So why did JMM fight Chris John for 30k instead of Pac for 750k in '05?

[Violent Demise]

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that

I understand that Marquez held two belts at that time... but with Pac, there was never a need for him to win belts in order for him to get big fights.

The belts only became important for Pac once he was in the pursuit of attaining the novelty of having the most belts in multi-weight categories. Marquez' belts were meaningless to Pacquiao, and actually, Michael Buffet introduced Pac as the recognized people's featherweight champion (whatever that means).

After the announcement of the draw, Buffet even mentioned that both protagonists keep their own respective belts. By all intents and purposes, Pac was the draw, and "the one" being groomed to further boxing, than it was the other way around. Marquez, if he had won, would have easily taken Pac's place and possibly a match win against Morales', Pac's prospective next opponent, could have cemented his niche in the pay-per-view market.

Likewise, at this point in time, it was Marquez who needed to painstakingly add aggressiveness to his staple counter style fighting, not only to get this fight hitched against hot prospect Pacquiao, but also in order for him to increase marketability for future interests.

Getting back, JMM was the minor star in this affair, only his huge ego made him think otherwise. This ego up to now, is also part of the reason that JMM rubs Pac the wrong way. Pac in a poor attempt at humor, once said that the reason Marquez lost to PBF despite his drinking his own pee was because he didn't eat his poo to go with it! LOL. Obviously the attempt at humor had pangs of viciousness to it that is almost always less revealed in public.

So the crown meant nothing really if any of neither Pac nor JMM had the bigger thing in mind for a juicier progression into the future. The win was the most coveted in order to stake the bigger claim in the PPV arena in the sport.

Hence, a rematch was first and foremost!

That is if you get the drift...

Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

[KananKrus]

Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

You and your foul language gets you nowhere with civilized forumers here, when you have nothing of substance to impart, you resort to abusive language. This is an unacceptable behavior you are exhibiting!

And you having not been given notice, is amazing, since somewhere in your bloodline is someone decent to have curbed your abrasive nature. Seems like aggressive behavior is your only attempt at relevance on some topics, your only stab to contributing for the exchange of ideas... put a lid on it!

Somewhere along the line a problem will come your way and not at all times will your computer keys do the fighting for you!

Flip is a racial term, by addressing people with that derogatory term you have crossed the line, therefore you should be sanctioned or better yet, banned! Censorship calls for it, and moderators should only see it fit to do so otherwise, you and your ilk will someday run roughshod of a decent forum like this.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Yep, Flip is a derogatory racial term. Since when has this forum allowed such? If nothing is done about this, it may give the readers the impression that certain derogatory racial remarks are allowed in here.

[hardcore_crash]

I see it's that time of the month in here....

[JazMerkin]

Yep, Flip is a derogatory racial term. Since when has this forum allowed such? If nothing is done about this, it may give the readers the impression that certain derogatory racial remarks are allowed in here.

Can you explain how it is a derogatory racial term? I'm not trying to take the piss, but the only explanation I've ever heard was that it means crazy or something in your language. I'm not trying to take the piss here, I am actually curious as to the etymology behind the word?

[miron_lang]

Can you explain how it is a derogatory racial term? I'm not trying to take the piss, but the only explanation I've ever heard was that it means crazy or something in your language. I'm not trying to take the piss here, I am actually curious as to the etymology behind the word?

Here in the Philippines. 'Flip' means someone who became Psychiatrically ill because of drugs.

Im not sure how they define it in the US or anywhere else.

[Memphis]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

[JazMerkin]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

Let's face it, just because people take offence doesn't mean it is necessarily racist, so I wanted to know what it meant as I couldn't find anything that really explained why.

I take offence to things people say on here in context of my own 'race', but I just generally ignore it, because most times people don't realize they're doing it and it's not maliciously intended (I'm not saying whether VD's is or not). Anyway I was curious as to how this term was racially derogatory, whether it was something the Spanish used to use or something.

[Memphis]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

Let's face it, just because people take offence doesn't mean it is necessarily racist, so I wanted to know what it meant as I couldn't find anything that really explained why.

I take offence to things people say on here in context of my own 'race', but I just generally ignore it, because most times people don't realize they're doing it and it's not maliciously intended (I'm not saying whether VD's is or not). Anyway I was curious as to how this term was racially derogatory, whether it was something the Spanish used to use or something.

I think VD's acceptance that it was or is unacceptable is proof enough that it wasnt said in jest. Agreed we cant stamp on everything that someone takes offence at, but if its race or colour we have to do something, its one of two lines you dont cross here.

[Violent Demise]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

Let's face it, just because people take offence doesn't mean it is necessarily racist, so I wanted to know what it meant as I couldn't find anything that really explained why.

I take offence to things people say on here in context of my own 'race', but I just generally ignore it, because most times people don't realize they're doing it and it's not maliciously intended (I'm not saying whether VD's is or not). Anyway I was curious as to how this term was racially derogatory, whether it was something the Spanish used to use or something.

