Which draw was the biggest robbery?

[Kev]

LMAO

Why do you think in all of those catch weight fights no one lost due to being drained??

IT BECAUSE NEITHER FIGHTER WHO ASKED FOR THE CATCH WEIGHT DID IT FOR ADVANTAGEOUS REASONS.

They did it as a median, not to have as many advantages over the other fighter, or take hope that fighter won't be at there best.

This must surely go down as one of the greatest comments ever made on Saddo's imo. So all the other catchweights in history were amicable, fair, favouring neither man, apart from Manny's

Cotto who had to give up a single pound in weight.
Margarito who was actually allowed to move up a weight class and weigh 4 lbs MORE than he did against Margarito.

Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of hate up

Pacquiao-Mosley Possible at 148, For WBC 154 title

Do I need to say more??

Maybe you don't understand what I am trying to tell you, or you choose not to; but Pacquiao has asked for catch weights for about two years now for just about everyone.
2 of last 3 fights have been catch weights. Or two fights in the last year have been catch weight. If I didn't have to CONSTANTLY see new weights for which Pac wants to fight different opponents maybe it would be different. But he has a different weight for a different fighter.

Manny has even asked Mosley to come down to LWW before

Please show me in that article anywhere where it says that Manny has asked for a catchweight. It's speculation on the part of the author nothing more.

Look let's examine the line carefully step by step so your slow mind can grasp..He write's

'There is a possiblity, although most don't expect it, for Mosley to face Pacquaio at a catchweight of 148lbs, with the WBC's 154lb title at stake.'

In other words, there is no confirmation of this. You are arguing and criticising Manny over the speculations of a journalist.

Interestingly the fairest fight would be for them to fight at the 147lb welterweight limit.

A catchweight, if it occurs, and most likely at 150, would be to Shane's benefit as the naturally bigger man rather than Manny, who would be better to face him at 147, the same weight that Shane weighed in against for Floyd Mayweather.

If a catchweight is decided upon (and again nothing has been agreed), it will be to allow Shane the fight for the junior middleweight belt, and to be able to put on a few lbs compared to the weight he fought against Floyd Mayweather, Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto.

It's interesting that Manny suffers accusations of weight draining his opponents, whereas in actuality in the case of Margarito, and Shane if a catchweight is agreed, he will have let them weigh more than they did against virtually anyone else....

[hardcore_crash]

LMAO

Why do you think in all of those catch weight fights no one lost due to being drained??

IT BECAUSE NEITHER FIGHTER WHO ASKED FOR THE CATCH WEIGHT DID IT FOR ADVANTAGEOUS REASONS.

They did it as a median, not to have as many advantages over the other fighter, or take hope that fighter won't be at there best.

This must surely go down as one of the greatest comments ever made on Saddo's imo. So all the other catchweights in history were amicable, fair, favouring neither man, apart from Manny's

Cotto who had to give up a single pound in weight.
Margarito who was actually allowed to move up a weight class and weigh 4 lbs MORE than he did against Margarito.

Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of hate up

Pacquiao-Mosley Possible at 148, For WBC 154 title

Do I need to say more??

Maybe you don't understand what I am trying to tell you, or you choose not to; but Pacquiao has asked for catch weights for about two years now for just about everyone.
2 of last 3 fights have been catch weights. Or two fights in the last year have been catch weight. If I didn't have to CONSTANTLY see new weights for which Pac wants to fight different opponents maybe it would be different. But he has a different weight for a different fighter.

Manny has even asked Mosley to come down to LWW before

The article was written by Lem Satterfield, Michael Marley's equivalent but on the other side.

The same guy that reported Clottey was at a catchweight. BTW the article did state there is a possiblity but more than likely it will not be at catchweight. Looks like the joke is on you.

Almost as good as your other post that guys like Leonard, DLH, Chavez that asked for catchweights did it not to gain an advantage but as a median.

It's either you are for or against it, not pick 1 guy is allowed to do it while another guy can't.

The joke is on me because there is a possibility for another catch weight fight? Riiiiiiight.
Obviously I am against catch weight fights. And it's not "it's either you're against them or not" they serve there purposes every once in great awhile.

[hardcore_crash]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

[Kev]

LMAO

Why do you think in all of those catch weight fights no one lost due to being drained??

IT BECAUSE NEITHER FIGHTER WHO ASKED FOR THE CATCH WEIGHT DID IT FOR ADVANTAGEOUS REASONS.

They did it as a median, not to have as many advantages over the other fighter, or take hope that fighter won't be at there best.

