
Originally Posted by
killersheep

Originally Posted by
Bilbo

Originally Posted by
killersheep

Originally Posted by
Bilbo

Originally Posted by
killersheep
Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.
Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.
How is that fair?
Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.
Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.
You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.
Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.
That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.
Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.
I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.
I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.
If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.
I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?
If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?
By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.
If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.
When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.
In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.
Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.
At the end of the day boxing is all about private contracts, and fighters are going to do what they want, the commissions are willing to go along with whatever is set forth as long as they profit. HOWEVER, you can look at the rules of any commission and the rules for weighing in are currently the day before the weigh in.
WBC - section 4.6
<-- Sanctioning body for Margarito/Pacquiao
http://www.wbcboxing.com/downloads/N...FINAL_2009.pdf
"Boxers shall have the final weigh-in
no less than 24 hours but not more than 30 hours before the bout"
WBA - page 21 section E.5
World Boxing Association Official Site Click on Regulations tab, then click rules
"carried out
between 16 and 30 hours before the bout"
WBO - section 4
REGULATIONS
The WBO does not mandate a weigh in time at all, but does have two pages on purse bids
IBF - section 1.A
http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...amendments.pdf
The IBF has two weigh ins, the official one that's the day before (official weight) and one the morning of the fight to make sure fighters haven't gained more than 10 lbs. over the weight limit.
You also have to keep in mind that commissions, managers and even most fighters themselves are going to want prior day weigh ins, because it's a marketing tool, it gets people out, photo ops, pre fight trash talk in public view, you wouldn't get the full effect at 5-6 in the morning day of the fight.
And again you bring up fairness, but if someone is moving into a new weightclass they should abide by the current rules of that weight class or they have no business there. It's not as if Manny isn't going to make a ton of cash regardless of who he fights.
Perhaps it would help your argument if you could show some examples within the last 20 years of some fights that have used same day weigh-ins. Otherwise we are certainly talking about a social norm under the accepted current rules of the commissions.
It's an accepted social norm now, because like you say the television and media demands it. It's also been in operation for so long that we have all accepted it. That doesn't mean that it no longer confers on the bigger man a very real, and non skill related advantage.
It is the flip side to the catchweight argument. People will cry foul that a man is asked to weigh only 150 lbs the day before fighting for a 154 lb title, but think nothing of the advantage gained through him weighing 165 lbs during the actual fight itself.
They will then argue, how can you win a 154 lb belt fighting at 150 lbs? But the fight wasn't at 150lbs it was 148lbs vs 165 lbs.
It depends what your ultimate goal in boxing is. For the best fighters to fight the best fighters, even when they operate in different natural weight classes, or would you rather see these fighters remain pure to the their chosen divisions even if it means not fighting each other.
Personally I am massively in favour of the former approach. I couldn't care less about the weight of a fighter in all honesty, providing they are healthy to fight.
The belts have been so devalued in the sport of the boxing due to corruption and appalling paid for rankings as to be rendered virtually meaningless. The fighters are the stars of boxing, and why we watch, not the WBC, WBA, IBF belts etc.
Once a fighter has proven himself we know his worth to the sport, we don't a belt to tell us that, or a specific weight class. Some may like the fact that Marvin Hagler only ever fought as a middleweight had there been any stars at 175 lbs that would have made for interesting fights I would have loved to see him move up to a catchweight to challenge them. I don't need for a fight to be in a specific weight class for me to know it's a significant fight. The issue of weight draining is different. I don't want to see a fight kill himself to make weight. But this isn't a problem related to catchweight fights any more than regular weight classes. The only fighter who looked weight drained against Manny was Oscar, and that wasn't a catchweight fight. Ironically, had it been a catchweight fight, at say 150 lbs like when Oscar fought Steve Forbes, it would have been more competitive not less.
I just cannot see the problem. Watching Manny rise up through multiple weight classes over the past 3 years has been absolutely sensational. He has torn through some of the biggest names in three divisions, and having come all the way from flyweight to that.
Over the course of that he's had two catchweight fights, his first proper fight at welter against a genuine welter in Cotto, and his first fight at light middle, against a big tall man in Margarito.
Given the choice of these catchweight agreements being in place, or the fights not taking place at all I wholeheartedly support the catchweights.
Also, why is it only Manny who gets criticism for it.
Why did no one rain on Marquez when he got Floyd to agree to a catchweight of 145? Nobody mentioned it, because although he is the same size as Manny, and came from the same superfeatherweight divison as Manny he is not held to the same standard of perfection as Manny.
Also Floyd chose to ignore it and pay a fine instead, which I guess both Cotto and Margarito were free to do. They didn't however, as they chose to keep the honour of the sport and stick the agreement, unlike Floyd who just ignored his agreement.
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