So why did JMM fight Chris John for 30k instead of Pac for 750k in '05?

[Fenster]

To find out why JMM fought Chris John offshore in Indonesia for 30K rather than fight Pac for 750K after the first fight, one would be better off going straight to the horse's mouth.

Checking out the post fight interview gives you an insight unto the minds of the horses themselves! (pardon the pun) The interview is the one Larry Merchant conducted for both fighters... and with little imagination, you get a real feel for emotions that goes with the responses that both Pac and JMM were saying regarding a rematch right after their brutal encounter.

Anyone a bit techie (I am not one) or maybe PacStraightLeft, can provide for a viewable version... perhaps

The video tho' that I have viewed was an HBO telecast included in a Filipino broadcast/ABS CBN and had bits with Chino Trinidad in it.

Both men then had interpreters with them handling their responses for the HBO telecast. I zoomed in to the bit were both men were asked about their willingness for a rematch. Pac and JMM both said yes to a rematch but it is in the verbiage where the telltale is.


It goes as follows...

Pac VS JMM Post Fight Interviews

Larry Merchant to Pacquiao: You were supposed to fight Erik Morales if you won this fight, since it’s a draw, do you want to do a rematch?

Manny Pacquiao through an interpreter: There should really be a rematch! so they will know who really is the best between the two of us, who really is the winner between the two of us!

Larry Merchant to Marquez: Do you want a rematch?

Juan Manuel Marquez through an interpreter: Yes. I don’t feel I need a rematch, because I feel I won this fight! But if we need to do it again, I feel I want it, let’s do it!

Curiously, it was JMM who actually said that he did not need a rematch since he felt he'd already won it, while Pac on the other hand was itching to get it on again, just to establish once and for all who really won the fight. At that moment, (IMO), he felt that he was robbed of a win, and he was not alone with that thought, Harold Lederman, providing HBO's unofficial scorecard, had Pacquiao winning, seven rounds to five, 115-110.

Draw your own conclusion, as to mine... my impression is that one was angry (Pac), while the other one was relieved (JMM).

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that

[KananKrus]

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that

I understand that Marquez held two belts at that time... but with Pac, there was never a need for him to win belts in order for him to get big fights.

The belts only became important for Pac once he was in the pursuit of attaining the novelty of having the most belts in multi-weight categories. Marquez' belts were meaningless to Pacquiao, and actually, Michael Buffet introduced Pac as the recognized people's featherweight champion (whatever that means).

After the announcement of the draw, Buffet even mentioned that both protagonists keep their own respective belts. By all intents and purposes, Pac was the draw, and "the one" being groomed to further boxing, than it was the other way around. Marquez, if he had won, would have easily taken Pac's place and possibly a match win against Morales', Pac's prospective next opponent, could have cemented his niche in the pay-per-view market.

Likewise, at this point in time, it was Marquez who needed to painstakingly add aggressiveness to his staple counter style fighting, not only to get this fight hitched against hot prospect Pacquiao, but also in order for him to increase marketability for future interests.

Getting back, JMM was the minor star in this affair, only his huge ego made him think otherwise. This ego up to now, is also part of the reason that JMM rubs Pac the wrong way. Pac in a poor attempt at humor, once said that the reason Marquez lost to PBF despite his drinking his own pee was because he didn't eat his poo to go with it! LOL. Obviously the attempt at humor had pangs of viciousness to it that is almost always less revealed in public.

So the crown meant nothing really if any of neither Pac nor JMM had the bigger thing in mind for a juicier progression into the future. The win was the most coveted in order to stake the bigger claim in the PPV arena in the sport.

Hence, a rematch was first and foremost!

That is if you get the drift...

[hardcore_crash]

That dumb mother***er interpreting did a bad job.
Marquez immediately said ,"YES i want a rematch, i feel i won; there is no "revenge" in a fight i won scored as a draw" roughly like that.

Same interpreter getting Chavez REALLY upset backstage Chavez/DLH 2 post fight.
For guess what.... misinterpreting.

[KananKrus]

The reason JMM chose the Chris John fight over a rematch with Pacquiao (IMO) is the flawed vision of Nacho over-riding that of Juan! Huh?

The manager was pulling rank above the worker! Huh?

Perplexing!

Initially from the translation of Juan’s responses in the after-fight interview of HBO’s Merchant, it seemed that his response to the question for a rematch lacked the intensity to qualify it as a “determined” positive response, hence the wrongly perceived JMM reluctance for an immediate rematch.

