How good could Zab have been... if?

[killersheep]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

Actually let's do that. But we'd need a seperate thread for that.

Stats aren't everything like I keep saying. This ain't about talent, it's about mentality. And Kobe has a greater winners mentality then LeBron does. Just as Floyd has a better winners mentality then Zab does. You keep bringing up stats and I keep saying and I'll say it again, stats arent everything. I compare Zab to LeBron in their mentality. LeBron will own the stats I keep telling you that. But his mentality isn't that of a great. And if Kobe was on the Cavs it would be completely different, his stats would go up and on the Lakers lebrons would go down. Derek Fisher said it best, the triangle offense is completely different and it's in a controlled offense where everyone is involved if you put Kobe on another team in a customary offense he'd average 40 points an night. If you put Kobe Bryant in the Cavs offense he'd score much more. And if you put LeBron in the Lakers offense he'd score less. That's why Im saying it isn't about stats. It's about who wants it more when the games on the line.

here's a video called "Kobe Bryant most clutch airballs in NBA memories"

I know stats stats stats...............duct tape aside though stats show unbiased results. Lebron has a bad game, that doesn't mean he falls apart like Judah has in championship rounds.

here is a vid on LeBron about the game 5

So can I infer from your response that Bryant has not choked in a clutch situation?

[killersheep]

Man it's definitely a monday, Arguing with Majesty over trivial comparisons, waiting for him to reply while he keeps revising his history.

[Majesty]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

Actually let's do that. But we'd need a seperate thread for that.

Stats aren't everything like I keep saying. This ain't about talent, it's about mentality. And Kobe has a greater winners mentality then LeBron does. Just as Floyd has a better winners mentality then Zab does. You keep bringing up stats and I keep saying and I'll say it again, stats arent everything. I compare Zab to LeBron in their mentality. LeBron will own the stats I keep telling you that. But his mentality isn't that of a great. And if Kobe was on the Cavs it would be completely different, his stats would go up and on the Lakers lebrons would go down. Derek Fisher said it best, the triangle offense is completely different and it's in a controlled offense where everyone is involved if you put Kobe on another team in a customary offense he'd average 40 points an night. If you put Kobe Bryant in the Cavs offense he'd score much more. And if you put LeBron in the Lakers offense he'd score less. That's why Im saying it isn't about stats. It's about who wants it more when the games on the line.

here's a video called "Kobe Bryant most clutch airballs in NBA memories"

I know stats stats stats...............duct tape aside though stats show unbiased results. Lebron has a bad game, that doesn't mean he falls apart like Judah has in championship rounds.

here is a vid on LeBron about the game 5

So can I infer from your response that Bryant has not choked in a clutch situation?

Of course he has. How often this season though? and how often in the playoffs in pivotal games lately has he?



Thats just this year. Ask yourself this, at the end of the game hwo would you rather give the ball to, Kobe Bryant, or LeBron James.

[killersheep]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

Actually let's do that. But we'd need a seperate thread for that.

Stats aren't everything like I keep saying. This ain't about talent, it's about mentality. And Kobe has a greater winners mentality then LeBron does. Just as Floyd has a better winners mentality then Zab does. You keep bringing up stats and I keep saying and I'll say it again, stats arent everything. I compare Zab to LeBron in their mentality. LeBron will own the stats I keep telling you that. But his mentality isn't that of a great. And if Kobe was on the Cavs it would be completely different, his stats would go up and on the Lakers lebrons would go down. Derek Fisher said it best, the triangle offense is completely different and it's in a controlled offense where everyone is involved if you put Kobe on another team in a customary offense he'd average 40 points an night. If you put Kobe Bryant in the Cavs offense he'd score much more. And if you put LeBron in the Lakers offense he'd score less. That's why Im saying it isn't about stats. It's about who wants it more when the games on the line.

here's a video called "Kobe Bryant most clutch airballs in NBA memories"

I know stats stats stats...............duct tape aside though stats show unbiased results. Lebron has a bad game, that doesn't mean he falls apart like Judah has in championship rounds.

here is a vid on LeBron about the game 5

So can I infer from your response that Bryant has not choked in a clutch situation?

Of course he has. How often this season though? and how often in the playoffs in pivotal games lately has he?



Thats just this year. Ask yourself this, at the end of the game hwo would you rather give the ball to, Kobe Bryant, or LeBron James.

Game 2 against the Celtics, hows that? Recent enough?

[killersheep]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

Actually let's do that. But we'd need a seperate thread for that.