The term isn't derogatory. Far from it. Lets be real here. Whoever finds it offensive can't even give a reason why it's a offensive. You know why? Cuz it's not. Filipinos are called Flips cuz that's what they are. It's like calling a Mexican a Mex. A Salvadorian a Salvie. It's a fucking abbreviation of the word. It's not a racist term. And I know this for a fact. It came straight from the muthafukka who lives 2 houses down. He comes straight from Zamboanga City. Born and rasied over there. 100% full blooded Flip. Not like all the fake ones you have here. Real Chinese, Japanese and Koreans claiming Filipino only cuz Manny Pacquiao is Filipino. I have no doubt if Pacquiao was Cambodian 90% of the so-called "Filipinos" here would be saying there Cambodian as well. Those are the ones who take offense to the term. And they don't even know why.

[generalbulldog]

If the word Flip is offensive, then let's not use it. I'm guessing it would be like using the word Paki. I'm thinking some people might think it's a shorten word for that particular nationality, but to the group of people of that nationality it's considered to be derogatory. Now I've been guilty of also using the word Flip, but I thought it was just a shorten word for Filipino. But hey if it's a racial slur then let's just back off of it, simple as.

To get back on topic, whatever the reason behind why JMM didn't take the rematch in '05 with Pac. All I know is that Ouma was right when he said it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face, for I seriously doubt that the fight with John and the other 2 guys he fought before John would total more than 750k for the Pac rematch. Looking at it now, it was a poor financial decision. And I still don't understand why JMM's team didn't push for the JOhn fight to be on neutral ground.

[JazMerkin]

If the word Flip is offensive, then let's not use it. I'm guessing it would be like using the word Paki. I'm thinking some people might think it's a shorten word for that particular nationality, but to the group of people of that nationality it's considered to be derogatory. Now I've been guilty of also using the word Flip, but I thought it was just a shorten word for Filipino. But hey if it's a racial slur then let's just back off of it, simple as.

To get back on topic, whatever the reason behind why JMM didn't take the rematch in '05 with Pac. All I know is that Ouma was right when he said it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face, for I seriously doubt that the fight with John and the other 2 guys he fought before John would total more than 750k for the Pac rematch. Looking at it now, it was a poor financial decision. And I still don't understand why JMM's team didn't push for the JOhn fight to be on neutral ground.

I think the difference there is that word has a far greater background which is clear. It was used for anyone from the Indian sub-continent and certainly in the UK, had a history of violence associated with it (see paki-bashing). Point being is that it's easy to trace why it is offensive.

Anyway back on topic, I do believe that JMM had every reason not to accept the rematch as Arum was shafting him as laid out earlier, but choosing to go to Indonesia for that kind of money was idiotic. Beristain should stick to training, I'm amazed he was kept on as manager after that

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Yep, Flip is a derogatory racial term. Since when has this forum allowed such? If nothing is done about this, it may give the readers the impression that certain derogatory racial remarks are allowed in here.

Can you explain how it is a derogatory racial term? I'm not trying to take the piss, but the only explanation I've ever heard was that it means crazy or something in your language. I'm not trying to take the piss here, I am actually curious as to the etymology behind the word?

Here is the etymology of that term:

Flip (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope this answers your question.

[:::PSL:::]

You know how SOME African-American people call each other "nigger" and MOST of them are not offended by it?... but it's only a big deal when other color call them nigger?...

Well, it's kinda the same way to us (Filipino) with the word "Flip". Do you guys get what I'm saying?

"Flip" to me is only equivalent of "Beaner". But calling someone "gook" or "wetback"... now that's real racial IMO.

[JazMerkin]

You know how SOME African-American people call each other "nigger" and MOST of them are not offended by it?... but it's only a big deal when other color call them nigger?...

Well, it's kinda the same way to us (Filipino) with the word "Flip". Do you guys get what I'm saying?

"Flip" to me is only equivalent of "Beaner". But calling someone "gook" or "wetback"... now that's real racial IMO.

It's really not the same, and clearly doesn't have the same history behind it as those other terms. It may be what you call each other but it's not the same as 'nigger', which has centuries of history behind it's offensiveness.

Btw, why do you always look for an opportunity to use that word? I've not noticed other posters as eager to use it as an erroneous example. Like I said, I'm not going to use it, but it's funny how you wouldn't miss an opportunity to drop the 'n-word'

Anyway, I'll leave this well alone now & get back on topic as I've clearly veered this thread off it. JMM imo has beaten everyone he's faced with the exception of Mayweather & the opponent he got DQ'd against. However, both Pacquiao fights were pretty close on my scorecard & nowhere near robberies (113-112 in the first, 115-112 in the 2nd). The defeats to Norwood & John were robberies in my eyes, but certainly the John one, he has Nacho to blame for sending him over to fight a guy he had to KO to get a draw.