Roy jones jr vs Mike Tyson

[ElTerribleMorales]

then surely Wlad and Vitali shouldn't be anywhere close either....

How many successful title defenses did Liston make?......THANK YOU. Wladimir and Vitali are hands down better than Liston, you think THEY have a weak division, Liston's biggest wins were over a blown up light heavyweight.

Also somebody brought up Floyd Patterson....that would be a fair match to make for RJJ. Same style as Tyson but a little smaller.

i can assure you Liston would have blown out most of, if not all of the heavies of today, the heavyweight division is a joke, Holyfield''s reign was a million times more impressive and even then the HW division failed in comparison to the time of Ali and yea even Liston

[El Kabong]

Master, here are a few heavyweights that would bother Ali or even beat him: Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko....and Evander Holyfield. I'm using what everyone always uses on Rocky Marciano...those guys are bigger than Ali(bar Evander), they hit harder than Ali, they are close in athletic ability, and they are stronger than Ali. If they wouldn't have beaten him they would surely have given him a hard fight.

I think Prime Ali-Prime Holyfield would be a war! Evander had Joe Frazier's work ethic, but was bigger and could box a bit.

ElTerribleMorales, you're shittin me....Sonny Liston is famous for beating Floyd Patterson twice (formerly of 175) and getting absolutely destroyed twice by Ali...who could Liston beat today

Just because your division is weak doesn't mean you're a bad champion or a poor champion, see Larry Holmes, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis...those guys would be great in any era (of course you have to realize Rocky wouldn't be a heavyweight these days).

[ElTerribleMorales]

Master, here are a few heavyweights that would bother Ali or even beat him: Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko....and Evander Holyfield. I'm using what everyone always uses on Rocky Marciano...those guys are bigger than Ali(bar Evander), they hit harder than Ali, they are close in athletic ability, and they are stronger than Ali. If they wouldn't have beaten him they would surely have given him a hard fight.

I think Prime Ali-Prime Holyfield would be a war! Evander had Joe Frazier's work ethic, but was bigger and could box a bit.

ElTerribleMorales, you're shittin me....Sonny Liston is famous for beating Floyd Patterson twice (formerly of 175) and getting absolutely destroyed twice by Ali...who could Liston beat today

Just because your division is weak doesn't mean you're a bad champion or a poor champion, see Larry Holmes, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis...those guys would be great in any era (of course you have to realize Rocky wouldn't be a heavyweight these days).

i'd honestly say that Holmes level of competition was better than todays

[rjj tszyu]

Master, here are a few heavyweights that would bother Ali or even beat him: Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, Wladimir Klitschko....and Evander Holyfield. I'm using what everyone always uses on Rocky Marciano...those guys are bigger than Ali(bar Evander), they hit harder than Ali, they are close in athletic ability, and they are stronger than Ali. If they wouldn't have beaten him they would surely have given him a hard fight.

I think Prime Ali-Prime Holyfield would be a war! Evander had Joe Frazier's work ethic, but was bigger and could box a bit.

ElTerribleMorales, you're shittin me....Sonny Liston is famous for beating Floyd Patterson twice (formerly of 175) and getting absolutely destroyed twice by Ali...who could Liston beat today

Just because your division is weak doesn't mean you're a bad champion or a poor champion, see Larry Holmes, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis...those guys would be great in any era (of course you have to realize Rocky wouldn't be a heavyweight these days).

i'd honestly say that Holmes level of competition was better than todays

Me too, Holmes' era was better than todays easily.

As for the Klits against Ali, they would get destroyed. Foreman was bigger and stronger than Ali and hit harder than both Klits and look what happened to him. He is also an ATG unlike them.

Of everyone Lyle mentioned the only one i'd give a chance with Ali in his prime (which would have fallen when he was banned but thats a different argument) is Evander. Ali was the greatest HW i've ever seen as far as adapting to his opponent went, and although Ali isn't the hardest hitting HW he still had good underrated power. But Holyfield could change any fight into a war and that might and it's a big might just benefit him against Ali.

[El Kabong]

rjjtszyu, Ali was bigger than Foreman AND George didn't box back in those days. I specifically selected the Klitschko's because they use their height and reach and are good technically sound fighters. It is my belief that Ali had more trouble with guys who could box a bit...the Klitschko's can box but they also have legit KO power which would have to bother Ali, I'm not saying they would always win but they would always do well.

Holmes' era was ok, but he had the same problem that the Klitschko's currently have. The competition they have right now are young and inexperienced.

I just think Evander Holyfield is the closest thing we could get to Joe Frazier in terms of his will to win.

[rjj tszyu]

rjjtszyu, Ali was bigger than Foreman AND George didn't box back in those days. I specifically selected the Klitschko's because they use their height and reach and are good technically sound fighters. It is my belief that Ali had more trouble with guys who could box a bit...the Klitschko's can box but they also have legit KO power which would have to bother Ali, I'm not saying they would always win but they would always do well.

Holmes' era was ok, but he had the same problem that the Klitschko's currently have. The competition they have right now are young and inexperienced.

