So why did JMM fight Chris John for 30k instead of Pac for 750k in '05?

[milmascaras1]

i'll agree. the only fight marquez has lost definitively is against mayweather jr.. that chris john fight was an absolute joke. john ran all night like the coward he is. he's way overrated and once he fights another featherweight champion, he'll be exposed like the fake that he is.

[JazMerkin]

You know how SOME African-American people call each other "nigger" and MOST of them are not offended by it?... but it's only a big deal when other color call them nigger?...

Well, it's kinda the same way to us (Filipino) with the word "Flip". Do you guys get what I'm saying?

"Flip" to me is only equivalent of "Beaner". But calling someone "gook" or "wetback"... now that's real racial IMO.

It's really not the same, and clearly doesn't have the same history behind it as those other terms. It may be what you call each other but it's not the same as 'nigger', which has centuries of history behind it's offensiveness.

Btw, why do you always look for an opportunity to use that word? I've not noticed other posters as eager to use it as an erroneous example. Like I said, I'm not going to use it, but it's funny how you wouldn't miss an opportunity to drop the 'n-word'

Anyway, I'll leave this well alone now & get back on topic as I've clearly veered this thread off it. JMM imo has beaten everyone he's faced with the exception of Mayweather & the opponent he got DQ'd against. However, both Pacquiao fights were pretty close on my scorecard & nowhere near robberies (113-112 in the first, 115-112 in the 2nd). The defeats to Norwood & John were robberies in my eyes, but certainly the John one, he has Nacho to blame for sending him over to fight a guy he had to KO to get a draw.

[:::PSL:::]

You know how SOME African-American people call each other "nigger" and MOST of them are not offended by it?... but it's only a big deal when other color call them nigger?...

Well, it's kinda the same way to us (Filipino) with the word "Flip". Do you guys get what I'm saying?

"Flip" to me is only equivalent of "Beaner". But calling someone "gook" or "wetback"... now that's real racial IMO.

It's really not the same, and clearly doesn't have the same history behind it as those other terms. It may be what you call each other but it's not the same as 'nigger', which has centuries of history behind it's offensiveness.

Btw, why do you always look for an opportunity to use that word? I've not noticed other posters as eager to use it as an erroneous example. Like I said, I'm not going to use it, but it's funny how you wouldn't miss an opportunity to drop the 'n-word'

Anyway, I'll leave this well alone now & get back on topic as I've clearly veered this thread off it. JMM imo has beaten everyone he's faced with the exception of Mayweather & the opponent he got DQ'd against. However, both Pacquiao fights were pretty close on my scorecard & nowhere near robberies (113-112 in the first, 115-112 in the 2nd). The defeats to Norwood & John were robberies in my eyes, but certainly the John one, he has Nacho to blame for sending him over to fight a guy he had to KO to get a draw.

Excuse me if I was not being politically correct. My bad. It's the N-word then.

Yeah. I think it's better if we stick to the thread topic now.

[KananKrus]

The reason JMM chose the Chris John fight over a rematch with Pacquiao (IMO) is the flawed vision of Nacho over-riding that of Juan! Huh?

The manager was pulling rank above the worker! Huh?

Perplexing!

Initially from the translation of Juan’s responses in the after-fight interview of HBO’s Merchant, it seemed that his response to the question for a rematch lacked the intensity to qualify it as a “determined” positive response, hence the wrongly perceived JMM reluctance for an immediate rematch.

It turns out, the Spanish language translator was inadequate at his job and misquoted big-time! Good thing… an enlightening explanation was supplied for by “hardcore crash”, one of our esteemed forum members here, and quoted as follows:

That dumb mother***er interpreting did a bad job.
Marquez immediately said ,"YES i want a rematch, i feel i won; there is no "revenge" in a fight i won scored as a draw" roughly like that.

Same interpreter getting Chavez REALLY upset backstage Chavez/DLH 2 post fight.
For guess what.... misinterpreting.

