But Can We Admit the Fact That...

[ninjaspy3]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

You see, thats just it Miles. I AM thinking. And some of us are refusing to do so.
So I will repeat what point I was trying to make in the post you replied to.
Hunter said that the fights I mentioned ended in KO/TKO, therefore they were better fights, and I pointed out to him that just because a fight ends in KO/TKO does not mean it is a better fight. It is simply his opinion, probably because he personally likes to see KOs, but that does not mean his personal opinion about what makes a fight good is fact.

Now Miles, as to your point, in Haye's non effort, he gave Wlad a better fight than the other oponents which I listed who did try. Do you see what Im getting at now?
It means the fight which you are complaining about is in reality, a better showing than previous opponents even though Haye didnt give a 100% effort.

[Gandalf]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

You see, thats just it Miles. I AM thinking. And some of us are refusing to do so.
So I will repeat what point I was trying to make in the post you replied to.
Hunter said that the fights I mentioned ended in KO/TKO, therefore they were better fights, and I pointed out to him that just because a fight ends in KO/TKO does not mean it is a better fight. It is simply his opinion, probably because he personally likes to see KOs, but that does not mean his personal opinion about what makes a fight good is fact.

Now Miles, as to your point, in Haye's non effort, he gave Wlad a better fight than the other oponents which I listed who did try. Do you see what Im getting at now?
It means the fight which you are complaining about is in reality, a better showing than previous opponents even though Haye didnt give a 100% effort.

I get your point, but it was just such a negative display. I can't give Haye any credit for it. Early on I thought it was decent, but Haye just seemed to give up once he felt some power. It was survival mode and the same thing he has criticised everyone else for. As boxing fans we are quite harsh people, we want to see people go out on their swords. It isn't nice, but it earns respect and it is why top boxers earn so much money. They are expected to give their all. Haye didn't do that and so people are pissed, that's all. I'm sure you see that.

[ninjaspy3]

All of the fights you mentioned resulted in a KO/TKO so of course they were better fights. The other fighters tried to win not tried to finish the fight on their feet like Haye.

Ok, first I will adress this.
Will someone please explain to me the logic that "If a fight ends in KO/TKO, it is a better fight"?
That is an opinion. Specifically, that is your opinion and I am sure that many share this opinion.
However, it is not a fact.

A fight is not necessarily better simply because it ends in a KO/TKO.
For example, sometimes a KO happens almost completely by luck, or accident.
So you would be saying that a fight in which a lucky KO happens is better than say... if there was a highly skilled bout that went to the cards. Or perhaps a fight bedtween 2 tough fighters who simply refused to quit or go down.

So, I hope I beat that horse enough.

But the guy didn't even try to win. I have no idea what horse you are even trying to beat here. It was a crap showing from a now proven mediocre HW.

It was utter crap and there is nothing wrong with telling it how it was.

Almost everyone in the world thinks he sucked except for you, doesn't that make you think a little?

You see, thats just it Miles. I AM thinking. And some of us are refusing to do so.
So I will repeat what point I was trying to make in the post you replied to.
Hunter said that the fights I mentioned ended in KO/TKO, therefore they were better fights, and I pointed out to him that just because a fight ends in KO/TKO does not mean it is a better fight. It is simply his opinion, probably because he personally likes to see KOs, but that does not mean his personal opinion about what makes a fight good is fact.

Now Miles, as to your point, in Haye's non effort, he gave Wlad a better fight than the other oponents which I listed who did try. Do you see what Im getting at now?
It means the fight which you are complaining about is in reality, a better showing than previous opponents even though Haye didnt give a 100% effort.

I get your point, but it was just such a negative display. I can't give Haye any credit for it. Early on I thought it was decent, but Haye just seemed to give up once he felt some power. It was survival mode and the same thing he has criticised everyone else for. As boxing fans we are quite harsh people, we want to see people go out on their swords. It isn't nice, but it earns respect and it is why top boxers earn so much money. They are expected to give their all. Haye didn't do that and so people are pissed, that's all. I'm sure you see that.

