De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st

[UKPH]

Yes thats true Pac already tested the WW while Marquez is not. I guess Marquez is willing to fight at 142-143 with Pacquiao which is a ww bout, while we know Pac weighs only at 144 in Margarito fight.

Imo Manny wants Floyd more then Marquez business wise, win or lose. If Floyd-Pac wouldnt do, Pac-Marquez could happen but sadly its reality it would be in Mannys term. If not it would be Berto/Shane, As far i remember he had 2-3 fights as he said since Margarito fight.

[JazMerkin]

[
i think partially the opposite, I think Pac wins again but will struggle again. There's no way he blows him out. Im not joking when i say Manny is tailor made for Marquez.

JMM is the absolute counterpucher. he operates best when he's being rushed and being chased. that means more opportunities for him.

I also think he's an average fighter when facing a boxer who waits and doesnt initiate.

see Salido, John, Norwood, Floyd

That statement should be a banning offence.

John didn't beat him, you should not win in the pros if you box like that & in all honesty you'd struggle in the amateurs because at least half the shots wouldn't be counted as scoring. Norwood just ran & Salido was comfortably beaten. Only Floyd actually beat him out of those guys, the only other fighter who can claim that is Pacquiao, even if I think JMM won both fights narrowly.

[killersheep]

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.

At the end of the day boxing is all about private contracts, and fighters are going to do what they want, the commissions are willing to go along with whatever is set forth as long as they profit. HOWEVER, you can look at the rules of any commission and the rules for weighing in are currently the day before the weigh in.

WBC - section 4.6 <-- Sanctioning body for Margarito/Pacquiao
http://www.wbcboxing.com/downloads/N...FINAL_2009.pdf
"Boxers shall have the final weigh-in no less than 24 hours but not more than 30 hours before the bout"

WBA - page 21 section E.5
World Boxing Association Official Site Click on Regulations tab, then click rules
"carried out between 16 and 30 hours before the bout"

WBO - section 4
REGULATIONS
The WBO does not mandate a weigh in time at all, but does have two pages on purse bids

IBF - section 1.A
http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...amendments.pdf
The IBF has two weigh ins, the official one that's the day before (official weight) and one the morning of the fight to make sure fighters haven't gained more than 10 lbs. over the weight limit.

You also have to keep in mind that commissions, managers and even most fighters themselves are going to want prior day weigh ins, because it's a marketing tool, it gets people out, photo ops, pre fight trash talk in public view, you wouldn't get the full effect at 5-6 in the morning day of the fight.

And again you bring up fairness, but if someone is moving into a new weightclass they should abide by the current rules of that weight class or they have no business there. It's not as if Manny isn't going to make a ton of cash regardless of who he fights.

Perhaps it would help your argument if you could show some examples within the last 20 years of some fights that have used same day weigh-ins. Otherwise we are certainly talking about a social norm under the accepted current rules of the commissions.

[Kev]

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.

At the end of the day boxing is all about private contracts, and fighters are going to do what they want, the commissions are willing to go along with whatever is set forth as long as they profit. HOWEVER, you can look at the rules of any commission and the rules for weighing in are currently the day before the weigh in.

WBC - section 4.6 <-- Sanctioning body for Margarito/Pacquiao
http://www.wbcboxing.com/downloads/N...FINAL_2009.pdf
"Boxers shall have the final weigh-in no less than 24 hours but not more than 30 hours before the bout"

WBA - page 21 section E.5
World Boxing Association Official Site Click on Regulations tab, then click rules
"carried out between 16 and 30 hours before the bout"

WBO - section 4
REGULATIONS
The WBO does not mandate a weigh in time at all, but does have two pages on purse bids

IBF - section 1.A
http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...amendments.pdf
The IBF has two weigh ins, the official one that's the day before (official weight) and one the morning of the fight to make sure fighters haven't gained more than 10 lbs. over the weight limit.

You also have to keep in mind that commissions, managers and even most fighters themselves are going to want prior day weigh ins, because it's a marketing tool, it gets people out, photo ops, pre fight trash talk in public view, you wouldn't get the full effect at 5-6 in the morning day of the fight.

