Is this the nail in the coffin of Pac/Mayweather?

[Gandalf]

I just don't see how Mayweather can keep Pac honest. Manny is more explosive, just as fast, punches harder and throws so much more. It's a fight I just struggle to see Mayweather winning. Pac just has too much of everything.

I think deep down, Mayweather probably knows this and seeing what we saw here, he is unlikely to want to step up and face this beast any time soon.

Mayweather signing a contract to fight Pac will in itself earn my respect. But I do think Manny needs to agree to drug testing with no windows. The fight should also be at 147.

It's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.

In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.

I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.

Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....

I don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.

I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.

It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.

Miles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.

The same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.

It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.

You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.

Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.

Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.

s"I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century." hahahaha! wow! i guess there is no point arguing with you then. keep drinking the kool aid.

I am officially a Pac nuthugger. I am totally high on the guy.

[Gandalf]

Mosley was gassed after two against Floyd and I would agree that it was all down to Floyd adjusting had it not been for the Mora performance as well. Mosley looked gassed for half of that too.

Pacquiao doesn't gas, he just keeps that pressure on you. It would be harder to land clean against Floyd, but Floyd isn't superman. Hatton was keeping him semi honest for half the fight and Hatton isn't a patch on Manny. Manny has two hands, is faster, stronger, has better chin. And good point Diz, he's also a southpaw, which Mayweather hasn't always looked the most comfortable against.

He is a monster. He will destroy you if you go to war with him and he will outwork you if you cover up and wait. He's just too good right now.

[KananKrus]

It very well could be... the last nail to seal the doom for this purported matchup. A fight like this, the Pac performance, could evince a few shakes and and a few rattle-balls for the one in dire effort of keeping the "0", and the fight every fans dreamabout' may very well be as pronounced as ever, a "Maynever"!

There is so much wasted energy in the air in giving PBF Jr the justification, all hollowed to everyone but they, in avoiding a fight with Pac. Everyone needs to just remove the pass they voluntarily provide to coax this guy to prove his perceived greatness in the ring! Where it really holds true!

Come off the imaginary pedestal Floyd Jr., sign and just fight...

I'd go the Roy Jones Jr route to give a "horse's mouth" perspective on this topic.

RJJ on....
Manny Pacquiao vs Floyd Mayweather Latest News

[NuthaPug]

All the points on each side of the conversation are what make this fight so compelling. The answer is only in one place - in the ring.

Both are superb athletes. Floyd's timing, balance and boxing intelligence give him he advantage, is my opinion.

As always, and as one poster has already recognized - a victory over Floyd for Pac would be huge for Pac and for boxing history. A victory over Manny by Mayweather ... ho hum, what did you expect?

That is an indication, if not a measure, of a sort of subconscious recognition by the boxing world that we do take Floyd's greatness for granted. All the conversation about who can beat him, and how he can be beaten, is rather academic.

I'm not saying Floy'd unbeatable. Not at all.

I'm saying that Floyd is the guy. Hope to see him prove it against Pac ... in the ring.

[:::PSL:::]

I just don't see how Mayweather can keep Pac honest. Manny is more explosive, just as fast, punches harder and throws so much more. It's a fight I just struggle to see Mayweather winning. Pac just has too much of everything.

I think deep down, Mayweather probably knows this and seeing what we saw here, he is unlikely to want to step up and face this beast any time soon.

Mayweather signing a contract to fight Pac will in itself earn my respect. But I do think Manny needs to agree to drug testing with no windows. The fight should also be at 147.

It's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.

In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.

I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.

Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....

I don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.

I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.

It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.

Miles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.

The same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.

It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.

You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.

Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.

Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.

s"I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century." hahahaha! wow! i guess there is no point arguing with you then. keep drinking the kool aid.

I am officially a Pac nuthugger. I am totally high on the guy.

Welcome to the club.