This must surely go down as one of the greatest comments ever made on Saddo's imo. So all the other catchweights in history were amicable, fair, favouring neither man, apart from Manny's

Cotto who had to give up a single pound in weight.
Margarito who was actually allowed to move up a weight class and weigh 4 lbs MORE than he did against Margarito.

Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of hate up

Pacquiao-Mosley Possible at 148, For WBC 154 title

Do I need to say more??

Maybe you don't understand what I am trying to tell you, or you choose not to; but Pacquiao has asked for catch weights for about two years now for just about everyone.
2 of last 3 fights have been catch weights. Or two fights in the last year have been catch weight. If I didn't have to CONSTANTLY see new weights for which Pac wants to fight different opponents maybe it would be different. But he has a different weight for a different fighter.

Manny has even asked Mosley to come down to LWW before

The article was written by Lem Satterfield, Michael Marley's equivalent but on the other side.

The same guy that reported Clottey was at a catchweight. BTW the article did state there is a possiblity but more than likely it will not be at catchweight. Looks like the joke is on you.

Almost as good as your other post that guys like Leonard, DLH, Chavez that asked for catchweights did it not to gain an advantage but as a median.

It's either you are for or against it, not pick 1 guy is allowed to do it while another guy can't.

The joke is on me because there is a possibility for another catch weight fight? Riiiiiiight.
Obviously I am against catch weight fights. And it's not "it's either you're against them or not" they serve there purposes every once in great awhile.

Your claim above, which I quoted was that all other catchweight fights in history were fair because they represented a fair compromise to find the best weight.

This is what you wrote

Why do you think in all of those catch weight fights no one lost due to being drained??

IT BECAUSE NEITHER FIGHTER WHO ASKED FOR THE CATCH WEIGHT DID IT FOR ADVANTAGEOUS REASONS.

They did it as a median, not to have as many advantages over the other fighter, or take hope that fighter won't be at there best.

So clearly, your problem is not that Manny has taken catchweight fights, but that he manipulates the catchweight fights to drain his opponents.

So, my question to you is this. What advantage does Manny gain by allowing Mosley to fight at a catchweight?

He could just fight him at the 147 welterweight limit, the same as Floyd did, the same as Cotto did, and the same as Margarito did.

But he may, and the key word is may, no confirmation has been made, allow Shane to weigh in over the 147 lbs limit so that the 154 lb belt can also be on the line.

How does this drain Shane exactly?

I am interested to hear your response because in your own words, all the catchweights were ok because they didn't drain a fighter. As Manny is letting Shane weigh MORE than he did against his other recent opponents how does he drain him?

[Kev]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

[generalbulldog]

I remember reading that Bilbo loves to play chess. Well it looks like this is check mate.

[hardcore_crash]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

I really don't think Roach is trying to dehydrate Manny's opponents as much a a raisin.
But, there has to be reasons he is fighting DLH 147, Cotto 145, Clottey 147, Mosley 148***

[fan johnny]

LMAO

Why do you think in all of those catch weight fights no one lost due to being drained??

IT BECAUSE NEITHER FIGHTER WHO ASKED FOR THE CATCH WEIGHT DID IT FOR ADVANTAGEOUS REASONS.

They did it as a median, not to have as many advantages over the other fighter, or take hope that fighter won't be at there best.

This must surely go down as one of the greatest comments ever made on Saddo's imo. So all the other catchweights in history were amicable, fair, favouring neither man, apart from Manny's

Cotto who had to give up a single pound in weight.
Margarito who was actually allowed to move up a weight class and weigh 4 lbs MORE than he did against Margarito.

Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of hate up

Pacquiao-Mosley Possible at 148, For WBC 154 title

Do I need to say more??

Maybe you don't understand what I am trying to tell you, or you choose not to; but Pacquiao has asked for catch weights for about two years now for just about everyone.
2 of last 3 fights have been catch weights. Or two fights in the last year have been catch weight. If I didn't have to CONSTANTLY see new weights for which Pac wants to fight different opponents maybe it would be different. But he has a different weight for a different fighter.

Manny has even asked Mosley to come down to LWW before

The article was written by Lem Satterfield, Michael Marley's equivalent but on the other side.

The same guy that reported Clottey was at a catchweight. BTW the article did state there is a possiblity but more than likely it will not be at catchweight. Looks like the joke is on you.

Almost as good as your other post that guys like Leonard, DLH, Chavez that asked for catchweights did it not to gain an advantage but as a median.