And again you bring up fairness, but if someone is moving into a new weightclass they should abide by the current rules of that weight class or they have no business there. It's not as if Manny isn't going to make a ton of cash regardless of who he fights.

Perhaps it would help your argument if you could show some examples within the last 20 years of some fights that have used same day weigh-ins. Otherwise we are certainly talking about a social norm under the accepted current rules of the commissions.

It's an accepted social norm now, because like you say the television and media demands it. It's also been in operation for so long that we have all accepted it. That doesn't mean that it no longer confers on the bigger man a very real, and non skill related advantage.

It is the flip side to the catchweight argument. People will cry foul that a man is asked to weigh only 150 lbs the day before fighting for a 154 lb title, but think nothing of the advantage gained through him weighing 165 lbs during the actual fight itself.

They will then argue, how can you win a 154 lb belt fighting at 150 lbs? But the fight wasn't at 150lbs it was 148lbs vs 165 lbs.

It depends what your ultimate goal in boxing is. For the best fighters to fight the best fighters, even when they operate in different natural weight classes, or would you rather see these fighters remain pure to the their chosen divisions even if it means not fighting each other.

Personally I am massively in favour of the former approach. I couldn't care less about the weight of a fighter in all honesty, providing they are healthy to fight.

The belts have been so devalued in the sport of the boxing due to corruption and appalling paid for rankings as to be rendered virtually meaningless. The fighters are the stars of boxing, and why we watch, not the WBC, WBA, IBF belts etc.

Once a fighter has proven himself we know his worth to the sport, we don't a belt to tell us that, or a specific weight class. Some may like the fact that Marvin Hagler only ever fought as a middleweight had there been any stars at 175 lbs that would have made for interesting fights I would have loved to see him move up to a catchweight to challenge them. I don't need for a fight to be in a specific weight class for me to know it's a significant fight. The issue of weight draining is different. I don't want to see a fight kill himself to make weight. But this isn't a problem related to catchweight fights any more than regular weight classes. The only fighter who looked weight drained against Manny was Oscar, and that wasn't a catchweight fight. Ironically, had it been a catchweight fight, at say 150 lbs like when Oscar fought Steve Forbes, it would have been more competitive not less.

I just cannot see the problem. Watching Manny rise up through multiple weight classes over the past 3 years has been absolutely sensational. He has torn through some of the biggest names in three divisions, and having come all the way from flyweight to that.

Over the course of that he's had two catchweight fights, his first proper fight at welter against a genuine welter in Cotto, and his first fight at light middle, against a big tall man in Margarito.

Given the choice of these catchweight agreements being in place, or the fights not taking place at all I wholeheartedly support the catchweights.

Also, why is it only Manny who gets criticism for it.

Why did no one rain on Marquez when he got Floyd to agree to a catchweight of 145? Nobody mentioned it, because although he is the same size as Manny, and came from the same superfeatherweight divison as Manny he is not held to the same standard of perfection as Manny.

Also Floyd chose to ignore it and pay a fine instead, which I guess both Cotto and Margarito were free to do. They didn't however, as they chose to keep the honour of the sport and stick the agreement, unlike Floyd who just ignored his agreement.

[Kev]

Oh and as for abiding by the current rules of a weight class what rules has Manny broken.

As I understand it the rules for fighting for the welterweight title are 'You cannot exceed the maximum weight limit of 147 lbs'.

Where does it say 'You cannot weigh in at 145lbs?'

[generalbulldog]

Bilbo, just out of curiosity. If Nonito Donaire fought bigger guys at catchweights would you be defending him?

[killersheep]

Oh and as for abiding by the current rules of a weight class what rules has Manny broken.

As I understand it the rules for fighting for the welterweight title are 'You cannot exceed the maximum weight limit of 147 lbs'.

Where does it say 'You cannot weigh in at 145lbs?'

