Pacquiao-Mosley done deal

[bzkfn]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

[Pavlik]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

Ofcourse they deserve all the credit in the world, it's just whatever PAC does it's never enough. Fairness goes both ways get my drift?

[Pavlik]

Consider this if PAC never fought Hatton when Hatton was the lineal champ at 140 but instead destroys Bradley or Alexander, I'm pretty sure people will say he never beat Hatton and should've fought Hatton instead.
And if PAC instead of fighting Cotto, Marg or Clottey beat Berto first, people will say Berto is UNTESTED.
It'll never satisfy our satiety that's my point.

[Pavlik]

Fans like me dont consider Manny as the GOAT, we just think that whatever he does is not enough for others that's all.

[generalbulldog]

Sure this is a bad fight considering Mosley's career at this point.

But I would like to point out to the revisionist historians out there. Pacquiao didn't force De La Hoya to fight at 147 for a big payday. That's just bullshit. There's a reason why DLH is nicknamed the Goldenboy. No fighter in history has ever had the upperhand in negotiations when negotiating with the Goldenboy. Not Chavez, Whitaker, Tinidad, Vargas, Hopkins, Floyd or Manny. So let's cut that bullshit out.

And another thing Tim Bradley is fighting Alexander at the end of next month, and you have the same people saying he should have fought Bradley, when they didn't bother to check whether or not Bradley is busy with a upcoming fight. But 5 months from now the same people will say Pacquiao ducked Bradley after he fought Margarito.

[bzkfn]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

Ofcourse they deserve all the credit in the world, it's just whatever PAC does it's never enough. Fairness goes both ways get my drift?

Completely. But please realise that most of us believe that Manny is the real deal. He is absolutely tremendous, one of the greatest fighters of all time. However, because of this, while he only has a few fights left in his career, surely you want to see your man tested to the limit. Surely you must understand, that a 40 year old Mosley, who couldn't handle Mayweather's speed, has little chance of challenging Manny. It is not a criticism of Pacquiao's achievements, it is merely a request for a better choice of opponent.

[Kev]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

I think Pavlik makes a very good point actually. In the eyes of the fickle fight fans a fighter really is only as good as his last fight.

For years Floyd was dodging the best welters in Margarito and Mosley. Hatton was unbeatable at light welter, the undisputed Ring champ. Clottey was one of the most underated fighters around (as weirdly is Collazo still because he hasn't had a big fight yet), and they were the kind of fighters Floyd wanted nothing off.

Then fast forward a couple of years and because they have since suffered losses they are just fodder for a cherry picking Filipino. Beating them means nothing, hell any decent fighter should be able to knock them out.

Right now it's guys like Bradley or Berto, or Martinez that Manny is avoiding (not counting Marquez) but if Bradley were to lose to Alexander, or Martinez to some other middleweight then they will be nothing fighters once again, and people will groan if Manny fights them.

Look at Paul Williams, knocked out by Martinez and now written off as finished. Pavlik is finished. Mosley is finished.

Hopkins was finished yet again after the second Jones Jr fight and is now back to being truly an all time great who was robbed against Calzaghe and Pascal.

The great thing about armchair fans and internat warriors is their opinions don't have to be permanent. What they say in May can be completely retracted in September.

Personally I don't believe human beings decline in skills over the period of a summer, or only have a period of 16 months where they are good at what they do, but that is the mindset of the average forum posting boxing fan.

[Pavlik]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

I think Pavlik makes a very good point actually. In the eyes of the fickle fight fans a fighter really is only as good as his last fight.

For years Floyd was dodging the best welters in Margarito and Mosley. Hatton was unbeatable at light welter, the undisputed Ring champ. Clottey was one of the most underated fighters around (as weirdly is Collazo still because he hasn't had a big fight yet), and they were the kind of fighters Floyd wanted nothing off.

Then fast forward a couple of years and because they have since suffered losses they are just fodder for a cherry picking Filipino. Beating them means nothing, hell any decent fighter should be able to knock them out.

Right now it's guys like Bradley or Berto, or Martinez that Manny is avoiding (not counting Marquez) but if Bradley were to lose to Alexander, or Martinez to some other middleweight then they will be nothing fighters once again, and people will groan if Manny fights them.

Look at Paul Williams, knocked out by Martinez and now written off as finished. Pavlik is finished. Mosley is finished.

Hopkins was finished yet again after the second Jones Jr fight and is now back to being truly an all time great who was robbed against Calzaghe and Pascal.

The great thing about armchair fans and internat warriors is their opinions don't have to be permanent. What they say in May can be completely retracted in September.

Personally I don't believe human beings decline in skills over the period of a summer, or only have a period of 16 months where they are good at what they do, but that is the mindset of the average forum posting boxing fan.

Thanks Bilbo.

