Lucian bute vs Carl froch

[hitmanhatton]

in the froch - magee fight, froch did look unmotivated and maybe arrogant in knowing he was a level above perhaps rightly with hindsight

bute is over rated and both froch and ward beat him, maybe kessler too depending how much he has left when he returns to the ring

lucian should stick to fighting bums in canada

[Kev]

in the froch - magee fight, froch did look unmotivated and maybe arrogant in knowing he was a level above perhaps rightly with hindsight

bute is over rated and both froch and ward beat him, maybe kessler too depending how much he has left when he returns to the ring

lucian should stick to fighting bums in canada

I like to say things like that about Bute too, but there's no denying the guy has skills. He's capable of winning all those fights imo.

I think his durability and chin are questionable, but that aside he barely seems to lose a round against all of his opponents so far.

His wins over Bika, Miranda and Andrade (well second win) were very impressive. I'd expect Froch and Ward to beat those guys (well Ward has beat two) but none of them would do more impressive jobs than Bute (the Andrade first fight last round calamity aside).

Froch and Ward would both struggle more against the above three names than Bute has imo. This doesn't mean he's better than them but I think he can beat up B level fighters easier than they do.

He has more power than Ward, and he's technically better than Froch. I think he lacks Froch's toughness however and Ward I think is more skilful and the best fighter of the three, in that, like B Hop, Mayweather and Tim Bradley he knows all the tricks and can outpsych, and use his head, elbows and all those tricks in the ring to frustrate his opponent. Not calling him a dirty fighter, I think it's ring smarts, and Ward has them more than the other two, which is why he will prove himself number 1 imo.

[ICB]

in the froch - magee fight, froch did look unmotivated and maybe arrogant in knowing he was a level above perhaps rightly with hindsight

bute is over rated and both froch and ward beat him, maybe kessler too depending how much he has left when he returns to the ring

lucian should stick to fighting bums in canada

I like to say things like that about Bute too, but there's no denying the guy has skills. He's capable of winning all those fights imo.

I think his durability and chin are questionable, but that aside he barely seems to lose a round against all of his opponents so far.

His wins over Bika, Miranda and Andrade (well second win) were very impressive. I'd expect Froch and Ward to beat those guys (well Ward has beat two) but none of them would do more impressive jobs than Bute (the Andrade first fight last round calamity aside).

Froch and Ward would both struggle more against the above three names than Bute has imo. This doesn't mean he's better than them but I think he can beat up B level fighters easier than they do.

He has more power than Ward, and he's technically better than Froch. I think he lacks Froch's toughness however and Ward I think is more skilful and the best fighter of the three, in that, like B Hop, Mayweather and Tim Bradley he knows all the tricks and can outpsych, and use his head, elbows and all those tricks in the ring to frustrate his opponent. Not calling him a dirty fighter, I think it's ring smarts, and Ward has them more than the other two, which is why he will prove himself number 1 imo.

Seems like you changed your mind a bit Bilbo good to see, Lucian Bute has some underrated wins. Against fighters like Salem, Zuniga, and its the way he done it.

These guys are very tough Kabary Salem, went 12 rounds with a prime Joe Calzaghe. and knocked him down hard aswell, plus he'd never been stopped Lucian Bute was the first one to do it.

Fulgencio Zuniga floored Kelly Pavlik, and gave him a good hard fight. And was stopped on cuts not legitmately KO'ed like Lucian Bute did impressively. And you see how tough Fulgencia Zuniga was in his last fight.

Because he isn't really a Light Heavyweight, and he went the distance with the hard punching Tavoris Cloud. That shows you that it is impressive to stop Fulgencio Zuniga in only 4 rounds and with a body shot aswell.

I agree he hasn't got that real A+ win yet, but i think the way he's beaten fighters like the one's i mentioned and fighters like Berrio, Andrade, show's he is class he just needs a fight against someone like Mikkel Kessler to raise his status now though.

[Kev]

in the froch - magee fight, froch did look unmotivated and maybe arrogant in knowing he was a level above perhaps rightly with hindsight

bute is over rated and both froch and ward beat him, maybe kessler too depending how much he has left when he returns to the ring

lucian should stick to fighting bums in canada

I like to say things like that about Bute too, but there's no denying the guy has skills. He's capable of winning all those fights imo.

I think his durability and chin are questionable, but that aside he barely seems to lose a round against all of his opponents so far.

His wins over Bika, Miranda and Andrade (well second win) were very impressive. I'd expect Froch and Ward to beat those guys (well Ward has beat two) but none of them would do more impressive jobs than Bute (the Andrade first fight last round calamity aside).