Stats aren't everything like I keep saying. This ain't about talent, it's about mentality. And Kobe has a greater winners mentality then LeBron does. Just as Floyd has a better winners mentality then Zab does. You keep bringing up stats and I keep saying and I'll say it again, stats arent everything. I compare Zab to LeBron in their mentality. LeBron will own the stats I keep telling you that. But his mentality isn't that of a great. And if Kobe was on the Cavs it would be completely different, his stats would go up and on the Lakers lebrons would go down. Derek Fisher said it best, the triangle offense is completely different and it's in a controlled offense where everyone is involved if you put Kobe on another team in a customary offense he'd average 40 points an night. If you put Kobe Bryant in the Cavs offense he'd score much more. And if you put LeBron in the Lakers offense he'd score less. That's why Im saying it isn't about stats. It's about who wants it more when the games on the line.

here's a video called "Kobe Bryant most clutch airballs in NBA memories"

I know stats stats stats...............duct tape aside though stats show unbiased results. Lebron has a bad game, that doesn't mean he falls apart like Judah has in championship rounds.

here is a vid on LeBron about the game 5

So can I infer from your response that Bryant has not choked in a clutch situation?

Of course he has. How often this season though? and how often in the playoffs in pivotal games lately has he?



Thats just this year. Ask yourself this, at the end of the game hwo would you rather give the ball to, Kobe Bryant, or LeBron James.

Game 2 against the Celtics, hows that? Recent enough?

Here's an interview with Kobe explaining how he just didn't get it done.

"We gave them too many easy baskets and blew too many defensive assignments. That’s it." - Kobe Bryant

Kobe Bryant’s post-Game 2 interview - Lakers blog : The Orange County Register

[Majesty]

Majesty Lebron rarely chokes, if you take him off the Cavs then you have a team the Indiana Pacers could beat in a 7 game series.

Lebron holds imo the single most dominant performance I've ever seen in a team sport playoff game, with that game 6 performance against Detroit. Judah beating Spinks can't touch that The Cavs lose despite Lebron not because of him, how was the Kobe show doing in the couple years after Shaq left before they got Gasol? When has Lebron ever tanked as hard as Kobe did against the Suns a few years ago?

You're talking utter bullshit here, EVERYONE knows Lebron is one of the more tenacious players in the league and in typical starr fashion, you misrepresent things to make your point.

Lebron is one of the 3 best players in the league. He has great talent and is a good player but mentally he doesn't have the make up of a great. Like I said he is made for the regular season. It's wonderful he has all these great performances. But you know, Dominique Wilkins also one of the greatest players of the last 25 years had great scoring and statistical performances, but it didn't get his team a ring.

There is no doubt LeBron has talent. But when it comes time to step up, and get your team a win, in a crucial moment he doesn't. He showed it in the Orlando series last year, and he showed it in the Boston series this year. I'm not the only one who thinks this.

NBA writer skip bayless said it best. "he is a prince james crumbling under the pressure of king james which was put on him."

You can say all you want about how great and tenacious he is. But the fact of the matter is, he has been in the league nearly 8 years, he has only won the eastern conference once. Until he wins a ring he will always be underachieving the accolades put on him since the beginning of his career. it wasnt even him that was saving them in this post season, it was his point guard Mo Williams. In game 1 they were down by a lot, Mo Williams came on in the 4th quarter with about 12 straight points which brought it back for the Cavs and got them that victory. In game 6 the game Lebron got his triple double, Mo Williams made 21 points in the first half to keep the game close while LeBron was absent.


So you can say what you want about how great LeBron is, but if his greatest claim to fame is winning the Eastern Conference once, then he is underachieving and not the "great" everyone tries to make him be.

Let's do some comparisons with Kobe Bryant, which for the sake of argument I will ASSUME (duct tape attached) you consider to not be a choke artist

Post season average per game
Points
Lebron: 29.1
Kobe: 29.0

Field Goal %
Lebron: .502
Kobe: .477

3 point %
Lebron: .400
Kobe: .398

Turn overs
Lebron: 3.8
Kobe: 3.4

So if averaging 1 extra turnover in every 3rd game constitutes dominance from choke artist, I don't know where your comparison holds water man.

