question about martinez

[DaxxKahn]

Yep definately 3 acts in that fight

ACT I. Martinez uses his speed and lateral movement to potshot and control

ACT II. Pavlik counters jab over jab and lands a few strong rights.

ACT III. A cut, blinded, and tired Pavlik has nothing left to retaliate with, but hangs in for the duration, Martinez takes is back under control.

Daxx, how much credit do you Martinez for this win?

TBH I am not sure...I mean shit how can you not give a guy his deserved credit for winning the MW championship at a weight class not truly his but on the other hand....you have to think

What IF the cut did not happen?
What IF Pavlik had not been so inactive and fighting only his mandatories over the last year?
Was this the BEST version of Kelly?

I am tough on fighters when it comes to big wins who don't have a really impressive past resume.....I give them more credit for the big win after I see what they do next....If they rematch and Martinez wins again then no way not to say...Kelly had an off night and Martinez had a great one....

The middle rounds Martinez seemed to be baffled after Pavlik seemed to figure him out....Martinez had no plan B (Neither did Pavlik but)

Great win for Martinez but is he really nothing more then just speedy?

For being as fast as he is at 35, I have to give him a lot of credit he came in the smaller man against a very very strong Middleweight ( who also happened to be the champ ) Martinez has a pretty good record IMO, he straight up got robbed twice against Cintron, and did very very well against Williams. I mean I don't know who else at 160 or 154 he would have to fight?

If Pavlik chooses not to take the rematch clause who would he have to beat at 160 or 154 to prove his ability and improve his resume?

I personally don';t know why he would want to stay at MW just for that reason...154 is starting to pick up again...that is where the money is!!!....Like you said he is 35...not many years left this is the time to cash in while your name is hot....

I give him credit for being the smaller man (Maybe I said it in another thread) and like I said he came in from another weight class and beat the champion...Not a title holder but Champion....have to give credit for that but I am just not sold on him yet as a superstar....I mean someone posted on another thread or maybe this one that he is top 5 P4P?.....This win does not put him in the top 5

[killersheep]

TBH I am not sure...I mean shit how can you not give a guy his deserved credit for winning the MW championship at a weight class not truly his but on the other hand....you have to think

What IF the cut did not happen?
What IF Pavlik had not been so inactive and fighting only his mandatories over the last year?
Was this the BEST version of Kelly?

I am tough on fighters when it comes to big wins who don't have a really impressive past resume.....I give them more credit for the big win after I see what they do next....If they rematch and Martinez wins again then no way not to say...Kelly had an off night and Martinez had a great one....

The middle rounds Martinez seemed to be baffled after Pavlik seemed to figure him out....Martinez had no plan B (Neither did Pavlik but)

Great win for Martinez but is he really nothing more then just speedy?

For being as fast as he is at 35, I have to give him a lot of credit he came in the smaller man against a very very strong Middleweight ( who also happened to be the champ ) Martinez has a pretty good record IMO, he straight up got robbed twice against Cintron, and did very very well against Williams. I mean I don't know who else at 160 or 154 he would have to fight?

If Pavlik chooses not to take the rematch clause who would he have to beat at 160 or 154 to prove his ability and improve his resume?

I personally don';t know why he would want to stay at MW just for that reason...154 is starting to pick up again...that is where the money is!!!....Like you said he is 35...not many years left this is the time to cash in while your name is hot....

I give him credit for being the smaller man (Maybe I said it in another thread) and like I said he came in from another weight class and beat the champion...Not a title holder but Champion....have to give credit for that but I am just not sold on him yet as a superstar....I mean someone posted on another thread or maybe this one that he is top 5 P4P?.....This win does not put him in the top 5

Yeah I hear ya, it's pretty common for people to blow up fighters after a big win. The only guy in his weightclass range (I'm assuming 154-160) that I think really trumps him style vs. style is Foreman and that's because of his own speed and movement. Something that's really telling though are the faces of Martinez's last opponents. People keep saying he's hittable, he gets hit WAY too much and all that, but he's not marking maybe he has that Andrade gene?

Pavlik - 3 cuts caused by punches (Martinez mouse under one eye)

Williams - 2 cuts caused by punches (Martinez unmarked)

Cintron - Small cut, and swollen eye from punches (Martinez unmarked)

Bunema - both eyes almost swollen shut (Martinez unmarked)

[DaxxKahn]

For being as fast as he is at 35, I have to give him a lot of credit he came in the smaller man against a very very strong Middleweight ( who also happened to be the champ ) Martinez has a pretty good record IMO, he straight up got robbed twice against Cintron, and did very very well against Williams. I mean I don't know who else at 160 or 154 he would have to fight?

If Pavlik chooses not to take the rematch clause who would he have to beat at 160 or 154 to prove his ability and improve his resume?

I personally don';t know why he would want to stay at MW just for that reason...154 is starting to pick up again...that is where the money is!!!....Like you said he is 35...not many years left this is the time to cash in while your name is hot....