Froch and Ward would both struggle more against the above three names than Bute has imo. This doesn't mean he's better than them but I think he can beat up B level fighters easier than they do.

He has more power than Ward, and he's technically better than Froch. I think he lacks Froch's toughness however and Ward I think is more skilful and the best fighter of the three, in that, like B Hop, Mayweather and Tim Bradley he knows all the tricks and can outpsych, and use his head, elbows and all those tricks in the ring to frustrate his opponent. Not calling him a dirty fighter, I think it's ring smarts, and Ward has them more than the other two, which is why he will prove himself number 1 imo.

Seems like you changed your mind a bit Bilbo good to see, Lucian Bute has some underrated wins. Against fighters like Salem, Zuniga, and its the way he done it.

These guys are very tough Kabary Salem, went 12 rounds with a prime Joe Calzaghe. and knocked him down hard aswell, plus he'd never been stopped Lucian Bute was the first one to do it.

Fulgencio Zuniga floored Kelly Pavlik, and gave him a good hard fight. And was stopped on cuts not legitmately KO'ed like Lucian Bute did impressively. And you see how tough Fulgencia Zuniga was in his last fight.

Because he isn't really a Light Heavyweight, and he went the distance with the hard punching Tavoris Cloud. That shows you that it is impressive to stop Fulgencio Zuniga in only 4 rounds and with a body shot aswell.

I agree he hasn't got that real A+ win yet, but i think the way he's beaten fighters like the one's i mentioned and fighters like Berrio, Andrade, show's he is class he just needs a fight against someone like Mikkel Kessler to raise his status now though.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still be cheering for Froch to beat the snot out of him, but you can't just dismiss him and hope to sound at all credible. The way he has been getting these guys out he's clearly very accurate, and he hits hard. In fact he might be the biggest puncher in the division.

My dislike for him, much like Donaire had nothing to do with him directly, but rather the fact that the Ring ranked them both so highly before they had earnt their accolades.

It think it's clear however that next year either Bute or Ward will go on to be the next big star. I think one of them goes top 5 p4p by next summer.

My money is still on Ward, but he didn't over impress against Bika.

I favour Froch over Bute more than Ward. I think he will beat Glen Johnson but I don't give him a big shot of beating Ward.

[Rantcatrat]

in the froch - magee fight, froch did look unmotivated and maybe arrogant in knowing he was a level above perhaps rightly with hindsight

bute is over rated and both froch and ward beat him, maybe kessler too depending how much he has left when he returns to the ring

lucian should stick to fighting bums in canada

I like to say things like that about Bute too, but there's no denying the guy has skills. He's capable of winning all those fights imo.

I think his durability and chin are questionable, but that aside he barely seems to lose a round against all of his opponents so far.

His wins over Bika, Miranda and Andrade (well second win) were very impressive. I'd expect Froch and Ward to beat those guys (well Ward has beat two) but none of them would do more impressive jobs than Bute (the Andrade first fight last round calamity aside).

Froch and Ward would both struggle more against the above three names than Bute has imo. This doesn't mean he's better than them but I think he can beat up B level fighters easier than they do.

He has more power than Ward, and he's technically better than Froch. I think he lacks Froch's toughness however and Ward I think is more skilful and the best fighter of the three, in that, like B Hop, Mayweather and Tim Bradley he knows all the tricks and can outpsych, and use his head, elbows and all those tricks in the ring to frustrate his opponent. Not calling him a dirty fighter, I think it's ring smarts, and Ward has them more than the other two, which is why he will prove himself number 1 imo.

This is a spot-on post. It's objective and is honest to both guys.

Bute has one of the best body shots in the business. If you are a fan of body shots, I don't know how you don't like Bute - Bute's uppercut to the solar plexis is damn near perfect. It took him a while to find his mark against Magee, but when he found it, all I can say is: wow. I actually can't remember the last time Bute knocked someone out with a head shot. Seriously.

Froch has that intangible grit and toughness that is unteachable. The British posters on this board hate Tim Bradley for some reason (probably because their adoration of Khan), but Bradley has that same hunger for winning that Froch has. They go into every fight oozing confidence and they fight cocky even when their opponent is faster or slicker or more powerful. In that respect, Bute hasn't met someone like Froch yet.

In my opinion, this fight will come down to timing. Kessler and Bute will happen in the fall of this year. Assuming Bute beats Kessler, and I believe he should be the favorite to do so, Bute and Froch could meet at the end of 2012, after Bute has faced Ward, and lost.