It's either you are for or against it, not pick 1 guy is allowed to do it while another guy can't.

You have a very long explanation to make if your saying it's a catch-weight at the 147lb limit, which is where Mosley has been fighting. And then if you are saying a higher weight for Mosley between 148-154 is less of an advantage?, then you're just stupid. It's the same weight advantage for Mosley, that Margarito had stepping into the ring with a 10 to 15 lb functional weight advantage. And Margarito actually had a 17 lb weight advantage. The stated purpose of 24-hour weigh-in is to allow fighters to step into the ring safely re-hydrated. With the 24 hour weigh-in, 9 times out of 10, the functional weight advantage is typically going to favor the naturally bigger man. If it is the bigger man's wall "so to say" then it will be the smaller man's advantage due to the affect on stamina but not in Margarito's case and not in Mosley's case.

[hardcore_crash]

LMAO

Why do you think in all of those catch weight fights no one lost due to being drained??

IT BECAUSE NEITHER FIGHTER WHO ASKED FOR THE CATCH WEIGHT DID IT FOR ADVANTAGEOUS REASONS.

They did it as a median, not to have as many advantages over the other fighter, or take hope that fighter won't be at there best.

This must surely go down as one of the greatest comments ever made on Saddo's imo. So all the other catchweights in history were amicable, fair, favouring neither man, apart from Manny's

Cotto who had to give up a single pound in weight.
Margarito who was actually allowed to move up a weight class and weigh 4 lbs MORE than he did against Margarito.

Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of hate up

Pacquiao-Mosley Possible at 148, For WBC 154 title

Do I need to say more??

Maybe you don't understand what I am trying to tell you, or you choose not to; but Pacquiao has asked for catch weights for about two years now for just about everyone.
2 of last 3 fights have been catch weights. Or two fights in the last year have been catch weight. If I didn't have to CONSTANTLY see new weights for which Pac wants to fight different opponents maybe it would be different. But he has a different weight for a different fighter.

Manny has even asked Mosley to come down to LWW before

The article was written by Lem Satterfield, Michael Marley's equivalent but on the other side.

The same guy that reported Clottey was at a catchweight. BTW the article did state there is a possiblity but more than likely it will not be at catchweight. Looks like the joke is on you.

Almost as good as your other post that guys like Leonard, DLH, Chavez that asked for catchweights did it not to gain an advantage but as a median.

It's either you are for or against it, not pick 1 guy is allowed to do it while another guy can't.

The joke is on me because there is a possibility for another catch weight fight? Riiiiiiight.
Obviously I am against catch weight fights. And it's not "it's either you're against them or not" they serve there purposes every once in great awhile.

So, my question to you is this. What advantage does Manny gain by allowing Mosley to fight at a catchweight?

How does this drain Shane exactly?

"Those" that I was referring about were the catch weight fights you and Jaz were discussing. "Those" don't include ALL.
It seems this whole time you guys have been putting words in my mouth.
Maybe you think I am Mil, but I am not.

And Shane's last fight was at 154 limit wasn't it? So Mosley is going from 147-154-147 in one year.

[hardcore_crash]

I remember reading that Bilbo loves to play chess. Well it looks like this is check mate.

By assuming things right?
Where exactly did I not get room to breath in this discussion?
It's a simple check, and it looks like a Knight to me

[Kev]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

I really don't think Roach is trying to dehydrate Manny's opponents as much a a raisin.
But, there has to be reasons he is fighting DLH 147, Cotto 145, Clottey 147, Mosley 148***

Well let's go through them one by one.

Oscar. At the time of the negotiations Manny was a superfeatherweight, Oscar a junior middleweight. That's a difference of 4 weight divisions! For Manny to climb three and Oscar to drop one seemed to most to be unfairly stacked against Manny. It was Oscar who held the bartering power in that fight and all the prefight criticism was directed against him for picking on such a small guy just to make money. You can't slate Manny for this fight at all.

Cotto, Probably the biggest criticism that could be laid at Pac is this fight. He had fought Oscar at 147 so why not Cotto? Well I would agree that maybe Manny was uncertain he could face a young, tough worldclass natural welterweight and that he wasn't sure if he himself was a natural welterweight. In the event he dominated Miguel and subsequently fought his next fight against Clottey, who is an ever bigger welter than Cotto, at the full welterweight limit. Cotto also only weighed in a single pound less than he did for his own fight with Clottey, he was hardly drained. Personally I am prepared to give a superfeatherweight brave enough to rise through 10 weight divisions and fight the best a pass on asking an opponent to give up a pound.