I understand. I just think people go a little overboard sometimes.
I mean, thinking realistically, Im sure Haye was taken by surprise at Wlad's skill and speed.
After that, he probably tried to find the best way to fight without getting KOd.

And I know, that sucks for us, the audiance, but honestly, who is really going to stick their chin out there if they have a 2nd option? KOs are generally scored on those who get the fight brought to them, and there is nothing they can do to stop it. Whether by surprise, or by inevitableness of the opponent running them down and cornering them. Or of course, there are those who say "what the hell" and just go out "Gung Ho," forget all else... and get KO'd.

[Spicoli]

Ninja bud did you hurt your toe as well I mean I am as stubborn and loyal as the next guy but really mate you've moved beyond putting lipstick on a pig to going for the full scale fashion show. Respectfully man this is far beyond a reach.

So Haye won a couple rounds. In fantasy land where Unicorns gallop and Championship fights are set for 4 rounds that's something to hang your hat on but the fact that his scale tilts far more convincingly to the 'L' in the biggest fight of his professional life will be first and foremost. I really don't think you do him any favors at all by using some also rans as a measuring stick for his accomplishments vs Wlad where it's as plain as day that his sence of self preservation trumped his confidence and belief in victory. You don't get to to 'kind of' lose like that or be awarded brownie points for moral victory on a Championship elite level.

[ninjaspy3]

Ninja bud did you hurt your toe as well I mean I am as stubborn and loyal as the next guy but really mate you've moved beyond putting lipstick on a pig to going for the full scale fashion show. Respectfully man this is far beyond a reach.

So Haye won a couple rounds. In fantasy land where Unicorns gallop and Championship fights are set for 4 rounds that's something to hang your hat on but the fact that his scale tilts far more convincingly to the 'L' in the biggest fight of his professional life will be first and foremost. I really don't think you do him any favors at all by using some also rans as a measuring stick for his accomplishments vs Wlad where it's as plain as day that his sence of self preservation trumped his confidence and belief in victory. You don't get to to 'kind of' lose like that or be awarded brownie points for moral victory on a Championship elite level.

Im not trying to do Haye any favors. Im posting this because with some of the comments, I feel like maybe somehow people's grip on reality got lost somewhere. As long as we have been watching Wlad fight, as many grim performances as we have seen, and it seemd like everyone has amneisia now, and somehow this is the worst thing that has ever happened. I just think people's negativity toward this fight is ilogical and over the top considering the fights that took place before.

[generalbulldog]

Da Chavs ov Britain r still down wit da Hayemaker. Ya na mean bruv?

[Gandalf]

Da Chavs ov Britain r still down wit da Hayemaker. Ya na mean bruv?

You are starting to annoy me with your anti-Brit thing. The chavs are no different to your trailer trash. Why do you feel the need to constantly attack the Brits? You have a god awful sub population too, and yet you ignore that.

I only ever attack your political elite, but you seem to really hate English people. You are better than that.

[generalbulldog]

Da Chavs ov Britain r still down wit da Hayemaker. Ya na mean bruv?

You are starting to annoy me with your anti-Brit thing. The chavs are no different to your trailer trash. Why do you feel the need to constantly attack the Brits? You have a god awful sub population too, and yet you ignore that.

I only ever attack your political elite, but you seem to really hate English people. You are better than that.

As you Brits say, it's just taking the piss.

[ninjaspy3]

Very well. I give up. But some of you guys should really re-watch some of those "classic" fights.
That may help provide a little perspective.

[El Kabong]

Very well. I give up. But some of you guys should really re-watch some of those "classic" fights.
That may help provide a little perspective.

....Cheer up, there's good news for Haye and his fans.

Odlanier Solis' manager just called Haye out....perfect comeback fight IMO. Avenge an amateur loss, go for a KO vs one of the "heavyweight bums" he called out in the past.