I give him credit for being the smaller man (Maybe I said it in another thread) and like I said he came in from another weight class and beat the champion...Not a title holder but Champion....have to give credit for that but I am just not sold on him yet as a superstar....I mean someone posted on another thread or maybe this one that he is top 5 P4P?.....This win does not put him in the top 5

Yeah I hear ya, it's pretty common for people to blow up fighters after a big win. The only guy in his weightclass range (I'm assuming 154-160) that I think really trumps him style vs. style is Foreman and that's because of his own speed and movement. Something that's really telling though are the faces of Martinez's last opponents. People keep saying he's hittable, he gets hit WAY too much and all that, but he's not marking maybe he has that Andrade gene?

Pavlik - 3 cuts caused by punches (Martinez mouse under one eye)

Williams - 2 cuts caused by punches (Martinez unmarked)

Cintron - Small cut, and swollen eye from punches (Martinez unmarked)

Bunema - both eyes almost swollen shut (Martinez unmarked)

I don't know of the punchstats of past fights but Pavlik barely hit him...Though he did have a mouse under one eye....He may be one of those guys who just don't swell and cut easily....

As for the damage he inflicts on others well we know he is not a hard hitter he only has like a 50% KO ratio but I think he is one of those guys who twist the glove as he lands...He is already on the backslide when he lands he avoids shots well...Like I said before I think that is what catches these guys off guard....BUT none of these guys are really fast either...I mentioned Foreman in another thread about facing Martinez....Not saying he would beat him just that Martinez would not get away with keeping his hands down all the time....I would love to see how he reacts to a fight where he is the slower man?

[killersheep]

I personally don';t know why he would want to stay at MW just for that reason...154 is starting to pick up again...that is where the money is!!!....Like you said he is 35...not many years left this is the time to cash in while your name is hot....

I give him credit for being the smaller man (Maybe I said it in another thread) and like I said he came in from another weight class and beat the champion...Not a title holder but Champion....have to give credit for that but I am just not sold on him yet as a superstar....I mean someone posted on another thread or maybe this one that he is top 5 P4P?.....This win does not put him in the top 5

Yeah I hear ya, it's pretty common for people to blow up fighters after a big win. The only guy in his weightclass range (I'm assuming 154-160) that I think really trumps him style vs. style is Foreman and that's because of his own speed and movement. Something that's really telling though are the faces of Martinez's last opponents. People keep saying he's hittable, he gets hit WAY too much and all that, but he's not marking maybe he has that Andrade gene?

Pavlik - 3 cuts caused by punches (Martinez mouse under one eye)

Williams - 2 cuts caused by punches (Martinez unmarked)

Cintron - Small cut, and swollen eye from punches (Martinez unmarked)

Bunema - both eyes almost swollen shut (Martinez unmarked)

I don't know of the punchstats of past fights but Pavlik barely hit him...Though he did have a mouse under one eye....He may be one of those guys who just don't swell and cut easily....

As for the damage he inflicts on others well we know he is not a hard hitter he only has like a 50% KO ratio but I think he is one of those guys who twist the glove as he lands...He is already on the backslide when he lands he avoids shots well...Like I said before I think that is what catches these guys off guard....BUT none of these guys are really fast either...I mentioned Foreman in another thread about facing Martinez....Not saying he would beat him just that Martinez would not get away with keeping his hands down all the time....I would love to see how he reacts to a fight where he is the slower man?

I think only Foreman and maybe Danny Jacobs fit that bill (as to making Martinez the slower man). I think he has shown he can be competitive at the elite level and is due credit for being what he is. If he had been in a more profitable market for longer in his career he certainly have had more opportunities to make his case. Fighters from Argentina usually have a hard time getting the big fights unless they are considered walkovers.

As for Martinez, I think he can hit plenty hard, but he tends to focus on conserving energy in everything he does, from his punch output to keeping his hands down, afterall how can you showboat when you're gassed? I don't really care if he's on a p4p list or not because that's completely subject unless you use Hughley's magic p4p formula, but equal in speculation is saying that couldn't have adjusted again later in the fight or that Pavlik wouldn't have gassed out, it's all speculation.

According to Compubox

Pavlik - 164/533 31% Total punches, 77/339 Jabs 23%, 87/194 Power punches 45%
Martinez - 230/686 34% Total Punches, 58/302 19%, 172/384 power punches 45%

New Page 1

[DaxxKahn]

Yeah I hear ya, it's pretty common for people to blow up fighters after a big win. The only guy in his weightclass range (I'm assuming 154-160) that I think really trumps him style vs. style is Foreman and that's because of his own speed and movement. Something that's really telling though are the faces of Martinez's last opponents. People keep saying he's hittable, he gets hit WAY too much and all that, but he's not marking maybe he has that Andrade gene?