Froch on the other hand has a tough schedule too. He goes up against Glen Johnson, which is never a walk in the park, and then in all likelihood, faces Ward. I believe he will suffer his first bad loss against Ward, and that his career will take a turn for the worse at that point.

When Froch and Bute actually meet, it will be on different terms than today, and Bute will have the better trajectory.

[Rantcatrat]

Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.

[erics44]

Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.

that seems to be the opinion of a few

and that could be right if they fought each other

but officially bute cannot be above either ward or froch if we consider their records

bute hasnt been in with the opponents that either man has so couldnt be ranked above either man

froch has been in with better opponents than ward but you could argue the kessler fight puts ward above

im not so sure that would be the case, id like to see ward come out with the same run of results if he had fought the same opponents as froch

[Rantcatrat]

Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.

that seems to be the opinion of a few

and that could be right if they fought each other

but officially bute cannot be above either ward or froch if we consider their records

bute hasnt been in with the opponents that either man has so couldnt be ranked above either man

froch has been in with better opponents than ward but you could argue the kessler fight puts ward above

im not so sure that would be the case, id like to see ward come out with the same run of results if he had fought the same opponents as froch

completely agree with that. froch has had a tougher schedule than all of them if he had just beat Kessler, he would be p4p top ten.

[CFH]

Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.

that seems to be the opinion of a few

and that could be right if they fought each other

but officially bute cannot be above either ward or froch if we consider their records

bute hasnt been in with the opponents that either man has so couldnt be ranked above either man

froch has been in with better opponents than ward but you could argue the kessler fight puts ward above

im not so sure that would be the case, id like to see ward come out with the same run of results if he had fought the same opponents as froch

completely agree with that. froch has had a tougher schedule than all of them if he had just beat Kessler, he would be p4p top ten.

IMO he did beat Kessler (though I also feel he lost to Dirrell) and I would have no problem with anyone including Froch in their P4P list. That being said, I think Bute is the more talented fighter and I think he has the ability to establish himself as the premier fighter in a very deep division, but time will tell I guess and he's not getting any younger fighting gimme opponents in his hometown. He's very Calzaghe-esque in a way, but you could perhaps make an argument that there are more legitimate fights out there for Bute than there were for JC.

[Dropanuke]

The Magee froch fought was younger and buteos southpaw so wasn't awkward for him like it was for froch

[hitmanhatton]

Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.

WHAT!!

what has bute achieved in the division ....

froch has beat taylor, abraham, dirrell and the current #1 at 175 in pascal.. along with a close loss to kessler in denmark and you have him behind a guy that was practically ko'd by andrade for all but a bit of home town reffing

[Rantcatrat]

Just so we're clear, I agree with Bilbo. The division's order is Ward, Bute and then Froch.

WHAT!!

what has bute achieved in the division ....

froch has beat taylor, abraham, dirrell and the current #1 at 175 in pascal.. along with a close loss to kessler in denmark and you have him behind a guy that was practically ko'd by andrade for all but a bit of home town reffing

Maybe it turns out I wasn't clear at all I believe the order of the division in terms of talent is Ward, Bute and then Froch, but as far as records, its Ward/Froch, then Bute. No doubt whatsoever. If Froch had beat Kessler, it would be hands down Froch, Ward, Bute.

Hitman - you always forget that Bute knocked out Andrade in their second meeting. Lest you also forget, he won 10 rounds of 12 in their first fight too. In fact, if you look at his opponents, Bute has barely lost a round in the last few years. Really, he hasn't clearly lost a round besides the last two to Andrade in their first fight. You also minimize the fact that he then took the rematch with Andrade just to settle any controversy about the first fight. He didn't have to do that because officially he got the W. What was the point of doing that if people like you continue to bring up the first fight? The fact that he did do that should be testament to the quality of sportsman that he is. That you consistently bring up the first match with Andrade really is completely baffling.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

The British posters on this board hate Tim Bradley for some reason (probably because their adoration of Khan),

Sorry man, I think you need to readdress that theory. Completely untrue!
NO ONE I know of has ANY kind of adoration for Khan. And as for Bradley... Well, I guess you must know better than me?

[Rantcatrat]

The British posters on this board hate Tim Bradley for some reason (probably because their adoration of Khan),

Sorry man, I think you need to readdress that theory. Completely untrue!
NO ONE I know of has ANY kind of adoration for Khan. And as for Bradley... Well, I guess you must know better than me?

It was a provocative statement. I just feel like a lot of British posters hate on Bradley. Maybe I could be wrong.

Don't you see the similarities though of Carl Froch and Tim Bradley in that they both have this toughness and grit that sees them through tough fights?