I just think Evander Holyfield is the closest thing we could get to Joe Frazier in terms of his will to win.

Well I agree with you on Holyfield but for a start, Foreman was Bigger than Ali, he was 1/2 inch taller had a 82" inch reach which is 2" more than Ali (and both Klits for that matter) and when they fought he weighed in 4 lbs heavier than Ali but had drained to quite a light weight for Foreman to supposedly help his speed with Ali and his next fight against Ron Lyle (one of the greatest HW fights of all time IMO) he weighed in 6 lbs heavier than he did against Ali. Also he was only 25 so he had not finished growing by any means, whereas when Ali was 25 he weighed a full 10lbs+ less than Foreman, so how was Ali bigger?

Also Foreman didn't box in those days? Why don't you go and watch some of Foremans other fights, he used to work his jab very, very well and set up the bombs with it, kind of like in the way Wlad does but he made it a lot more exciting because he wasn't as safety first as Wlad is these days. He just couldn't figure out Ali's style but not many could, as it changed from fight to fight. A lot of people seem to have this warped idea that Foreman was just a slugger. Far from it, he was a very effective boxer who set everything up behind a solid jab, the thing was nothing went far because what he did follow it up with was so hard it seemed to get rid of his opponent.

[Master]

Added to that Ali handled Ernie Terrell who was 6ft6" with ease.

[El Kabong]

I confused the Foreman fight with the Liston fight...Ali was bigger than Sonny and not George, my bad.

Is Ernie Terrell better than anyone I mentioned?

Might I ask if Foreman used his height and reach advantage successfully BEFORE he made his comeback? I don't believe he did, he relied 100% on his power which is why he got caught by Ron Lyle and put down.

My point is that recently BOXERS have invaded the heavyweight division. Guys who can take you the distance or get you out quick. They are bigger stronger (probably not faster) but they are better at controlling pace and range than guys who were fighting back in the 1970's. Also it's a select few great fighters over a period 20 or so years....so it's not crazy to assume they would give anyone a tough fight, I'm not saying those guys would win all the time, I'm just saying Ali never fought anyone with the skill sets of the fighters I mentioned...the closest is maybe Bowe is close to Holmes, other than that he never fought anyone like Lewis, Wlad or Vitali.

[generalbulldog]

Ali was not bigger than Liston, Liston was about 10 pounds heavier in both of their fights. Liston had all of the physical advantages over Ali except for height. Unless your definition of being bigger means taller then we can say Paul Williams and Tommy Hearns was "bigger" than Mike Tyson because they were both taller than him.

[X]

JUst going back to the RJJ v Tyson question ..... assuming we are talking about them both being in their prime:

If it is a pound for pound scenario (and Jones would not have been so quick if he was bigger, whereas Tyson would not have been so powerful if he was smaller) I would say it's a pick-em fight.

Prime Tyson v Prime Jones in the same ring would have resulted in Tyson overwhelming Jones and blasting him out early, I'm afraid.

[El Kabong]

Ali was not bigger than Liston, Liston was about 10 pounds heavier in both of their fights. Liston had all of the physical advantages over Ali except for height. Unless your definition of being bigger means taller then we can say Paul Williams and Tommy Hearns was "bigger" than Mike Tyson because they were both taller than him.

But we can say the 22 year old Ali had not fully filled out his frame and that is not the case for Hearns/Williams in comparison to Tyson.

Hearns did fill out to light heavyweight though. And I'm thinking Williams may be able to fill out to 168 or so.

[johnsebastianmiran]

Joe Louis told Billy Conn who was a fast light heavy in his prime,"You can run but you can't hide." Billy did great for twelve rounds and he had Joe or so he thought. Joe told him,"You were champ for almost thirteen rounds." Tyson would batter Jones in his prime like Marciano did all his opponents and hit any body part available until his arms were too heavy to hold up.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Tyson 1986-87 KO's Jones jr inside 2, to big, to powerful

[rjj tszyu]

I confused the Foreman fight with the Liston fight...Ali was bigger than Sonny and not George, my bad.

Is Ernie Terrell better than anyone I mentioned?

Might I ask if Foreman used his height and reach advantage successfully BEFORE he made his comeback? I don't believe he did, he relied 100% on his power which is why he got caught by Ron Lyle and put down.

My point is that recently BOXERS have invaded the heavyweight division. Guys who can take you the distance or get you out quick. They are bigger stronger (probably not faster) but they are better at controlling pace and range than guys who were fighting back in the 1970's. Also it's a select few great fighters over a period 20 or so years....so it's not crazy to assume they would give anyone a tough fight, I'm not saying those guys would win all the time, I'm just saying Ali never fought anyone with the skill sets of the fighters I mentioned...the closest is maybe Bowe is close to Holmes, other than that he never fought anyone like Lewis, Wlad or Vitali.

Against Lyle though Foreman had the Ali demons in his head which he did not take well, watch him work the jab here against Chuvalo and tell me he didn't use his height and reach well and work behind the jab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2KRcH1N-xY