It turns out, the Spanish language translator was inadequate at his job and misquoted big-time! Good thing… an enlightening explanation was supplied for by “hardcore crash”, one of our esteemed forum members here, and quoted as follows:

That dumb mother***er interpreting did a bad job.
Marquez immediately said ,"YES i want a rematch, i feel i won; there is no "revenge" in a fight i won scored as a draw" roughly like that.

Same interpreter getting Chavez REALLY upset backstage Chavez/DLH 2 post fight.
For guess what.... misinterpreting.

I am now leaning to, that Beristain firmly believed that it was a brilliant management move fighting Chris John in Indonesia cause beating him should potentially establish Juan Manuel as “the” powerhouse in the lower-weight classes in the sport!

How brilliant a move is it? Or was it at all…

Was it because the Indon was the biggest name out there…
Would a convincing win against unbeaten Chris John, getting this “particular” name on his resume translate into JMM getting all the US pay-per-view action he needs in the future…

Now if you’re Juan Manuel Marquez, would it not be your best interest, if you have come to reflect on this, to resist this madness the stringiest just to avoid a possible case of futility?

Did he actually see wisdom despite all of Nacho Beristain’s seemingly “unsound” reasoning that he as the fighter who shall “labor” to pull all of this off, saw that should they win was a small price for the “potential” upside career- wise that it will unfold?

If true as regarded that wise as any, Juan Manuel is*, he probably chose the seemingly harder route with the $30K paycheck than the Pacquiao fight with $750k “insult” of a price tag, just to spite Bob Arum. Was that big of a treat…the ability to show Bob Arum off that rewarding to have done this just for spite!

This seem all baffling and yet all but the accepted affirmative on this account!

Is it not easier for many, and reasoning-friendly, to just think that for a radical change, the real reason was simply that Juan Manuel was unenthused to face Pacquiao… too soon.

A career move destined to hell, if unfruitful. Too close a call that the potential upside is not even worth the looming risk!

Well, we know that is not true...

I'd leave the experts and insiders to enlighten the "all walks of life Joe". Unbaffle the baffled, LOL!


* (college degree in accounting?)

[Violent Demise]

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that

I understand that Marquez held two belts at that time... but with Pac, there was never a need for him to win belts in order for him to get big fights.

The belts only became important for Pac once he was in the pursuit of attaining the novelty of having the most belts in multi-weight categories. Marquez' belts were meaningless to Pacquiao, and actually, Michael Buffet introduced Pac as the recognized people's featherweight champion (whatever that means).

After the announcement of the draw, Buffet even mentioned that both protagonists keep their own respective belts. By all intents and purposes, Pac was the draw, and "the one" being groomed to further boxing, than it was the other way around. Marquez, if he had won, would have easily taken Pac's place and possibly a match win against Morales', Pac's prospective next opponent, could have cemented his niche in the pay-per-view market.

Likewise, at this point in time, it was Marquez who needed to painstakingly add aggressiveness to his staple counter style fighting, not only to get this fight hitched against hot prospect Pacquiao, but also in order for him to increase marketability for future interests.

Getting back, JMM was the minor star in this affair, only his huge ego made him think otherwise. This ego up to now, is also part of the reason that JMM rubs Pac the wrong way. Pac in a poor attempt at humor, once said that the reason Marquez lost to PBF despite his drinking his own pee was because he didn't eat his poo to go with it! LOL. Obviously the attempt at humor had pangs of viciousness to it that is almost always less revealed in public.

So the crown meant nothing really if any of neither Pac nor JMM had the bigger thing in mind for a juicier progression into the future. The win was the most coveted in order to stake the bigger claim in the PPV arena in the sport.

Hence, a rematch was first and foremost!

That is if you get the drift...

Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

[KananKrus]

Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

You and your foul language gets you nowhere with civilized forumers here, when you have nothing of substance to impart, you resort to abusive language. This is an unacceptable behavior you are exhibiting!

And you having not been given notice, is amazing, since somewhere in your bloodline is someone decent to have curbed your abrasive nature. Seems like aggressive behavior is your only attempt at relevance on some topics, your only stab to contributing for the exchange of ideas... put a lid on it!

Somewhere along the line a problem will come your way and not at all times will your computer keys do the fighting for you!