Though I highly doubt 50k show up to watch that....it would still be a good fight for Haye.

[Mars_ax]

Very well. I give up. But some of you guys should really re-watch some of those "classic" fights.
That may help provide a little perspective.

It might help if we knew what the point of your OP was, am I missing something? Those "classic" fights have fuck all to do with the HAREmaker's shitty performance, and Wlad is what he is.

[AdamGB]

Da Chavs ov Britain r still down wit da Hayemaker. Ya na mean bruv?

Most 'Chavs' hate David Haye and wanted to see him knocked out. But with your informed world view you'd know that.

If you were a bit more clued up you'd be able to also see that those two are clearly posing at a fancy dress party or something... that's an extreme parody of Britian's favourite underclass... but even the worst of them don't actually wear giant dollar signs and double hoop ear rings... good god.

[TitoFan]

All this incessant bantering about Haye and Wlad is pointless, really. The fight did NOT live up to pre-fight expectations (oh.... except for Fenster, who knew all along we were all being taken for a ride..... oh, you genius Fenster you). The real loser here was boxing, which as we all know has a dwindling fan base and seriously needs a good "pick-me-up." I imagine if Boxing and the Casual Fan had had a conversation, it must've gone something like this:

Boxing: Pssssst.... hey, don't miss out on the upcoming Wlad-Haye fight. Look at all the highlight reels of Haye knockouts. Look at all the venom Haye is spouting. Look and hear what Haye is promising to do to Wlad. This will be the biggest HW event in years.

Casual Fan: No way! I've been THAT road before. You're just trying to get me interested again, just so I can suffer another disappointment. I thought Wlad vs. Peter was going to be good. I thought Sultan was a real danger to Wlad and would be a good fight. I'm DONE with the heavyweights. There hasn't been anything worth looking at since the Tyson-Lewis-Holyfield days.

Boxing: No.... no..... I really mean it this time. I promise it'll be a good fight. Scout's honor. This guy's fast..... this guy's smart..... this guy's got power. And he ain't scared. Again, hear what he's saying he's going to do to Wlad.

Casual Fan: Aww gee..... I don't know. I'd hate to be disillusioned again. Too many more of these, and I'm gonna swear off boxing altogether. You KNOW how I only care about the heavyweights. As the big guys go.... so does my interest in boxing.

Boxing: You won't regret it.


(Boxing walks off..... a slight smile creeping across its face. In the background, an evil giggling noise can be heard.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Ninja bud did you hurt your toe as well I mean I am as stubborn and loyal as the next guy but really mate you've moved beyond putting lipstick on a pig to going for the full scale fashion show. Respectfully man this is far beyond a reach.

So Haye won a couple rounds. In fantasy land where Unicorns gallop and Championship fights are set for 4 rounds that's something to hang your hat on but the fact that his scale tilts far more convincingly to the 'L' in the biggest fight of his professional life will be first and foremost. I really don't think you do him any favors at all by using some also rans as a measuring stick for his accomplishments vs Wlad where it's as plain as day that his sence of self preservation trumped his confidence and belief in victory. You don't get to to 'kind of' lose like that or be awarded brownie points for moral victory on a Championship elite level.

Im not trying to do Haye any favors. Im posting this because with some of the comments, I feel like maybe somehow people's grip on reality got lost somewhere. As long as we have been watching Wlad fight, as many grim performances as we have seen, and it seemd like everyone has amneisia now, and somehow this is the worst thing that has ever happened. I just think people's negativity toward this fight is ilogical and over the top considering the fights that took place before.

your not alone Ninja. Illogical is a perfect word imo.
Going by some of the responses i'm reading, we may as well be speaking in another language. I guess you either get it or you don't

It does make me laugh though. All this outrage, disgust, sensationalism and even toegate..! It's all a bit too biblical for me. Or is it a witch hunt

If I asked Saddoboxing "Should we still stone Wladimir Klitschko?" They'd all scream "No! Lets stone David Haye!!"