Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145

[Gandalf]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?

You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.

If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.

What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.

It is an immediate disadvantage.

[Kev]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?

You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.

If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.

What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.

It is an immediate disadvantage.

He's agreed to come down to 144. That's in line with the other fighters Manny fought, like Cotto and Margarito who you all said were massively weight drained corpses as a result of this cruel, manipulative cheating by team Pacman.

How can you with a straight face claim it was wrong for Manny to fight bigger guys at catchweight as the advantage was too strongly in his favour and now when he himself is giving up weight argue that once again it is in his favour.

The point you are missing is that the reason you always think it favours Pac is because of the result, i.e he destroys everybody he fights.

Now to unbiased observer this would be a sign of his greatness, but as you have already rejected that notion 'a priori' you have to reject that self evident conclusion and instead go with weight manipulation. Manny is amazing at 147 because he merely adjusts to the weight better than Marquez who, despite being better than Manny cannot fight bigger men as well because of some unfortunate makeup in his biochemistry,

It's absurd.

Both men will likely weigh in within a pound of each on the night, you are just already making excuses to detract from Manny's coming win.

[ICB]

JMM when he rehydrates is probably close to 142 or something like that, i just think he's more shopworn now. But im still hoping my boy gives him a good go.

[Gandalf]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?

You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.

If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.

What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.

It is an immediate disadvantage.

He's agreed to come down to 144. That's in line with the other fighters Manny fought, like Cotto and Margarito who you all said were massively weight drained corpses as a result of this cruel, manipulative cheating by team Pacman.

How can you with a straight face claim it was wrong for Manny to fight bigger guys at catchweight as the advantage was too strongly in his favour and now when he himself is giving up weight argue that once again it is in his favour.

The point you are missing is that the reason you always think it favours Pac is because of the result, i.e he destroys everybody he fights.

Now to unbiased observer this would be a sign of his greatness, but as you have already rejected that notion 'a priori' you have to reject that self evident conclusion and instead go with weight manipulation. Manny is amazing at 147 because he merely adjusts to the weight better than Marquez who, despite being better than Manny cannot fight bigger men as well because of some unfortunate makeup in his biochemistry,

It's absurd.

Both men will likely weigh in within a pound of each on the night, you are just already making excuses to detract from Manny's coming win.

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

[killersheep]

As long as the fight happens I'm happy. That and I hope it's for the middleweight Diamond Belt, that would really make it worth it.

[CutMeMick]

As long as the fight happens I'm happy. That and I hope it's for the middleweight Diamond Belt, that would really make it worth it.

I like it. Winner also becomes "Super Ultimate Champion"...

[Gandalf]

If they both come into the ring at the same weight then I can't complain really, but Marquez having to weigh in so much heavier than at any time beyond Mayweather and being so much older makes me fear the worst.

As a boxing fan, all I want to see is good fights and that basically means a few compromises to give the fans a great fight and in return the fighters take home their massive paychecks.

What I don't like is fighters who have become too powerful picking and choosing their opponents and playing games with weights. And that is what Manny has become. In time it will cloud his greatness.

[IamInuit]

If they both come into the ring at the same weight then I can't complain really, but Marquez having to weigh in so much heavier than at any time beyond Mayweather and being so much older makes me fear the worst.

As a boxing fan, all I want to see is good fights and that basically means a few compromises to give the fans a great fight and in return the fighters take home their massive paychecks.

What I don't like is fighters who have become too powerful picking and choosing their opponents and playing games with weights. And that is what Manny has become. In time it will cloud his greatness.

Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?

[InTheNeutralCorner]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

[Gandalf]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.

Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.

Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.

Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.

Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.

Did you ever mention that Oscar will be weight drained BEFORE he fought Manny? Or did you just based that opinion after seeing how Manny dominated Oscar? If it had been more of a competitive fight because Manny did not carry his speed and power at that weight, would you still have thought that Oscar was weight drained?

Let's say Manny went down to 140 and was dominated by Juan Manuel. Would you say that Manny has been weight drained because he hasn't fought at that weight for some time? I don't think so.

[Gandalf]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.

Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.

Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.

Did you ever mention that Oscar will be weight drained BEFORE he fought Manny? Or did you just based that opinion after seeing how Manny dominated Oscar? If it had been more of a competitive fight because Manny did not carry his speed and power at that weight, would you still have thought that Oscar is weight drained?

Let's say Manny went down to 140 and was dominated by Juan Manuel. Would you say that Manny has been weight drained because he hasn't fought at that weight for some time? I don't think so.

Have I been spreading the Oscar weight drained argument? It was certainly a reason, but as I have highlighted it was not the sole reason for the win. It was about two fighters making a compromise and that is what all of my arguments are about. Compromises. One with too much power compromising with the other. With the new Manny fight there is NO compromise.

If Manny were to fight at 140, it would be called fair. Otherwise he is simply a fascist and his new job simply gave him the confidence to be so.

[KananKrus]

No issues between men who want to fight... now as for "questionable men" with the faint of heart... that is a whole different ball of wax.

Pac goes believing he'd win against Margarito.

With 150lbs set as the weight limit, Manny came in very light at 144.6 giving away so much weight disadvantage. Did it matter? I guess not! Incidentally Antonio Margarito weighed the maximum 150 lbs and the rest is history.

Now, fast forward. Marquez, the brilliant Mexican warrior believes he has never lost to Pac, including this third one scheduled in early November. Should the catch weight issues/discrepancies matter? It should not!

He should just follow Pac's lead towards his perspective regarding weight issues.

He definitely matches Pacquiao's confidence at winning this fight, why not go with that strong belief to match Pac's indifference to indiscretions towards weight disadvantages? They'd weigh almost equal fight night anyway!

'Thing is... I see much of the apprehension "only" from nervous fans really, rather than from the protagonists. LOL!