The jab -- technically perfecting it (Help please)

[HerbM]

I initially responded a bit generally, but came back to re-read your excellent post Fran and want to bore in a bit deeper with some follow-up questions on some of your specific points....

Again, thanks everyone -- you have all assured me it isn't silly or a waste of time to study this carefully so I am still putting a lot of thought AND practice concentration (mostly on the heavy bag) into this.

Hey Herb

...As I see it, the basics of the jab are:

1. From the stance and on-guard position, the first action is a push from the front foot which in turn rotates the upper-body slightly so that the hips and shoulders will align with the opponent.

"push from the front foot...rotates the upper-body" must mean we are pushing to the OUTSIDE to turn our body inside, right?

We wouldn't be pushing ourselves back (with front foot) would we?

Hey Herb

2. As the rotation is taking place, the lead arm is thrust out, ensuring that the lead arm elbow follows the same line as the fist i.e. there is no lateral movement of the elbow at all, whatsoever!

I need to ask about a very picky detail since I may not be doing this perfectly: My elbo is NOT going off line for at least the first 90% of the jab stroke, but since the shoulder begins the rotation at the last inch or two of extension the elbow must (bio-mechanics) be offline VERY slightly at this end of the punch, right?

At this point, the hand is just starting to contact the target, so I am not talking about anything that would telegraph the punch, but merely using that should roll to try to add a few more pounds of force and a little more speed as the glove connects.

Hey Herb
...

4. The fist returns along the same line as before, returning to the ‘home’ position as per the stance.

I am thinking -- and ASKING you not arguing -- that the arm can better return if it is NOT pulled back precisely the same way it is extended, so (feel free to) correct me on the following:

By pulling the hand back a bit before dropping/unrolling the elbow you can get a mechanically and gravity advantage by having that elbow out a little on the return -- the advantage comes because the muscles to drop the elbow and pull it into the body (lats and even pects) are asymetrical with the muscles for lifting/extending it (mainly delts).

By letting that elbow bend out a little bit you can accelerate the elbow back INTO the body, and you get a retrieval advantage that isn't useful on the way out.

IF (big if) I am correct, this is a small by minor point, but doing this seems to be helping me retrieve my arm faster (and more reliably) with less effort, especially when I am tired from several rounds of hard bag work.

This way I am much less likely to do a partial return when trying to double or triple the jab, and the speed certainly seems to be greater (also, coach hasn't corrected my return since I started doing this but this might be only an accident of his attention to what I need most.)

Hey Herb

And some common faults:

1. There is an urge to try and hit too hard. The desire to throw the punch hard often results in the boxer’s weight transferring to the front leg. This has the effect of impairing the balance and making you very vulnerable to counter-attack. Remember, the jab will often be thrown as you move forward, so throwing the weight onto the front leg is very high risk!

I certainly get what you are saying about "punch too hard' -- there is a line past which putting more muscle (or giving up balance of course) just ruins the whole action.

Golfers see this all the time; you cannot make the ball go further by forcing it, you must rather hit it better.

I have been practicing the "front foot drop" since my first reading of Dempsey's book; but I am definitely NOT letting this throw me forward, merely picking up the foot and dropping back onto it (about an inch or two) while keeping most of my weight back as per my original stance.

This was my least confident point (#5) in my original post, but after reading Dempsey's recommendations, I am definitely practicing it to have this as a CHOICE.

This is NOT "falling into the punch" but rather falling back onto good balance, using that slight movement forward just at the moment of impact -- any sooner or any later and this subtle movement is totally wasted.

2. The punch is ‘telegraphed’, or tell-tale movement before the punch begins it’s journey. These movements are often the elbow lifting to the side or the fist dropping slightly, both of which are dead giveaways.

I am known (from Systema) for having no telegraph and being able to hit from odd angles or unexpectedly without even cocking, but I do want to test this with some sparring in boxing.

Systema practitioners actively practice what is called "short work" (being able to hit hard from in close) and "drop baiting" (leaving a hand in place as you move and then hitting from there). In drop baiting the hand seems to disappear (from the opponent's vision) as he tracks your body, and then comes out of nowhere because it became momentarily stationary while everything else was moving.

3. The boxer allows the punch to become an upper-body movement. Ensure that the rotation of the upper-body is generated by the push from the front leg.Much better to throw an accurate jab that lands rather than a 'powerful' jab that misses! ...

Absolutely. I am also focusing now on getting the (slight) upper body rotation from retracting the opposite shoulder rather than pushing out the punching arm.

I figured this out on my own somewhat, it was slightly mentioned in Dempsey's book, and then I found the other excellent thread here on these forums where it has been stated explicitly this way long ago.

I believe there are several reasons why retracting the opposite shoulder is so much better -- it avoids neuro-muscular confusion with so much going on in the punching arm/shoulder, it lets the BACK muscles get involved more easily, and it is easier to time this rotation so that it does not start with the punch but only happens near/at the moment of impact.

That rotation is going to be small, especially for a jab, and thus we don't want to waste, disperse, or use it until we are at the target. It can be powerful, but we want all that power at the end of the punch during contact.

My experience with this method (pulling opposite shoulder back at/near impact) is so far quite good on the bag and in shadow boxing.

I seem to be looser, more relaxed in shadow boxing and hitting stronger with less fatigue at the heavy bag.

Also that proper little rotation helps to retrieve and snap the hand when it unwinds so you again get back faster.

Finally, I think this all helps get a LITTLE push from the back right foot once contact is made -- you can feel the power line from back toe to knuckles more strongly.

I have a suspicion that leaving these little things to the very end of the jab, also allows them to be left out when just probing or measuring distance -- or even when a miss occurs. No contact, means less commitment since these little extras are all at the end. Maybe that is wrong, and will lead to 'pushing' the jab, but it is something I am consciously watching for both the good and the bad effects.



Again, I want your (everyone's) honest criticism and corrections -- I have NO ego invested in "being right" but am completely committed to perfecting the power jab.