Is this the nail in the coffin of Pac/Mayweather?

[Gandalf]

I just don't see how Mayweather can keep Pac honest. Manny is more explosive, just as fast, punches harder and throws so much more. It's a fight I just struggle to see Mayweather winning. Pac just has too much of everything.

I think deep down, Mayweather probably knows this and seeing what we saw here, he is unlikely to want to step up and face this beast any time soon.

Mayweather signing a contract to fight Pac will in itself earn my respect. But I do think Manny needs to agree to drug testing with no windows. The fight should also be at 147.

It's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.

In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.

I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.

Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....

I don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.

I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.

It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.

[zhubin]

I just don't see how Mayweather can keep Pac honest. Manny is more explosive, just as fast, punches harder and throws so much more. It's a fight I just struggle to see Mayweather winning. Pac just has too much of everything.

I think deep down, Mayweather probably knows this and seeing what we saw here, he is unlikely to want to step up and face this beast any time soon.

Mayweather signing a contract to fight Pac will in itself earn my respect. But I do think Manny needs to agree to drug testing with no windows. The fight should also be at 147.

It's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.

In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.

I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.

Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....

I don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.

I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.

It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.

Miles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.

[Gandalf]

I just don't see how Mayweather can keep Pac honest. Manny is more explosive, just as fast, punches harder and throws so much more. It's a fight I just struggle to see Mayweather winning. Pac just has too much of everything.

I think deep down, Mayweather probably knows this and seeing what we saw here, he is unlikely to want to step up and face this beast any time soon.

Mayweather signing a contract to fight Pac will in itself earn my respect. But I do think Manny needs to agree to drug testing with no windows. The fight should also be at 147.

It's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.

In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.

I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.

Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....

I don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.

I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.

It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.

Miles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.

The same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.

It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.

You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.

Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.

Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.

[Althugz]

Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.

However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.

Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.

Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.

[sleepless]

Whether it will happen or not.. one thing is for sure, floyd or anyone else who literally throws a punch (unlike clottey the human punching bag) against manny pacquiao will not look pretty at the end of the fight. whether you win or not, manny pacquiao will make sure you will walk through hell with him.

[UKPH]

Also Floyd Jr also aged a bit, the rock hit by Mosley tells everything, the longer the fight time with Pac ill consider his reflexes/stamina is in downside, asked RJJr. or Mosley :d.

Still Floyd cant be underestimated he can still prove time and time again one of the best in business. still hoping can be made early 2011.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.

However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.

Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.

Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.

You don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?

[Majesty]

Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.

However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.

Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.

Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.

You don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?

I have to admit, the way Oscar did it was a lot more impressive tbh.

[hardcore_crash]

+1 Oscar doesn't get the respect he deserves.
His competition was amazing and he liked to fight the best.

[miron_lang]

Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.

However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.

Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.

Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.

You don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?

I have to admit, the way Oscar did it was a lot more impressive tbh.

Sarcasm?

Bhop's liver shot fake or not was more impressive? Im just validating mate im almost sure its a joke

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.

However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.

Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.

Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.

You don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?

I have to admit, the way Oscar did it was a lot more impressive tbh.

I won't argue with you on this. But Oscar would have tried to go through more weight divisions than what he had achieved, even if it involved a catchweight, if he could. But he couldn't. What he achieved is the extent of his limitation.

So, don't you think Manny going up that much weight and still performing par excellence is in itself a feat?

[TitoFan]

Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.

However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.

Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.

Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.

You don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?

I have to admit, the way Oscar did it was a lot more impressive tbh.

I hope you're not counting his stint at middleweight... a gift against Felix Sturm and a disgraceful grazing liver shot flop against Hopkins. Shouldn't even COUNT middleweight. That was clearly strictly for record-setting purposes.... nothing else.

