The Definitive PED article

[OumaFan]

You can't convince someone that desperately, desperately, wants to believe.

I didn't read it, PEDs bore me, but I don't have to be convinced, its obvious that the type of tests Manny wants are those that allow you to get away with using.

[blegit]

Now that is definitive. Anybody who is a fan of boxing should appreciate this article. Boxing doesn't want clean itself up. And I'm talking about the people outside the ring who make money off of the people who are risking their health/life inside the ring. The last parts of that article is very interesting. Boxing is more concerned about the money than the safety of the sport. As dangerous as this sport is without cheating this is the state of where we are. And that last question of the article must be answered honestly and approached so. Does boxing really want to know?

[JazMerkin]

You can't convince someone that desperately, desperately, wants to believe.

I didn't read it, PEDs bore me, but I don't have to be convinced, its obvious that the type of tests Manny wants are those that allow you to get away with using.

Like I said, I'm not really bothered about Manny particularly, it was more the Adamek thread that got me thinking about how widespread it may be in the sport and what unbelievably shoddy testing procedures we have.

Regardless of the initial motivations behind it, it would be fantastic if the Mayweather-Mosley fight became a catalyst for boxing cleaning itself in this regard. There will always be bad scorecards and poor refereeing decisions, but it would be great if we could at least be confident that the sport's top fighters are clean.

[killersheep]

Great article and great points Jaz. I'll give a more insightful response when I'm back on my computer. The main crux of the difficulty of cleaning up the sport is those that directly profit and stand to lose their livelihood from stricter testing.

[Gandalf]

Good read. Away from the blame game, there can be no doubt that testing for PED's in boxing needs to be stepped up. Unlike other sports, boxing is a serious one where fists become weapons. It's dangerous, and for that reason alone we should not be allowing drugs cheats to slip through the net.

[Nameless]

The thing is: the rules about anti-doping probably date from an era where urine was way enough to detect most stuff of the era. Things changed well since then and bio-technology are upgrading lightspeed. TO keep with such improvement of techniques and produces, it would be just normal that the commission updates itself once in a while otherwise it ends up like now: obsolete rules for brand new techniques.

[JazMerkin]

Like the article & some of you guys have said, it really doesn't seem that boxing wants to clean itself up. Using Shane Mosley as an example we can see the problem. He was one of the biggest stars in the sport at the start of the 2000's, would those in Nevada or Califiornia really want to lose the income that his fights in their states brought in?

It also makes you look at boxers and wonder who is actually clean. It would be great if more of the top fighters started voluntarily bringing in the USADA style testing. The fact Mayweather is doing it, leaves me very confident that he at least isn't and hasn't been on anything. I still think that the majority probably aren't, but with the situation now, it's hard to be fully confident in saying someone definitely isn't.

[Bomp]

Like the article & some of you guys have said, it really doesn't seem that boxing wants to clean itself up. Using Shane Mosley as an example we can see the problem. He was one of the biggest stars in the sport at the start of the 2000's, would those in Nevada or Califiornia really want to lose the income that his fights in their states brought in?

It also makes you look at boxers and wonder who is actually clean. It would be great if more of the top fighters started voluntarily bringing in the USADA style testing. The fact Mayweather is doing it, leaves me very confident that he at least isn't and hasn't been on anything. I still think that the majority probably aren't, but with the situation now, it's hard to be fully confident in saying someone definitely isn't.

That's the main point in any discussion, likely due to opportunity and desire to do better that your talking about the majority. No reason to expect athletes who put on the gloves to be any more 'moral' than any other sport, and even with test intensive sport like athletics and cycling many are still being caught, and the sad fact is that the drug providers will always be a step ahead of the testers. The only 'fool proof' answer where no one is ever a suspect is to legalise it.

[JonnyFolds]

You can't convince someone that desperately, desperately, wants to believe.

I didn't read it, PEDs bore me, but I don't have to be convinced, its obvious that the type of tests Manny wants are those that allow you to get away with using.

Like I said, I'm not really bothered about Manny particularly, it was more the Adamek thread that got me thinking about how widespread it may be in the sport and what unbelievably shoddy testing procedures we have.

Regardless of the initial motivations behind it, it would be fantastic if the Mayweather-Mosley fight became a catalyst for boxing cleaning itself in this regard. There will always be bad scorecards and poor refereeing decisions, but it would be great if we could at least be confident that the sport's top fighters are clean.

The first response to your article responded exactly with what we we NOT trying to talk about here which is the Mayweather-Pacquiao breakdown. But, I guess this topic would have never come up without that instance. Thanks for the great read, Jaz. Good to know what is happening in sports these days.

I guess the other thing is, most fighters aren't banned, or forgotten after having something like this happen. Is there any question that Mosley will not get in the HOF? Baseball is completely writing off these guys. Canseco, McGuir, ARod, will NEVER get in their HOF.

[killersheep]

You can't convince someone that desperately, desperately, wants to believe.

I didn't read it, PEDs bore me, but I don't have to be convinced, its obvious that the type of tests Manny wants are those that allow you to get away with using.

Like I said, I'm not really bothered about Manny particularly, it was more the Adamek thread that got me thinking about how widespread it may be in the sport and what unbelievably shoddy testing procedures we have.

Regardless of the initial motivations behind it, it would be fantastic if the Mayweather-Mosley fight became a catalyst for boxing cleaning itself in this regard. There will always be bad scorecards and poor refereeing decisions, but it would be great if we could at least be confident that the sport's top fighters are clean.

