De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[Gandalf]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

[Hornfinger]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

100% agree.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

[Gandalf]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

Yes, it does work both ways.

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

You will just have to deal with that.

[fan johnny]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

Yes, it does work both ways.

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

You will just have to deal with that.

That's a stretch. Margarito is a middleweight no argument here but he opted to fight in the welter division for much his career so he'd have the size and power advantage. Fighting Garcia was a stay busy fight while he was on exile. Margarito has had no problems making 147lbs, so why would making 150lbs be out of his comfort zone? He thought he'd have the same advantage and more against Pacquiao, but ended up with the beating he deserved.

[Kev]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

Yes, it does work both ways.

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

You will just have to deal with that.

Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?

What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.

And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.

Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.

Why you so angry with Pac?

[Gandalf]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

Yes, it does work both ways.

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

You will just have to deal with that.

Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?

What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.

And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.

Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.

Why you so angry with Pac?

I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.

There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.

[Kev]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

Yes, it does work both ways.

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

You will just have to deal with that.

Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?

What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.

And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.

Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.

Why you so angry with Pac?

I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.

There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.

Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.

Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.

[Gandalf]

Bilbo, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy watching Manny fight but at the same time be critical of the continual use of catchweights. Just as you can appreciate that Israel is a democracy you can be extremely critical of government led state sponsored terrorism. They aren't exclusive ways of thinking.

I agree with Hornfinger in that there was no good reason not to fight Margarito at 154 and Cotto at 147. I will give Manny a pass with ODLH though as he was a big underdog and was jumping up 2 weight divisions for the first time. It was Oscar that wanted to play the weight game that night and he paid. And that's fair enough.

If Pac wants to fight the big guys it would be good for the sport to see him fight within the existing weight bands. If it is too much for him them he should really stay at JWW.

If it's too much for Pacquiao's opponents, then they should not have agreed to the fight. I am not saying that it's his opponent's fault nor is it Manny's fault. It goes both ways. They agreed to the fight knowing that they are still capable of beating Manny. If they knew that such catchweight is detrimental and that they are sure they can't win the fight and yet agreed to it, then they are the ones who are crazy and would be at fault.

If the catchweight is allowed by the boxing association, then why would someone fault the boxer for using it. Blame it on those boxing organizations. Have them abolish the catchweight.

I wished Pacquiao fought Cotto without a catchweight. Margarito is a different story. Several boxers fought at a catchweight: Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Oscar dela Hoya, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, etc. The catchweights didn't tarnish these boxers reputation. I don't even think the general public remembers that they fought at a catchweight. Manny's catchweight fights would not even be remembered as such several years after he retires.

Yes, it does work both ways.

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out, but it seems in professional boxing it is all too common. If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would. And in the process would you then quibble over a pound or two that the richest fighter in the world argued about? No you would take the money and run and so that is what these opponents have done. Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

And yes we could blame the administrations. But this is boxing. Have you suddenly entered the Nobel peace prize commitee? And even they can get it very wrong. You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

You will just have to deal with that.

Where are your threads complaining about Juan Manuel Marquez for dragging Floyd down to 145 lbs?

What about Sergio Martinez fighting for and retaining his WBC middleweight crown at a catchweight of 158 against Paul Williams. Of course, you havn't forgotten about this or blacked it out, but I also haven't seen you complaining.

And correct me if I'm wrong but Martinez has only ever fought in 3 weight classes and already he is having catchweight fights. Manny didn't have his first catchweight fight until he had move up 10 (TEN!) weight classes.

Floyd, J M Marquez, Oscar, Hopkins, Williams, Martinez have all organised catchweight fights in the last few years. In all these cases the bigger man won anyway.

Why you so angry with Pac?

I am never less than consistent. I disctinctly recall criticising Williams for fighting Martinez at a catchweight and I was extremely critical of Mayweather for fighting Marquez way outside of his weight class.

There is no need for it and as long as it happens I shall be against it.

Why were you critical of Floyd? It was Marquez who demanded Floyd cut weight and got him to agree to come in like a corpse at 145lbs.

Your logic is totally inconsistent. Manny is from the same weight class as Marquez and he's fighting guys at 147 and Margarito even higher than that. And he's kicking their asses. But in his case he's being the bully? I'm lost.

I was critical of Floyd for taking a fight with a LW. It was a mismatch. There should have been no fight, let alone catchweights. Of course Floyd ignored the CW anyway, so perhaps he agrees about CW's.

As for Pac, we have already seen that he is unnatural and somehow able to carry the weight. The request for CW's is just not justified. Just fight them in their own weightclasses and be done with it. Otherwise there will always be detractors.

I happen to think Manny is a great too, so would much rather he just stay within the existing weight parameters and stop playing games at the scales.

[MrUnbiasedFan]

Good point Oscar

[InTheNeutralCorner]

As a man of principles I wouldn't sell out

Good for you.

If you were offered a 12 round fight to secure your retirement, then you most likely would.

Yes, I definitely would. And if I'm on top of the boxing world and can dictate a catchweight so that my opponents doesn't have undue advantage, then I also would. You most likely would, too.

Sure, they have fought Pac, but they have fought him at weights neither of them were used to. Not even Margarito.

For you to come up with that statement (in bold), I am sure that you know what were the actual fight weights (not the 24 hr weight in) of Cotto or Margarito in their last three fights. I did not hear you complain about them not being comfortable in their actual fighting weight prior to the Pacquiao fight so surely there is a remarkable difference in those actual weights. Do you know what their actual fight weights were so that I may understand your contention?

You say that people will not remember. Okay, Bilbo has blacked out the past. But people like me don't and there are a lot of us. Sure Pac is exciting, but there are question marks and people who aren't into propaganda will question him.

But a lot of the people like you (and that includes me) and those who aren't into propaganda today would most likely not even be alive 50 years from now. The future generations would not be thinking of catchweights when they hear about Pacquiao as much as not a lot of people even knows that Henry Armstrong had been in a catchweight. Now that I know about it, I don't even care. I still put Henry Armstrong in high regard.