I am now leaning to, that Beristain firmly believed that it was a brilliant management move fighting Chris John in Indonesia cause beating him should potentially establish Juan Manuel as “the” powerhouse in the lower-weight classes in the sport!

How brilliant a move is it? Or was it at all…

Was it because the Indon was the biggest name out there…
Would a convincing win against unbeaten Chris John, getting this “particular” name on his resume translate into JMM getting all the US pay-per-view action he needs in the future…

Now if you’re Juan Manuel Marquez, would it not be your best interest, if you have come to reflect on this, to resist this madness the stringiest just to avoid a possible case of futility?

Did he actually see wisdom despite all of Nacho Beristain’s seemingly “unsound” reasoning that he as the fighter who shall “labor” to pull all of this off, saw that should they win was a small price for the “potential” upside career- wise that it will unfold?

If true as regarded that wise as any, Juan Manuel is*, he probably chose the seemingly harder route with the $30K paycheck than the Pacquiao fight with $750k “insult” of a price tag, just to spite Bob Arum. Was that big of a treat…the ability to show Bob Arum off that rewarding to have done this just for spite!

This seem all baffling and yet all but the accepted affirmative on this account!

Is it not easier for many, and reasoning-friendly, to just think that for a radical change, the real reason was simply that Juan Manuel was unenthused to face Pacquiao… too soon.

A career move destined to hell, if unfruitful. Too close a call that the potential upside is not even worth the looming risk!

Well, we know that is not true...

I'd leave the experts and insiders to enlighten the "all walks of life Joe". Unbaffle the baffled, LOL!


* (college degree in accounting?)

[Julius Rain]

Unacceptable behavior, huh? I'm sure it is. But guess what? I been here longer than you. And while I probably should of been ban for life a long time ago, it hasn't happened.

Use Flip one more time and we'll test that boast VD.

Get this back on track or its gone, as will you be.

Sheriff is laying down the law

I like it

[Violent Demise]

The problem is a quite simple one. I know more than you. A substantial more.

I doubt it.

I probably been watching boxing longer than you are alive

verifiable : I registered here 2 yrs ahead of you



You said Pac was suppose to get more than $2M for the Marquez rematch?

Are you backing off now and admit that you will type anything just to fuck around? Where did you get the $2M?

Like dealing with 5 year olds. Stupid ones too. That can't read. Show me where I ever said Pac was getting more than 2 million. Point that out to me. He was gonna get 1.4 million not matter what. After the PPV sales (the first one wasn't PPV) his total would of been CLOSE to 2 million. Which was what I said from the start. Close doesn't translate to more. Like I said I only deal in facts. You got proof what I'm saying is inaccurate than let me see it.

[generalbulldog]

i'll agree. the only fight marquez has lost definitively is against mayweather jr.. that chris john fight was an absolute joke. john ran all night like the coward he is. he's way overrated and once he fights another featherweight champion, he'll be exposed like the fake that he is.

Yeah we all know that a boxer in the ring is a coward unlike keyboard warriors like you that are oh so brave and courageous.

[milmascaras1]

general,

who the fucks talking to you asshole? if you can't fathom that chris john ran when he faced marquez you need to get john's cock out of your mouth.

[Violent Demise]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

Let's face it, just because people take offence doesn't mean it is necessarily racist, so I wanted to know what it meant as I couldn't find anything that really explained why.

I take offence to things people say on here in context of my own 'race', but I just generally ignore it, because most times people don't realize they're doing it and it's not maliciously intended (I'm not saying whether VD's is or not). Anyway I was curious as to how this term was racially derogatory, whether it was something the Spanish used to use or something.