[NUCLEAR BULL]

guys mayweather doesnt wish to fight anyone who poses a real threat to his ZERO!!!!, he never fought cotto, margarito, pac or a better version of mosley when they were all knocking at his door.....he instead fought a limited hatton then a smaller slowed marquez.....stateing that everyone wanted him to fight marquez because marquez is p4p best hahaha.......he fought shane once shane was on his longest inactive period of his career and nearly 40, even then shane nearly ko'd him. he fought a downward oscar with stamina problems and lessing speed.....quite frankly the last 3-4 years he's taken the lesser options, the fights where he's big fav to win......when all around him there where hungry, tough, dangerous challengers......he does a great job of not taking the fights that carry a tough nights works where its close to a 50/50 call......at this stage now even if he fights pac and wins i still hold pac higher in the all tim list

[zhubin]

guys mayweather doesnt wish to fight anyone who poses a real threat to his ZERO!!!!, he never fought cotto, margarito, pac or a better version of mosley when they were all knocking at his door.....he instead fought a limited hatton then a smaller slowed marquez.....stateing that everyone wanted him to fight marquez because marquez is p4p best hahaha.......he fought shane once shane was on his longest inactive period of his career and nearly 40, even then shane nearly ko'd him. he fought a downward oscar with stamina problems and lessing speed.....quite frankly the last 3-4 years he's taken the lesser options, the fights where he's big fav to win......when all around him there where hungry, tough, dangerous challengers......he does a great job of not taking the fights that carry a tough nights works where its close to a 50/50 call......at this stage now even if he fights pac and wins i still hold pac higher in the all tim list

You can pick holes in Manny's recent fights as well. He fought an already downtrodden Hatton...a Hatton who was already dismantled by Floyd earlier. He fought a past it and weight drained Oscar...the same Oscar who Floyd fought earlier at 154 and was more of a live body. He fought a mentally and physically damaged Cotto...a fighter who never truly recovered form the illegal beat down from Margo. He fought one of the most punch shy fighters in Clottey. And last night he fought a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater...who already is mentally weakened after his whole illegal wraps thing. He did most of this at catch weights...to insure that his already past it opponents would be further weakened. No question he would give Floyd a great fight...but Floyd would do what Marquez did to Pac...except 100 times better. Stop drinking the kool aid.

[UKPH]

guys mayweather doesnt wish to fight anyone who poses a real threat to his ZERO!!!!, he never fought cotto, margarito, pac or a better version of mosley when they were all knocking at his door.....he instead fought a limited hatton then a smaller slowed marquez.....stateing that everyone wanted him to fight marquez because marquez is p4p best hahaha.......he fought shane once shane was on his longest inactive period of his career and nearly 40, even then shane nearly ko'd him. he fought a downward oscar with stamina problems and lessing speed.....quite frankly the last 3-4 years he's taken the lesser options, the fights where he's big fav to win......when all around him there where hungry, tough, dangerous challengers......he does a great job of not taking the fights that carry a tough nights works where its close to a 50/50 call......at this stage now even if he fights pac and wins i still hold pac higher in the all tim list

You can pick holes in Manny's recent fights as well. He fought an already downtrodden Hatton...a Hatton who was already dismantled by Floyd earlier. He fought a past it and weight drained Oscar...the same Oscar who Floyd fought earlier at 154 and was more of a live body. He fought a mentally and physically damaged Cotto...a fighter who never truly recovered form the illegal beat down from Margo. He fought one of the most punch shy fighters in Clottey. And last night he fought a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater...who already is mentally weakened after his whole illegal wraps thing. He did most of this at catch weights...to insure that his already past it opponents would be further weakened. No question he would give Floyd a great fight...but Floyd would do what Marquez did to Pac...except 100 times better. Stop drinking the kool aid.

I can agree with you that. But Hatton was best undefeated at 140 not 147 and ODLH was out of scope for Pacquiao on that time he was a 135lbs out of his league. As far i remember ODLH called and challenged Pac, who is Pacquiao on that time to call an ODLH?.

Margo was best at 147 he was beaten bu Daniel Santos @ 154 couple yrs ago thats hes on welters for almost of his career. As somebody said on other forum a 3 lbs leeway from his last best at 147. Still Marg accepted @ 150 and looks good before the fight.

What ever youd said Floyd Jr never a Cotto, Marga, Clottey.. Pac a 135 ish fighter who fights a catch 147lbr fighter fought IMO far more dangerous than a 38 year old easily stamina drained Mosley, 135 lbr Marquez, or a Baldomir.

Floyd is absulotely the best till now no doubt but the longer the much awaited fight between him and Pac @ 147. I'l give a slight edge over speed & power, activity and age with Pac while technical dept il go with Floyd Jr. 50/50 for both.