Clottey. Fought at the full 148 limit

Margaritio, you don't mention him above but the catchweight was to Margarito's advantage not Manny's. Margarito was a career welterweight and was allowed to weigh in over 3lbs heavier than his previous significant fights so that they could fight for a 145 title. On the night Margarito was 17lbs heavier than Manny. If Manny would have fought him at the welterweight limit he would have had a bigger advantage. This catchweight helped Margo not Manny.

Mosley. No catchweight has yet been agreed but again I don't see how it helps Manny. Mosley has been fighting at 147 so why would allowing him to fight higher than that cause him to be weight drained?

People can argue against the purity of the weight classes being tarnished, that's a seperate issue. But the idea that Manny is forcing fighters to lose on the scales just doesn't hold up.

The only fighter dead at the weight was Oscar, and that fight was the result of HIS negotiations.

[hardcore_crash]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

I really don't think Roach is trying to dehydrate Manny's opponents as much a a raisin.
But, there has to be reasons he is fighting DLH 147, Cotto 145, Clottey 147, Mosley 148***

Well let's go through them one by one.

Oscar. At the time of the negotiations Manny was a superfeatherweight, Oscar a junior middleweight. That's a difference of 4 weight divisions! For Manny to climb three and Oscar to drop one seemed to most to be unfairly stacked against Manny. It was Oscar who held the bartering power in that fight and all the prefight criticism was directed against him for picking on such a small guy just to make money. You can't slate Manny for this fight at all.

Cotto, Probably the biggest criticism that could be laid at Pac is this fight. He had fought Oscar at 147 so why not Cotto? Well I would agree that maybe Manny was uncertain he could face a young, tough worldclass natural welterweight and that he wasn't sure if he himself was a natural welterweight. In the event he dominated Miguel and subsequently fought his next fight against Clottey, who is an ever bigger welter than Cotto, at the full welterweight limit. Cotto also only weighed in a single pound less than he did for his own fight with Clottey, he was hardly drained. Personally I am prepared to give a superfeatherweight brave enough to rise through 10 weight divisions and fight the best a pass on asking an opponent to give up a pound.

Clottey. Fought at the full 148 limit

Margaritio, you don't mention him above but the catchweight was to Margarito's advantage not Manny's. Margarito was a career welterweight and was allowed to weigh in over 3lbs heavier than his previous significant fights so that they could fight for a 145 title. On the night Margarito was 17lbs heavier than Manny. If Manny would have fought him at the welterweight limit he would have had a bigger advantage. This catchweight helped Margo not Manny.

Mosley. No catchweight has yet been agreed but again I don't see how it helps Manny. Mosley has been fighting at 147 so why would allowing him to fight higher than that cause him to be weight drained?

People can argue against the purity of the weight classes being tarnished, that's a seperate issue. But the idea that Manny is forcing fighters to lose on the scales just doesn't hold up.

The only fighter dead at the weight was Oscar, and that fight was the result of HIS negotiations.

Oscar, at the time Manny was a LW (not super FW) Oscar's last fight was at 150 with Forbes. Day of the fight for Manny was 145+ I believe against Diaz and 144 Marquez.
Manny only skipped LWW to fight Oscar. Don't people say he just stopped cutting weight and not really grew much at all??

Cotto, I just see no explanation not even from you for this one. And yes if he could fight Oscar at 147 and not Cotto, there has to be a little picking going on. I'm not going to give him a go if he could fight a non-champ at 147, and not the actually champion.

Clottey, Manny put on a couple of pounds for this one. Maybe he "grew" into the WW division in this one. But, this is the fight where he looked sluggish and slow supposedly due to those extra couple of pounds.

Why did he move up then to fight Margarito if he looked sluggish??
Easy, fighting a guy coming off a career defining KO loss and a fight where he looked past it at 154. For the Vacant belt. Not even a ranked 154 pounder. That's why he "moved" up in weight.

[fan johnny]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

I really don't think Roach is trying to dehydrate Manny's opponents as much a a raisin.
But, there has to be reasons he is fighting DLH 147, Cotto 145, Clottey 147, Mosley 148***

Well let's go through them one by one.

Oscar. At the time of the negotiations Manny was a superfeatherweight, Oscar a junior middleweight. That's a difference of 4 weight divisions! For Manny to climb three and Oscar to drop one seemed to most to be unfairly stacked against Manny. It was Oscar who held the bartering power in that fight and all the prefight criticism was directed against him for picking on such a small guy just to make money. You can't slate Manny for this fight at all.