[Pavlik]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

Ofcourse they deserve all the credit in the world, it's just whatever PAC does it's never enough. Fairness goes both ways get my drift?

Completely. But please realise that most of us believe that Manny is the real deal. He is absolutely tremendous, one of the greatest fighters of all time. However, because of this, while he only has a few fights left in his career, surely you want to see your man tested to the limit. Surely you must understand, that a 40 year old Mosley, who couldn't handle Mayweather's speed, has little chance of challenging Manny. It is not a criticism of Pacquiao's achievements, it is merely a request for a better choice of opponent.

That I completely understand

[bzkfn]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

I think Pavlik makes a very good point actually. In the eyes of the fickle fight fans a fighter really is only as good as his last fight.

For years Floyd was dodging the best welters in Margarito and Mosley. Hatton was unbeatable at light welter, the undisputed Ring champ. Clottey was one of the most underated fighters around (as weirdly is Collazo still because he hasn't had a big fight yet), and they were the kind of fighters Floyd wanted nothing off.

Then fast forward a couple of years and because they have since suffered losses they are just fodder for a cherry picking Filipino. Beating them means nothing, hell any decent fighter should be able to knock them out.

Right now it's guys like Bradley or Berto, or Martinez that Manny is avoiding (not counting Marquez) but if Bradley were to lose to Alexander, or Martinez to some other middleweight then they will be nothing fighters once again, and people will groan if Manny fights them.

Look at Paul Williams, knocked out by Martinez and now written off as finished. Pavlik is finished. Mosley is finished.

Hopkins was finished yet again after the second Jones Jr fight and is now back to being truly an all time great who was robbed against Calzaghe and Pascal.

The great thing about armchair fans and internat warriors is their opinions don't have to be permanent. What they say in May can be completely retracted in September.

Personally I don't believe human beings decline in skills over the period of a summer, or only have a period of 16 months where they are good at what they do, but that is the mindset of the average forum posting boxing fan.

I completely agree that fans are fickle, but you can pick an idiot apart with facts. Anyone who claims Manny is ducking/not fighting the best is a complete idiot. Just putting linking to boxrec an checking his resume is proof of that. On first read of Pavlik's post though, it came across to me that he was making a defensive statement that Pacquiao was no longer on top of his game when he clearly is. Also, to my knowledge, I didn't see any recent posts in this thread claiming he was ducking. They are debating whether or not Mosley is the correct choice of opponent.

[Julius Rain]

For those who say this is a gimmie or just a stay busy or a money making fight...

Well come on let's keep it real so were Clottey and Margarito.

I actually agree with you Mick. I think there's really nothing else out there for pac but Mayweather. Same goes for Floyd. I dont think Timothy, Alexander, Berto, JMM (floyd already proved) or anybody else is anything but a gimmie or just stay busy or a money making fight.

The only real task would be above welterweight -> Sergio Martinez

How can anyone say that a potential Marquez fight at 140 is a "gimmie"? That is an outrageous statement considering that Marquez has had two fights with Manny, gone down 4 times and yet still outboxed him in the vast majority of the rounds. Also Bradley is young, fast, skilled and undefeated. Berto considerably less so, but still undefeated. And we are to believe that Clottey, Margarito and a slumped Mosley are the best challenges we can give Manny?

Everyone would like to see the Mayweather fight, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't more viable options out there than what we are currently being spoonfed. Martinez at 154 would be great too, but at WW and below there are still good fights to be had.

Miles your saying Marquez would be a tough fight for Pac at 140? Thats your opinion and I guess your entitled to it. Let JMM fight at 140 first before you truly delude yourself. I too have an opinion, I think pac beats JMM in a third fight and I know what you will say afterwards. JMM is old, past it, out of his weight class. Its the same song. I am not saying Mosley is a better fight, but at least Mosley isn't removed from his weight class. I don't think you can use that one on this fight.

As for the other 140 pounders, from what I've seen I think they are all a level below Pac and Floyd but there names do not carry the same weight as a Cotto, Margarito, Mosley. Pac is the biggest name in boxing, he will be pit against other big names. Timothy, Alexander, Berto and anyone else are just not there yet. But I think eventually pac will run out of big name fighters and will get to these guys if the Floyd fight continues to stall.

I stick to my opinion, the only real fight out there for Pac is Floyd, anything else in WW is a stay busy, money maker fight.

I think Marquez has a couple of fights in him max. It would be interesting to see him step up to 140 in his next fight, but there is no denying that Marquez is the one fighter above all others that has given Pac the most problems. Morales did it the one time, but Marquez has won the majority of the rounds twice in a row. Marquez deserves respect and more so considering most writers thought he won the last fight. We are all entitled to our opinions and I haven't even said that Marquez beats Pacquiao at 140, but it is most definitely a credible fight. The facts speak for themselves. These guys have history and Marquez has outboxed Pacquiao in both fights. The only doubting factor is the weight, but if Manny were to come down in weight and Marquez go up then that evens the playing field somewhat. Noone realistically expects Manny to boil down to 135 at this stage and it is ludicrious to even go there.