The term isn't derogatory. Far from it. Lets be real here. Whoever finds it offensive can't even give a reason why it's a offensive. You know why? Cuz it's not. Filipinos are called Flips cuz that's what they are. It's like calling a Mexican a Mex. A Salvadorian a Salvie. It's a fucking abbreviation of the word. It's not a racist term. And I know this for a fact. It came straight from the muthafukka who lives 2 houses down. He comes straight from Zamboanga City. Born and rasied over there. 100% full blooded Flip. Not like all the fake ones you have here. Real Chinese, Japanese and Koreans claiming Filipino only cuz Manny Pacquiao is Filipino. I have no doubt if Pacquiao was Cambodian 90% of the so-called "Filipinos" here would be saying there Cambodian as well. Those are the ones who take offense to the term. And they don't even know why.

[generalbulldog]

general,

who the fucks talking to you asshole? if you can't fathom that chris john ran when he faced marquez you need to get john's cock out of your mouth.

I ain't even a John fan. But who the fuck are you to call a man that fights for a living a coward? Shit is funny coming from some armchair internet warrior. A few more idiot members like this and this place becomes another East side boxing forum.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Do we really need to know what it means? I didnt know so have had to look it up, I dont have a definitive answer for you, its a word that is offensive in certain context and when said by certain people, much like any other 'euphemism' that denotes colour or race(didnt find Miron Langs definition of it)
Some people have taken offence to its use here so thats all we need to know.

Let's face it, just because people take offence doesn't mean it is necessarily racist, so I wanted to know what it meant as I couldn't find anything that really explained why.

I take offence to things people say on here in context of my own 'race', but I just generally ignore it, because most times people don't realize they're doing it and it's not maliciously intended (I'm not saying whether VD's is or not). Anyway I was curious as to how this term was racially derogatory, whether it was something the Spanish used to use or something.

The term isn't derogatory. Far from it. Lets be real here. Whoever finds it offensive can't even give a reason why it's a offensive. You know why? Cuz it's not. Filipinos are called Flips cuz that's what they are. It's like calling a Mexican a Mex. A Salvadorian a Salvie. It's a fucking abbreviation of the word. It's not a racist term. And I know this for a fact. It came straight from the muthafukka who lives 2 houses down. He comes straight from Zamboanga City. Born and rasied over there. 100% full blooded Flip. Not like all the fake ones you have here. Real Chinese, Japanese and Koreans claiming Filipino only cuz Manny Pacquiao is Filipino. I have no doubt if Pacquiao was Cambodian 90% of the so-called "Filipinos" here would be saying there Cambodian as well. Those are the ones who take offense to the term. And they don't even know why.

You really have some deep-seated hatred towards Filipinos.

Why do you keep on insisting that the word is not derogatory? Is a racial slur derogatory? Then check out this Racial Slur Database:

The Racial Slur Database

If you now realize that it is indeed a racial slur, would you be man enough to apologize?
If you still don't believe that it is derogatory, maybe you would want to try repeating those words again in here and we'll see what happens ..........

[:::PSL:::]

i'll agree. the only fight marquez has lost definitively is against mayweather jr.. that chris john fight was an absolute joke. john ran all night like the coward he is. he's way overrated and once he fights another featherweight champion, he'll be exposed like the fake that he is.

Attn Mods. I think this thread needs to be cleaned up. Give some deciplinary actions too to the one who deserves it.

Anyway. Back to the topic. Ahem!

CJ simply used the big ring as his advantage. I reckon of the commentator (not the Indonesian) said something like "they made ring bigger than standard to accommodate CJ's running game" which unfortunately unsuitable to JMM's counter punching style.

I've watched the fight again. It seems to me the fight was judged on an amateur-like basis . If you were just see the fight it would look like Marquez won because he hit John with more harder punches, but as the amateur rules proceed, John have landed more punches (mostly jabs on Marquez) so i would conclude John outsmarted Marquez in that fight.

I think CJ really deserves the win. They both landed some clean punches, and you can not really tell who has the edge up to the last round. The thing is, If you are the challenger, you only have 2 choices to win, either fully dominate the fight convincingly or knock your opponent cold which in both cases, Marquez was not able to do.