Cotto, Probably the biggest criticism that could be laid at Pac is this fight. He had fought Oscar at 147 so why not Cotto? Well I would agree that maybe Manny was uncertain he could face a young, tough worldclass natural welterweight and that he wasn't sure if he himself was a natural welterweight. In the event he dominated Miguel and subsequently fought his next fight against Clottey, who is an ever bigger welter than Cotto, at the full welterweight limit. Cotto also only weighed in a single pound less than he did for his own fight with Clottey, he was hardly drained. Personally I am prepared to give a superfeatherweight brave enough to rise through 10 weight divisions and fight the best a pass on asking an opponent to give up a pound.

Clottey. Fought at the full 148 limit

Margaritio, you don't mention him above but the catchweight was to Margarito's advantage not Manny's. Margarito was a career welterweight and was allowed to weigh in over 3lbs heavier than his previous significant fights so that they could fight for a 145 title. On the night Margarito was 17lbs heavier than Manny. If Manny would have fought him at the welterweight limit he would have had a bigger advantage. This catchweight helped Margo not Manny.

Mosley. No catchweight has yet been agreed but again I don't see how it helps Manny. Mosley has been fighting at 147 so why would allowing him to fight higher than that cause him to be weight drained?

People can argue against the purity of the weight classes being tarnished, that's a seperate issue. But the idea that Manny is forcing fighters to lose on the scales just doesn't hold up.

The only fighter dead at the weight was Oscar, and that fight was the result of HIS negotiations.

Well not only that but really Oscar's nutritionist fukd up with the deer/kangaroo meat diet which resulted in him losing muscle mass and not just overall weight. They were more concerned with paying 147lb overages at $1 Million per even a fraction of a pound. Oscar could have easily stepped into the ring with a 10lb weight advantage. Had he not been able to make weight normally it would have been easy to call the fight due to a back injury or similar. Rather than kill his body with the goofy diet.

[Kev]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

I really don't think Roach is trying to dehydrate Manny's opponents as much a a raisin.
But, there has to be reasons he is fighting DLH 147, Cotto 145, Clottey 147, Mosley 148***

Well let's go through them one by one.

Oscar. At the time of the negotiations Manny was a superfeatherweight, Oscar a junior middleweight. That's a difference of 4 weight divisions! For Manny to climb three and Oscar to drop one seemed to most to be unfairly stacked against Manny. It was Oscar who held the bartering power in that fight and all the prefight criticism was directed against him for picking on such a small guy just to make money. You can't slate Manny for this fight at all.

Cotto, Probably the biggest criticism that could be laid at Pac is this fight. He had fought Oscar at 147 so why not Cotto? Well I would agree that maybe Manny was uncertain he could face a young, tough worldclass natural welterweight and that he wasn't sure if he himself was a natural welterweight. In the event he dominated Miguel and subsequently fought his next fight against Clottey, who is an ever bigger welter than Cotto, at the full welterweight limit. Cotto also only weighed in a single pound less than he did for his own fight with Clottey, he was hardly drained. Personally I am prepared to give a superfeatherweight brave enough to rise through 10 weight divisions and fight the best a pass on asking an opponent to give up a pound.

Clottey. Fought at the full 148 limit

Margaritio, you don't mention him above but the catchweight was to Margarito's advantage not Manny's. Margarito was a career welterweight and was allowed to weigh in over 3lbs heavier than his previous significant fights so that they could fight for a 145 title. On the night Margarito was 17lbs heavier than Manny. If Manny would have fought him at the welterweight limit he would have had a bigger advantage. This catchweight helped Margo not Manny.

Mosley. No catchweight has yet been agreed but again I don't see how it helps Manny. Mosley has been fighting at 147 so why would allowing him to fight higher than that cause him to be weight drained?

People can argue against the purity of the weight classes being tarnished, that's a seperate issue. But the idea that Manny is forcing fighters to lose on the scales just doesn't hold up.

The only fighter dead at the weight was Oscar, and that fight was the result of HIS negotiations.

Oscar, at the time Manny was a LW (not super FW) Oscar's last fight was at 150 with Forbes. Day of the fight for Manny was 145+ I believe against Diaz and 144 Marquez.
Manny only skipped LWW to fight Oscar. Don't people say he just stopped cutting weight and not really grew much at all??

Cotto, I just see no explanation not even from you for this one. And yes if he could fight Oscar at 147 and not Cotto, there has to be a little picking going on. I'm not going to give him a go if he could fight a non-champ at 147, and not the actually champion.