There is a trend in Pac's recent opponents and that is the fact that Arum owns them all. We are only getting Mosley/Pac because Mosley went rogue and against the wishes of Goldenboy who wanted the fight for Marquez. To suggest that Margarito deserved a shot at Pac is crazy talk. What has Mosley done recently to deserve a shot either? Marquez should have had his shot this time out. There was a demand from the fans who know the history and once again Arum and Pac have given a big middle finger to the expectations of the fans. Nobody is getting any fun from the current match up if it goes according to how many of us fear it will.

Of all the fighters at 140, I think Tim Bradley is the real deal. Sure, maybe he isn't quite known enough, but I think all the ingredients of a quality fighter are there. Tim Bradley would certainly be more deserving of a shot than Clottey was. Face it, we are being dicked around by Arum and Pac again and people keep on trying to justify bare faced crookery.

You're right about Marquez being the guy who has trouble pac twice. There is no denying that. There is no denying the fact that JMM is going down more often in fights and is fighting a more aggressive fight. There is no denying the other fact that, the welterweight pacman is not the same featherweight JMM had fought. The other fact that you can not deny is pac have proven himself at welterweight while JMM has not.

Also Miles, you have such a big problem with pac having fights at catch weights. What did you think about the JMM/Floyd match up. Or the fact that you are suggesting pac to have a fight with JMM at well a catchweight 140? JMM is not a 140 fighter and pac is a 147 fighter which technically would be a catch weight for that match up, right?

I hope JMMs next fight is at 140 and not against the likes of Katsidis, Diaz who are guys suited for his style. 3 of his last 4 fights have been against those two and its been inside 2 years. While pac has gone up and dominated 6 fights since they last fought. You like to criticize who pac fights, well if you loook at their resume aside from floyd (who was a sound lost) on JMMs resume, pacs oppenent beats JMMs p4p or no matter how you look at it.

Diaz
Katsidis
Casamayor

Are those three wins better then

Margarito
Clottey
Cotto
Hatton
Dela Hoya

Not even close. I dont want take away how impressive JMM look going up and getting those wins, but you can not compare his wins over pacs wins. You want to call pacs oppenent old, wash up, drain, or any other excuse you can come up with. How about Casa who was 2 fights remove from a lost to Santa Cruz, a fight remove from struggling to katsidis who yes is JMMs last fight. Now why would JMM fight a guy who was already Ko'd by the guy who he tko'd Casa? Wait infact why would he rematch a guy who he already ko'd DIAz!!!!! In the last two years, JMM have only won fights against Diaz and Katsidis. In the last two years Pac have wins over Dela Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito. Whos selection of oppenent in the past two years has look shitty now MIles?

You like criticizes pacs opponents or the fights he takes well take a look at other fighters. JMM is actually worst.

Julius, just out of interest, do you have an issue with Pac-Marquez at Welter? Because while I agree with Miles that a fight at 140lb would be more of an even fight, I accept that this is boxing, and when you hold the marbles, you get to make demands and personally, while people think JMM has no business above Lightweight, I think he does...if Pacquiao is the opponent. JMM has proved himself against Pacquiao twice and that for me is enough to warrant a 3rd fight.

I do not have an issue with Pac-JMM at 140, I actually think thats the only weight they can have a fight at but JMM has not yet fought there. I would agree with you about the two close fights with Pac warrants a third with JMM but at 140 I would prefer to see JMM fight there first. I'm just sick of people making excuses and taking credit from where it is due. If they fight at 140 without JMM doing anything at 140 in the past and pac totally dominates him, they will just say JMM is out of his weigth class and pac just cherry picked a lightweight to fight at junior welters.

I would like to see JMM get a win over a decent name at 140 first, for the mean time pac will fight Mosley at 147. If JMM does great at 140 then I definitely think a JMM Pac III at 140 is a must.

[JT Rock]

As far as Pac vs Bradley goes, I think people are getting way ahead of themselves on Bradley. IMO he is going to get stopped late against Alexander anyway

[:::PSL:::]

As far as Pac vs Bradley goes, I think people are getting way ahead of themselves on Bradley. IMO he is going to get stopped late against Alexander anyway

I have the same opinion.

[Kev]

It's amazing just a few years back Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosely ruled the welters now since they have lost each before facing PAC now they're not ENOUGH for Manny.
I'll reverse the scenario PAC just like what Max Kellerman said got hit more and does not look like the PAC from 2 yrs ago, IF PAC LOSES IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT CREDIT ANY OF THEM BECAUSE PAC IS NOT IN HIS PRIME ANYMORE.