[mnmc10]

"And I know this for a fact. It came straight from the muthafukka who lives 2 houses down. He comes straight from Zamboanga City. Born and rasied over there. 100% full blooded Flip."

your neighbor probably just migrated to the US and is clueless about it. heck there are some guys whom you can call whatever you want but still smile at you just so they can stay out of trouble or "fit in". zamboanga is also a province in the philippines very far from metro manila. the chances of him meeting fellow zamboanguenos who experienced living in the US is far less as compared to people who lives in metro manila. so he might not be educated about slurs in the US.
its been explained to you alot of times already InTheNeutralCorner also posted a link proving its a slur. and if you use that word again then your probably racist. and is intentionally hating on filipinos.

[milmascaras1]

Attn Mods. I think this thread needs to be cleaned up. Give some deciplinary actions too to the one who deserves it.

Anyway. Back to the topic. Ahem!

CJ simply used the big ring as his advantage. I reckon of the commentator (not the Indonesian) said something like "they made ring bigger than standard to accommodate CJ's running game" which unfortunately unsuitable to JMM's counter punching style.

I've watched the fight again. It seems to me the fight was judged on an amateur-like basis . If you were just see the fight it would look like Marquez won because he hit John with more harder punches, but as the amateur rules proceed, John have landed more punches (mostly jabs on Marquez) so i would conclude John outsmarted Marquez in that fight.

I think CJ really deserves the win. They both landed some clean punches, and you can not really tell who has the edge up to the last round. The thing is, If you are the challenger, you only have 2 choices to win, either fully dominate the fight convincingly or knock your opponent cold which in both cases, Marquez was not able to do.[/QUOTE]

PSL,

there you go running to the mods whenever someone disagrees with you. you remind me of a little toy poodle that barks up a storm but when he's about to get his ass eaten up by a bigger dog, you run to your master with your tail deep inside your legs hoping he'll save you. this is a boxing forum, not everyone is supposed to exchange pleasantries. there are alot of opinions and some are just different than others.

i guess the second quote in bold doesn't apply to pacquiao when he was awarded a SD decision for getting outboxed 8 rounds to 4, doesn't it? like i said before, asia is one of the most corrupt places on earth to ever win world titles. you've got to kill your opponent just to get a split decision.

[:::PSL:::]

Attn Mods. I think this thread needs to be cleaned up. Give some deciplinary actions too to the one who deserves it.

Anyway. Back to the topic. Ahem!

CJ simply used the big ring as his advantage. I reckon of the commentator (not the Indonesian) said something like "they made ring bigger than standard to accommodate CJ's running game" which unfortunately unsuitable to JMM's counter punching style.

I've watched the fight again. It seems to me the fight was judged on an amateur-like basis . If you were just see the fight it would look like Marquez won because he hit John with more harder punches, but as the amateur rules proceed, John have landed more punches (mostly jabs on Marquez) so i would conclude John outsmarted Marquez in that fight.

I think CJ really deserves the win. They both landed some clean punches, and you can not really tell who has the edge up to the last round. The thing is, If you are the challenger, you only have 2 choices to win, either fully dominate the fight convincingly or knock your opponent cold which in both cases, Marquez was not able to do.
PSL,

there you go running to the mods whenever someone disagrees with you. you remind me of a little toy poodle that barks up a storm but when he's about to get his ass eaten up by a bigger dog, you run to your master with your tail deep inside your legs hoping he'll save you. this is a boxing forum, not everyone is supposed to exchange pleasantries. there are alot of opinions and some are just different than others.

i guess the second quote in bold doesn't apply to pacquiao when he was awarded a SD decision for getting outboxed 8 rounds to 4, doesn't it? like i said before, asia is one of the most corrupt places on earth to ever win world titles. you've got to kill your opponent just to get a split decision.

I was talking about the racial talk that has been going on in this thread you dumbfuck. You're so dumb you still don't know how to use the "qoutation" tool of this forum.