Flip is a racial term, by addressing people with that derogatory term you have crossed the line, therefore you should be sanctioned or better yet, banned! Censorship calls for it, and moderators should only see it fit to do so otherwise, you and your ilk will someday run roughshod of a decent forum like this.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Yep, Flip is a derogatory racial term. Since when has this forum allowed such? If nothing is done about this, it may give the readers the impression that certain derogatory racial remarks are allowed in here.

[hardcore_crash]

I see it's that time of the month in here....

[JazMerkin]

Yep, Flip is a derogatory racial term. Since when has this forum allowed such? If nothing is done about this, it may give the readers the impression that certain derogatory racial remarks are allowed in here.

Can you explain how it is a derogatory racial term? I'm not trying to take the piss, but the only explanation I've ever heard was that it means crazy or something in your language. I'm not trying to take the piss here, I am actually curious as to the etymology behind the word?

[miron_lang]

Can you explain how it is a derogatory racial term? I'm not trying to take the piss, but the only explanation I've ever heard was that it means crazy or something in your language. I'm not trying to take the piss here, I am actually curious as to the etymology behind the word?

Here in the Philippines. 'Flip' means someone who became Psychiatrically ill because of drugs.

Im not sure how they define it in the US or anywhere else.

[Memphis]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Yep, Flip is a derogatory racial term. Since when has this forum allowed such? If nothing is done about this, it may give the readers the impression that certain derogatory racial remarks are allowed in here.

Can you explain how it is a derogatory racial term? I'm not trying to take the piss, but the only explanation I've ever heard was that it means crazy or something in your language. I'm not trying to take the piss here, I am actually curious as to the etymology behind the word?

Here is the etymology of that term:

Flip (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope this answers your question.

[Violent Demise]

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

WTF

That means HBO is paying $2.75M at least for that fight.


I just realized that you actually have ZERO credibility. Your main goal is to post Positive things about your Fighters and Negative things about Pac. Its not even an opinion you're effing obsessed!






* I think Pac did get close to that amount in his fight againts Morales. But Morales is way way way more popular than JMM.

The problem is a quite simple one. I know more than you. A substantial more. Really I don't even know who you are. You don't have your own identity. Your a Pac groupie. All you girls get lumped into one big bunch. Cuz there's no difference between any of ya'll. It's the same nonsense over and over. What you post has been repeated over and over by some else. The only thing that changes is the user name.

Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

You and your foul language gets you nowhere with civilized forumers here, when you have nothing of substance to impart, you resort to abusive language. This is an unacceptable behavior you are exhibiting!

And you having not been given notice, is amazing since somewhere in your bloodline is someone decent to have curbed your abrasive nature. Seems like aggressive behavior is your only attempt at relevance on some topics, your only stab to contributing for the exchange of ideas... put a lid on it!

Somewhere along the line a problem will come your way and not at all times will your computer keys do the fighting for you!

Flip is a racial term, by addressing people with that derogatory term you have crossed the line, therefore you should be sanctioned or better yet, banned! Censorship calls for it, and moderators should only see it fit to do so otherwise, you and your ilk will someday run roughshod of a decent forum like this.

Unacceptable behavior, huh? I'm sure it is. But guess what? I been here longer than you. And while I probably should of been ban for life a long time ago, it hasn't happened. Main reason why is this is a boxing forum. It makes no sense to rid it of it's most knowledgeable poster. Like I told the other clown. I know more than him. And I know more than you. That's not even close to being debatable. You don't like the way your post was responded too that's your problem. The solution is a very simple one. Stop posting stupid, moronic shit like you seem to do on a regular basis and I guarantee you things would get better for you. Will you actually do it? I doubt it. Based on some of your past foolish posts it's pretty obvious you can't help yourself. So I don't see things getting better for you. And it's your own fault

[Memphis]

Unacceptable behavior, huh? I'm sure it is. But guess what? I been here longer than you. And while I probably should of been ban for life a long time ago, it hasn't happened.

Use Flip one more time and we'll test that boast VD.

Get this back on track or its gone, as will you be.

[Julius Rain]

Unacceptable behavior, huh? I'm sure it is. But guess what? I been here longer than you. And while I probably should of been ban for life a long time ago, it hasn't happened.

Use Flip one more time and we'll test that boast VD.

Get this back on track or its gone, as will you be.

Sheriff is laying down the law

I like it