You're kidding me right? The guy is currently the best fighter in the sport, so if anyone beat him, then that would be a great achievement. I am no hater of Manny Pacquiao, I love watching the guy fight, but truly stupid statements like this make me want him to fail.

I think Pavlik makes a very good point actually. In the eyes of the fickle fight fans a fighter really is only as good as his last fight.

For years Floyd was dodging the best welters in Margarito and Mosley. Hatton was unbeatable at light welter, the undisputed Ring champ. Clottey was one of the most underated fighters around (as weirdly is Collazo still because he hasn't had a big fight yet), and they were the kind of fighters Floyd wanted nothing off.

Then fast forward a couple of years and because they have since suffered losses they are just fodder for a cherry picking Filipino. Beating them means nothing, hell any decent fighter should be able to knock them out.

Right now it's guys like Bradley or Berto, or Martinez that Manny is avoiding (not counting Marquez) but if Bradley were to lose to Alexander, or Martinez to some other middleweight then they will be nothing fighters once again, and people will groan if Manny fights them.

Look at Paul Williams, knocked out by Martinez and now written off as finished. Pavlik is finished. Mosley is finished.

Hopkins was finished yet again after the second Jones Jr fight and is now back to being truly an all time great who was robbed against Calzaghe and Pascal.

The great thing about armchair fans and internat warriors is their opinions don't have to be permanent. What they say in May can be completely retracted in September.

Personally I don't believe human beings decline in skills over the period of a summer, or only have a period of 16 months where they are good at what they do, but that is the mindset of the average forum posting boxing fan.

I completely agree that fans are fickle, but you can pick an idiot apart with facts. Anyone who claims Manny is ducking/not fighting the best is a complete idiot. Just putting linking to boxrec an checking his resume is proof of that. On first read of Pavlik's post though, it came across to me that he was making a defensive statement that Pacquiao was no longer on top of his game when he clearly is. Also, to my knowledge, I didn't see any recent posts in this thread claiming he was ducking. They are debating whether or not Mosley is the correct choice of opponent.

I think he's just highlighting the fickleness of fans. Once a fighter loses he's a bum, shot, finished, a corpse and Manny beating him means nothing. So he's just being sarcastic in saying that if Manny ever loses he will just say well he was past his prime, shot, finished, too old etc and thus beating him at that point meant nothing.

Regarding Shane. It's not the hardest available fight but Manny is in his 30's and has just torn through 4 weight classes in the past few years beating a who's who of the best fighters of the last several years around the welterweight division.

And contrary to many fan's, the goal for Manny and his team is for him to have a sucessful career maximising his earning, long term legacy against name opponents, and to keep winning.

A lot of fans just like to imagine the toughest opponent they can who be most likely to beat him and demand he face him.

Well Manny will do, when the money is right, but he's less interested in getting beat than his haters are and so he understandably factors in risk vs reward.

Every fighter does that, they would be insane not to.

Why fight an unproven fighter like Bradley, Berto, Martinez when the jury is still out on them and they are not household names? Better to let them grow their reputations and prove themselves and then fight in a bigger fight.

Coming after Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito I'm perfectly happy for a post 30 year old Manny, who is also now a full time politician to take a slightly easier fight for decent money whilst we wait for Floyd to sort himself out and see how the chips fall later on.

Contrary to the haters interperatations Manny didn't have an easy night against Margarito. That fight was a hard fight for him. He got hit, he got hurt at times and had to suck it up.

Mosley may be a foregone conclusion for us, and I too think Manny will win, but for Manny in there fighting the fight, taking the shots it won't be an easy fight. Mosley is a Hall of Famer, with vast experience, knockout power he's still never been stopped or ruined in a fight yet. It's a fight Manny should win. But Mosley is a live underdog, and a tough challenge.

Look at Marquez Diaz 2 or Marquez Katsidis. We all knew they were dead cert wins for Marqyuez. But he had to dig deep to win them. He didn't win by just turning up.

That will likely be the same here for Manny against Mosley.

When has Shane been in a dull fight? Even against Mora he piled it on in the championship rounds to the extent that Merchant and Kellerman were gushing in their praise of him.

He's a great fighter, crowd pleasing, never gives up, always has the power to turn a fight, and deserves a chance, just like all great old fighters before him to be the old fox underdog trying to turn back the hands of time.

Ali, Foreman, Hopkins, Jones Jr, Oscar, Barrera, Morrales etc all got the opportunity to be the old warhorse, why not Mosley?

I think it will be a very crowd friendly fight, and if Manny did dominate and destroy him it would be to his credit as nobody has done that yet.

[Julius Rain]

As far as Pac vs Bradley goes, I think people are getting way ahead of themselves on Bradley. IMO he is going to get stopped late against Alexander anyway

I think if JMM can handle the weight at 140, he beats Bradley.