I keep saying that LeBron is king of the stats. he can lead in stats which is fine, but Kobe is in the finals and LeBron isn't. Why? Because Kobe didn't get 9 turnovers in the key game of the series. Stats don't factor in the one thing that makes you great, clutch. Kobe in the clutch time steps up, whether he scores 30 or whether he scores 21. When LeBron is in the clutch, he turns over the ball or he misses. That's the point im making. His mentality isn't that of a great. LeBron's stats are great, but if stats meant everything he would have 4 rings by now. What those stats won't tell you is in game 5 a very important game against the Celtics at home, just two games away from looking unstoppable in game 3 where he scored 21 points in the first quarter!! He goes to this game.. and at home, the series is tied 2-2, and the Cavs have the best home season record so they are expected to win especially if LeBron steps up, so LeBron goes into such an important game and.. he shoots the ball only 14 times, makes and makes 3 of them finishing with 15 points and the Cavs lose. Alright people say he had a bad game that he will really really step up in game 6 and show his greatness like he did in game 3. So he goes into game 6, he gets his triple double, but he also has 9 turnovers in key points of the game where he was needed to step up. I just don't know of a great that goes from looking so unstoppable and so great in one game to not doing anything, it's like a switch went off in his head. It's confusing.

Kobe has the MOST turnovers of any NBA player in the playoffs this postseason and has had 4 games with 5 or more turnovers himself the difference in reality is that Kobe is not the Lakers and LeBron is not the Cavs, this is a team sport. If Kobe was on the Cavaliers and Lebron was on the Lakers the entire situation would be completely different.

lets go apples to apples so far, we can keep this going throughout the finals if you want. That way we can compare when the "clutch" games come up.

versus Celtics

Game 1
Points
Lebron: 35
Kobe: 30

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 1

Turnovers
Lebron: 2
Kobe: 4

Game 2
points
Lebron: 24
Kobe: 21

Steals
Lebron: 3
Kobe: 4

Turnovers
Lebron: 5
Kobe: 5

Actually let's do that. But we'd need a seperate thread for that.

Stats aren't everything like I keep saying. This ain't about talent, it's about mentality. And Kobe has a greater winners mentality then LeBron does. Just as Floyd has a better winners mentality then Zab does. You keep bringing up stats and I keep saying and I'll say it again, stats arent everything. I compare Zab to LeBron in their mentality. LeBron will own the stats I keep telling you that. But his mentality isn't that of a great. And if Kobe was on the Cavs it would be completely different, his stats would go up and on the Lakers lebrons would go down. Derek Fisher said it best, the triangle offense is completely different and it's in a controlled offense where everyone is involved if you put Kobe on another team in a customary offense he'd average 40 points an night. If you put Kobe Bryant in the Cavs offense he'd score much more. And if you put LeBron in the Lakers offense he'd score less. That's why Im saying it isn't about stats. It's about who wants it more when the games on the line.

here's a video called "Kobe Bryant most clutch airballs in NBA memories"

I know stats stats stats...............duct tape aside though stats show unbiased results. Lebron has a bad game, that doesn't mean he falls apart like Judah has in championship rounds.

here is a vid on LeBron about the game 5

So can I infer from your response that Bryant has not choked in a clutch situation?

Of course he has. How often this season though? and how often in the playoffs in pivotal games lately has he?



Thats just this year. Ask yourself this, at the end of the game hwo would you rather give the ball to, Kobe Bryant, or LeBron James.

Game 2 against the Celtics, hows that? Recent enough?

Here's an interview with Kobe explaining how he just didn't get it done.

"We gave them too many easy baskets and blew too many defensive assignments. That’s it." - Kobe Bryant

Kobe Bryant’s post-Game 2 interview - Lakers blog : The Orange County Register

Kobe doesn't complain about the refs, thats Phil's job However on ESPN today and on Around the Horn etc all they were talking about were how the refs tried to overly take over the game and gave them a lot of critisism, just because Kobe took the high road and decided to say "thats it" and "I dont expect to pick up 5 fouls next game" doesn't mean the calls weren't bad.

The only issue i really have with the Lakers is, with as many good players as they have, they depend on Kobe to bail them out too much.

Like with the Cavs lets say LeBron is having a bad game, usually someone else steps up, Jamison goes and has a good game, or Mo Williams goes on and has a good game, LeBron's supporting cast does what they are supposed to do whenever LeBron isn't on the floor.

However with the Lakers, once Kobe leaves you expect all these guys like Gasol, Odom, Fisher etc to step up but it doesn't seem to flow or happen unless Kobe checks himself back in. That's pretty much what I saw last night.

A lot seems to change in a year. Last year they were saying Lakers had the best bench in basketball and that was the reason for their success. And they said Cleveland had a weak bench and thats why they failed.

This year the Lakers only change one player. And then the opinion goes the Lakers don't have a good bench and that the Cavaliers had the best bench and basketball and were the favorites for a title.

A lot seems to change in a year.