Pacman vs JMM 11/5 2011 at.........145

[ElTerribleMorales]

I'm not gonna go back and forth with all this weight bullshit...

The fight is on and Nov. 5th can't come soon enough for me.
I'll let JMM do the talking in the ring for me.

Juan como me dijiste una vez en Las Vegas despues de tu pelea contro Victor Polo.
Peleo con el corazon y nunca pierdo la fe, porque la virgencita siempre esta con migo.

Guerra Juan Manuel! Hasta al final...

asi se habla coño!!!

[InTheNeutralCorner]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

[InTheNeutralCorner]

This is such a nonsense argument.

Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.

There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.

I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.

Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.

All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.

Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.

All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.

That statement should have already settled the argument but I don't think they still understand.

[Gandalf]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.

Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.

Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.

Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.

Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.

Did you ever mention that Oscar will be weight drained BEFORE he fought Manny? Or did you just based that opinion after seeing how Manny dominated Oscar? If it had been more of a competitive fight because Manny did not carry his speed and power at that weight, would you still have thought that Oscar was weight drained?

Let's say Manny went down to 140 and was dominated by Juan Manuel. Would you say that Manny has been weight drained because he hasn't fought at that weight for some time? I don't think so.

[KananKrus]

No issues between men who want to fight... now as for "questionable men" with the faint of heart... that is a whole different ball of wax.

Pac goes believing he'd win against Margarito.

With 150lbs set as the weight limit, Manny came in very light at 144.6 giving away so much weight disadvantage. Did it matter? I guess not! Incidentally Antonio Margarito weighed the maximum 150 lbs and the rest is history.

Now, fast forward. Marquez, the brilliant Mexican warrior believes he has never lost to Pac, including this third one scheduled in early November. Should the catch weight issues/discrepancies matter? It should not!

He should just follow Pac's lead towards his perspective regarding weight issues.

He definitely matches Pacquiao's confidence at winning this fight, why not go with that strong belief to match Pac's indifference to indiscretions towards weight disadvantages? They'd weigh almost equal fight night anyway!

'Thing is... I see much of the apprehension "only" from nervous fans really, rather than from the protagonists. LOL!

[Gandalf]

My goodness.

He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.

All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.

Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.

What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?

Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.

Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.

Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.

Did you ever mention that Oscar will be weight drained BEFORE he fought Manny? Or did you just based that opinion after seeing how Manny dominated Oscar? If it had been more of a competitive fight because Manny did not carry his speed and power at that weight, would you still have thought that Oscar is weight drained?

Let's say Manny went down to 140 and was dominated by Juan Manuel. Would you say that Manny has been weight drained because he hasn't fought at that weight for some time? I don't think so.

Have I been spreading the Oscar weight drained argument? It was certainly a reason, but as I have highlighted it was not the sole reason for the win. It was about two fighters making a compromise and that is what all of my arguments are about. Compromises. One with too much power compromising with the other. With the new Manny fight there is NO compromise.

If Manny were to fight at 140, it would be called fair. Otherwise he is simply a fascist and his new job simply gave him the confidence to be so.

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Have I been spreading the Oscar weight drained argument? It was certainly a reason, but as I have highlighted it was not the sole reason for the win. It was about two fighters making a compromise and that is what all of my arguments are about. Compromises. One with too much power compromising with the other. With the new Manny fight there is NO compromise.

If Manny were to fight at 140, it would be called fair. Otherwise he is simply a fascist and his new job simply gave him the confidence to be so.

Like what I said in my early post, if this fight is at 140 Manny will have to lose 5 lbs whereas Juan Manuel will just need to gain 1-2 lbs to be within that same division. And we are just talking about weight-in weight which is more of theatrics. Their actual weight on fight night will not be that much different probably a difference of only 3 lbs. Them fighting at 144 (weight-in) just means that both of them do not need to dehydrate that much to meet the requirement.

It's like both of them already 'almost' rehydrated at the weight-in.

[CutMeMick]

As long as the fight happens I'm happy. That and I hope it's for the middleweight Diamond Belt, that would really make it worth it.

I like it. Winner also becomes "Super Ultimate Champion"...

[Gandalf]

If they both come into the ring at the same weight then I can't complain really, but Marquez having to weigh in so much heavier than at any time beyond Mayweather and being so much older makes me fear the worst.

As a boxing fan, all I want to see is good fights and that basically means a few compromises to give the fans a great fight and in return the fighters take home their massive paychecks.

What I don't like is fighters who have become too powerful picking and choosing their opponents and playing games with weights. And that is what Manny has become. In time it will cloud his greatness.

[mafiajoey]

Manny has to eat 10,000 calories and eat like a whale in order to hit these marks of 145lbs. It's just an excuse to make JMM fight at a disadvantage. Manny could just eat like a normal human and fight at a weight he wouldn't have to gorge at.

[IamInuit]

If they both come into the ring at the same weight then I can't complain really, but Marquez having to weigh in so much heavier than at any time beyond Mayweather and being so much older makes me fear the worst.

As a boxing fan, all I want to see is good fights and that basically means a few compromises to give the fans a great fight and in return the fighters take home their massive paychecks.

What I don't like is fighters who have become too powerful picking and choosing their opponents and playing games with weights. And that is what Manny has become. In time it will cloud his greatness.

Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?

[Gandalf]

If they both come into the ring at the same weight then I can't complain really, but Marquez having to weigh in so much heavier than at any time beyond Mayweather and being so much older makes me fear the worst.

As a boxing fan, all I want to see is good fights and that basically means a few compromises to give the fans a great fight and in return the fighters take home their massive paychecks.

What I don't like is fighters who have become too powerful picking and choosing their opponents and playing games with weights. And that is what Manny has become. In time it will cloud his greatness.

Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?

They should certainly have something in the contract stipulating that on the day neither man be allowed to weigh more than 146 pounds. I just see Marquez putting on that weight as an older man and Manny having already done so as a younger man. Manny is the naturally bigger fighter now. If this wasn't the case then he would have been fighting at LW himself. Manny is a proven WW, whilst Marquez is a proven LW.

Any sensible person can agree that a 140 weigh in would have been fair, what we currently have are the scales turned in Manny's favour. Still, what's done is done.

[miron_lang]

Manny has to eat 10,000 calories and eat like a whale in order to hit these marks of 145lbs. It's just an excuse to make JMM fight at a disadvantage. Manny could just eat like a normal human and fight at a weight he wouldn't have to gorge at.

Valid point.

but the problem is. Pacquiao as general knowledge plans on staying at Welterweight and has been 144-145 range at the scales. If he drops for a single fight say at 140 then the routine will be disrupted.

Yeah its a little sacrifice if we intend to satisfy some forum posters who would love to see him lose. but the reality is he could really be affected not just in the one fight that he will take at 140 BUT after this fight when he needs to be 145 again. see the point?


and the heck he needs to do all this against someone who has been chasing him for but not limited to a payday to add that he had already beaten this fighter makes it EXTREMELY RIDICULOUS




1. Roy looks inhuman at 175 went North and beat a Heavyweight went back and got kayoed silly by men not even worth to be mentioned along him legacy wise.

2. Chrys Byrd Went up went down and looks garbage in an embarrasing KO loss.

3. SRL looks out of it going down from his previous bout againts Terry Norris.


** Both men will be 145 to 148 fight night **

[miron_lang]

I just see Marquez putting on that weight as an older man and Manny having already done so as a younger man.

You typed it like Manny is 25 yrs old

Manny Pacquiao is 32 yrs old with almost 60 bouts.


Yeah Marquez is older but what happened to RING age? are we all going for the calendar age for this match?