Clottey, Manny put on a couple of pounds for this one. Maybe he "grew" into the WW division in this one. But, this is the fight where he looked sluggish and slow supposedly due to those extra couple of pounds.

Why did he move up then to fight Margarito if he looked sluggish??
Easy, fighting a guy coming off a career defining KO loss and a fight where he looked past it at 154. For the Vacant belt. Not even a ranked 154 pounder. That's why he "moved" up in weight.

I said Manny was a superfeatherweight when negotiations for the Oscar fight began which he was. Diaz was part of his journey to Oscar, just as Oscar's fight with Forbes was part of his coming down to Manny.

Manny's weight that you mention is interesting. Manny did indeed climb over the ropes at lightweight, and even superfeather at not much more than he does now.

That's why it's so remarkable. He hasn't reallly gotten any bigger, he's just fighting bigger men. Against Margarito he stepped into the ring weighing only 148lb compared to Margarito's 165lbs.

This also explains his preference for catchweights. Extra weight only favours his opponents as Manny crucially isn't getting any bigger.

Had the Margarito fight been a 154lb weighin the on the night fight weights would probably have been Manny 148 Margarito 168 or even higher. He could have been outweighed by 20 lbs.

[Kev]

Bilbo, no draining accusations from me and I never said Pacquiao asked directly.
There is no direct quote from Manny, so obviously he did not say it.
It is an idea being thrown around his team I imagine.
And I said, a page or two ago, that I was going with how many times Manny AND his goons have asked for catch weights. Goons being his management.
Thought I'd clear somethings up.

Ah I didn't see this response before I posted mine. Ok I accept that you didn't claim that then.

Manny has only ever asked for two catchweight fights though. Talk of others is merely media speculation.

I really don't think Roach is trying to dehydrate Manny's opponents as much a a raisin.
But, there has to be reasons he is fighting DLH 147, Cotto 145, Clottey 147, Mosley 148***

Well let's go through them one by one.

Oscar. At the time of the negotiations Manny was a superfeatherweight, Oscar a junior middleweight. That's a difference of 4 weight divisions! For Manny to climb three and Oscar to drop one seemed to most to be unfairly stacked against Manny. It was Oscar who held the bartering power in that fight and all the prefight criticism was directed against him for picking on such a small guy just to make money. You can't slate Manny for this fight at all.

Cotto, Probably the biggest criticism that could be laid at Pac is this fight. He had fought Oscar at 147 so why not Cotto? Well I would agree that maybe Manny was uncertain he could face a young, tough worldclass natural welterweight and that he wasn't sure if he himself was a natural welterweight. In the event he dominated Miguel and subsequently fought his next fight against Clottey, who is an ever bigger welter than Cotto, at the full welterweight limit. Cotto also only weighed in a single pound less than he did for his own fight with Clottey, he was hardly drained. Personally I am prepared to give a superfeatherweight brave enough to rise through 10 weight divisions and fight the best a pass on asking an opponent to give up a pound.

Clottey. Fought at the full 148 limit

Margaritio, you don't mention him above but the catchweight was to Margarito's advantage not Manny's. Margarito was a career welterweight and was allowed to weigh in over 3lbs heavier than his previous significant fights so that they could fight for a 145 title. On the night Margarito was 17lbs heavier than Manny. If Manny would have fought him at the welterweight limit he would have had a bigger advantage. This catchweight helped Margo not Manny.

Mosley. No catchweight has yet been agreed but again I don't see how it helps Manny. Mosley has been fighting at 147 so why would allowing him to fight higher than that cause him to be weight drained?

People can argue against the purity of the weight classes being tarnished, that's a seperate issue. But the idea that Manny is forcing fighters to lose on the scales just doesn't hold up.

The only fighter dead at the weight was Oscar, and that fight was the result of HIS negotiations.

Well not only that but really Oscar's nutritionist fukd up with the deer/kangaroo meat diet which resulted in him losing muscle mass and not just overall weight. They were more concerned with paying 147lb overages at $1 Million per even a fraction of a pound. Oscar could have easily stepped into the ring with a 10lb weight advantage. Had he not been able to make weight normally it would have been easy to call the fight due to a back injury or similar. Rather than kill his body with the goofy diet.

Also, and thing that people forget is that Oscar actually got into the ring weighing less than he did at the weigh in. He clearly had something going on. I can't remember exactly but I seem to remember him on the night weighing only 142.