Pavlik - 3 cuts caused by punches (Martinez mouse under one eye)

Williams - 2 cuts caused by punches (Martinez unmarked)

Cintron - Small cut, and swollen eye from punches (Martinez unmarked)

Bunema - both eyes almost swollen shut (Martinez unmarked)

I don't know of the punchstats of past fights but Pavlik barely hit him...Though he did have a mouse under one eye....He may be one of those guys who just don't swell and cut easily....

As for the damage he inflicts on others well we know he is not a hard hitter he only has like a 50% KO ratio but I think he is one of those guys who twist the glove as he lands...He is already on the backslide when he lands he avoids shots well...Like I said before I think that is what catches these guys off guard....BUT none of these guys are really fast either...I mentioned Foreman in another thread about facing Martinez....Not saying he would beat him just that Martinez would not get away with keeping his hands down all the time....I would love to see how he reacts to a fight where he is the slower man?

I think only Foreman and maybe Danny Jacobs fit that bill (as to making Martinez the slower man). I think he has shown he can be competitive at the elite level and is due credit for being what he is. If he had been in a more profitable market for longer in his career he certainly have had more opportunities to make his case. Fighters from Argentina usually have a hard time getting the big fights unless they are considered walkovers.

As for Martinez, I think he can hit plenty hard, but he tends to focus on conserving energy in everything he does, from his punch output to keeping his hands down, afterall how can you showboat when you're gassed? I don't really care if he's on a p4p list or not because that's completely subject unless you use Hughley's magic p4p formula, but equal in speculation is saying that couldn't have adjusted again later in the fight or that Pavlik wouldn't have gassed out, it's all speculation.

According to Compubox

Pavlik - 164/533 31% Total punches, 77/339 Jabs 23%, 87/194 Power punches 45%
Martinez - 230/686 34% Total Punches, 58/302 19%, 172/384 power punches 45%

New Page 1

We will see what happens...I can't say anything bad about the guy other then he is a bit arrogant and showboats too much but other then that he is a good fighter....I just need to see more of him at the top top tier...I only seen Cintron, Williams and Pavlik recently...I seen the loss to Maragrito and a few scattered fights here and there....I never thought much of Cintron, IMO Williams has trouble with mover and boxers like he did with Quintana the first time and the Pavlik fight was just crazy...Winning getting beat then the cut going his way.....

So I want to see him with a guy that is fair to him.....Size, close to speed, and who is a pure boxer....Though choices are slim....I actually would like to see him Vs Cotto....A guy who attacks the Body....I would like to see how Martinez does once his main asset is taken away....How is he when he has to slow down and is in a position he cant fight with his hands down so low....

[killersheep]

I don't know of the punchstats of past fights but Pavlik barely hit him...Though he did have a mouse under one eye....He may be one of those guys who just don't swell and cut easily....

As for the damage he inflicts on others well we know he is not a hard hitter he only has like a 50% KO ratio but I think he is one of those guys who twist the glove as he lands...He is already on the backslide when he lands he avoids shots well...Like I said before I think that is what catches these guys off guard....BUT none of these guys are really fast either...I mentioned Foreman in another thread about facing Martinez....Not saying he would beat him just that Martinez would not get away with keeping his hands down all the time....I would love to see how he reacts to a fight where he is the slower man?

I think only Foreman and maybe Danny Jacobs fit that bill (as to making Martinez the slower man). I think he has shown he can be competitive at the elite level and is due credit for being what he is. If he had been in a more profitable market for longer in his career he certainly have had more opportunities to make his case. Fighters from Argentina usually have a hard time getting the big fights unless they are considered walkovers.

As for Martinez, I think he can hit plenty hard, but he tends to focus on conserving energy in everything he does, from his punch output to keeping his hands down, afterall how can you showboat when you're gassed? I don't really care if he's on a p4p list or not because that's completely subject unless you use Hughley's magic p4p formula, but equal in speculation is saying that couldn't have adjusted again later in the fight or that Pavlik wouldn't have gassed out, it's all speculation.

According to Compubox

Pavlik - 164/533 31% Total punches, 77/339 Jabs 23%, 87/194 Power punches 45%
Martinez - 230/686 34% Total Punches, 58/302 19%, 172/384 power punches 45%

New Page 1

We will see what happens...I can't say anything bad about the guy other then he is a bit arrogant and showboats too much but other then that he is a good fighter....I just need to see more of him at the top top tier...I only seen Cintron, Williams and Pavlik recently...I seen the loss to Maragrito and a few scattered fights here and there....I never thought much of Cintron, IMO Williams has trouble with mover and boxers like he did with Quintana the first time and the Pavlik fight was just crazy...Winning getting beat then the cut going his way.....

So I want to see him with a guy that is fair to him.....Size, close to speed, and who is a pure boxer....Though choices are slim....I actually would like to see him Vs Cotto....A guy who attacks the Body....I would like to see how Martinez does once his main asset is taken away....How is he when he has to slow down and is in a position he cant fight with his hands down so low....

Fair enough, maybe the Cotto/Foreman winner can fight Martinez? Either way those guys both have something to offer him in terms of challenge.