The first response to your article responded exactly with what we we NOT trying to talk about here which is the Mayweather-Pacquiao breakdown. But, I guess this topic would have never come up without that instance. Thanks for the great read, Jaz. Good to know what is happening in sports these days.

I guess the other thing is, most fighters aren't banned, or forgotten after having something like this happen. Is there any question that Mosley will not get in the HOF? Baseball is completely writing off these guys. Canseco, McGuir, ARod, will NEVER get in their HOF.

Yeah there needs to be major reform to get all this together. Baseball has two organization that form a completely different equation than boxing.

1. Major League Baseball, they set uniform rules that cover all players (even though there are slightly different rules for the AL and NL)

2. Players Union, they represent the players demands.

These two organizations negotiate everything as two larger entities.

In boxing everything is individual, so there is not a set protocol for the rules, even what is and isn't illegal. I think a more standardizing organization is necessary for any meaningful reform to take place.

If an organization has rules it should be prepared to enforce them, this is just not the case as it stands now.

[Althugz]

While that is a great and comprehensive article, it is not only the sport of boxing that seemingly doesn't want to know what their athletes are on, but also the fans of certain fighters - They'd rather turn a blind eye to it and be in ignorant bliss.

Thanks for the effort Jaz, I just fear it is in vain for the blind who do not want to open their eyes to how rampant PED's are in the sport.

[fan johnny]

How many athletes have tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in the Olympics? - Sports and Drugs - ProCon.org

"Of the 21,579 drug tests conducted at the Summer Olympics from 1968-2008, there were 59 cases (0.27%) of doping violations. There have been 13 positive results (0.25%) from 5,264 tests conducted at the Winter Olympics between 1968 and 2006."

WADA and USADA use the blood tests that look for HGH have never caught a single athlete, while there also exist a urine test in production to trap the HGH. Both organizations have supported and put funds into the development of the test but have yet to use it.

Human Growth Hormone - World Anti-Doping Agency

If drug use is so widespread in sports as those that say anti-doping policies needs to be revised, do you really think the Olympic style testing from WADA and USADA is an appropriate model for any professional sports organization to follow when they have such a failed history? While there may be widespread use, why should boxing take advise from a drug expert with no background in sports or sport medicine? The appropriate experts are the nutritionist, trainers and conditioning coaches.

Rules are made for people that follow the rules. Those that don't, don't care what rules you use because they are not bound by them. If Anti-doping policies are going to make a difference in sports culture, then there has to be fundamental changes in the ethics of all sports, armature through professional. That is impossible.

Even if the rules are changed for more stringent testing procedures to catch users, it won't change the culture, It will only affect it's appearance.

The commission could be more positive in it's stance by promoting boxings biggest stars and taking the lead to show both fighters are 100% clean. By removing any doubts and speculation. The work ethic of both Mayweather and Pacquiao are perfect examples to young athletes of what can be achieved through hard work and determination.

[killersheep]

How many athletes have tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in the Olympics? - Sports and Drugs - ProCon.org

"Of the 21,579 drug tests conducted at the Summer Olympics from 1968-2008, there were 59 cases (0.27%) of doping violations. There have been 13 positive results (0.25%) from 5,264 tests conducted at the Winter Olympics between 1968 and 2006."

WADA and USADA use the blood tests that look for HGH have never caught a single athlete, while there also exist a urine test in production to trap the HGH. Both organizations have supported and put funds into the development of the test but have yet to use it.

Human Growth Hormone - World Anti-Doping Agency

If drug use is so widespread in sports as those that say anti-doping policies needs to be revised, do you really think the Olympic style testing from WADA and USADA is an appropriate model for any professional sports organization to follow when they have such a failed history? While there may be widespread use, why should boxing take advise from a drug expert with no background in sports or sport medicine? The appropriate experts are the nutritionist, trainers and conditioning coaches.

Rules are made for people that follow the rules. Those that don't, don't care what rules you use because they are not bound by them. If Anti-doping policies are going to make a difference in sports culture, then there has to be fundamental changes in the ethics of all sports, armature through professional. That is impossible.

Even if the rules are changed for more stringent testing procedures to catch users, it won't change the culture, It will only affect it's appearance.

The commission could be more positive in it's stance by promoting boxings biggest stars and taking the lead to show both fighters are 100% clean. By removing any doubts and speculation. The work ethic of both Mayweather and Pacquiao are perfect examples to young athletes of what can be achieved through hard work and determination.

Surely you can't be saying this is worse than the current system. No system is perfect, but why don't you provide the same statistics for boxing so we can see where it stands? One point of reference can't show direction or comparison which is what you are making here. You are either saying

A. The current system is more likely to catch athletes (i.e. be more useful to enforcing the rules)

or

B. The culture of the athletes will change by itself by maintaining the status quo.

Either way unless you can prove that the current system in boxing would do either A or B, then what you are saying makes a good case for further testing.

Would Olympic style testing be 100%? No, but don't you think enforcing random tests would change the culture you talked about? Also, what good are rules if you don't enforce them?

[Kirkland Laing]

The work ethic of both Mayweather and Pacquiao are perfect examples to young athletes of what can be achieved through hard work and determination.

Yes, they're both in the gym 365 days a year. Apart from when they're both making films, making records, or campaigning for political office. Oh wait!