As far as the titles go you are absolutely correct, and as far as the sanctioning bodies go, as long as they profit they will let go whatever happens, catchweights and whatever else keeps them profitable. But what are the weightclasses there for? Do you consider Manny to be a Light middleweight fighter? Why should a light middleweight fighter take away the advantage he enjoys himself to accommadate his move, the only real answer of course is money. There are established weight classes intact to keep fighters up against fighters that are relatively close to their own weight, if someone chooses give up that advantage by moving up in weight that is there perogative, but it is unfair to amend the rules as they apply to the other fighter.

As I said before I am all for same day weigh-ins, but they will never happen because of money.

I am also strongly against catchweights, especially in regards to title fights, but they will never go away because of money.

I believe I understand what you are saying, I just believe that weight classes (and there are too many anyway) should be respected and if someone moves up that is their choice to take on the disadvantage of the nature of that weight class, even if it means being outweighed by 20 lbs on the night of the fight. It's my personal take that as far as private contracts go, there should only be the option to choose a weight class to contract in, not to create a weight class.

From what I understand in your view all weights fall within a weight class and are therefore valid, and that any fighter that is moving up in weight should make the fighter naturally in that weight class to come down to accommadate that lighter fighter so it is closer in weight and therefore a more level playing field. Is that correct?

[Kev]

Oh and as for abiding by the current rules of a weight class what rules has Manny broken.

As I understand it the rules for fighting for the welterweight title are 'You cannot exceed the maximum weight limit of 147 lbs'.

Where does it say 'You cannot weigh in at 145lbs?'

As far as the titles go you are absolutely correct, and as far as the sanctioning bodies go, as long as they profit they will let go whatever happens, catchweights and whatever else keeps them profitable. But what are the weightclasses there for? Do you consider Manny to be a Light middleweight fighter? Why should a light middleweight fighter take away the advantage he enjoys himself to accommadate his move, the only real answer of course is money. There are established weight classes intact to keep fighters up against fighters that are relatively close to their own weight, if someone chooses give up that advantage by moving up in weight that is there perogative, but it is unfair to amend the rules as they apply to the other fighter.

As I said before I am all for same day weigh-ins, but they will never happen because of money.

I am also strongly against catchweights, especially in regards to title fights, but they will never go away because of money.

I believe I understand what you are saying, I just believe that weight classes (and there are too many anyway) should be respected and if someone moves up that is their choice to take on the disadvantage of the nature of that weight class, even if it means being outweighed by 20 lbs on the night of the fight. It's my personal take that as far as private contracts go, there should only be the option to choose a weight class to contract in, not to create a weight class.

From what I understand in your view all weights fall within a weight class and are therefore valid, and that any fighter that is moving up in weight should make the fighter naturally in that weight class to come down to accommadate that lighter fighter so it is closer in weight and therefore a more level playing field. Is that correct?

In answer to the part bolded. No not at all. I don't consider him a fighter of any weight, I just consider him an exceptional fighter.

For me weight doesn't define a fighter their ability and skills do.

Weight divisions were brought in because otherwise boxing would be like basketball, you would have to be 200 + pounds and over 6 ft tall to be able to compete at the highest level.

They exist to allow smaller fighters to make a name for themselves against fighters of the same size as them. But the weight divisions are not ideal. I mean in a perfect world, size would have no bearing on a fight and everybody would fight everybody. They only exist to solve the problem, namely that people are different sizes. There is no reason for weight classes to exist beyond that, they have no intrinsic value above and beyond that specific purpose.

You wouldn't introduce weight classes into soccer or tennis, because they are not necessary in such sports. What I am trying to demonstrate, is that weight classes exist only to serve boxing and organise fighters into broad size groups, rather than boxers existing to populate and bring honour to the weight categories. Does that make sense?

So, in my opinon, when a fighter dominates his own weight class, or natural weight classes, as Manny has done, and then wants to take bigger risks and fight fighters outside of his weight class, he is to a certain extent transcending the weight division limitations.

Manny has dominated the flyweight-super featherweight divisions. Already in those weight classes alone, he was a Hall of Fame worthy competitor and a legend of the lower weights.

Now he's gone beyond that. He's truly a global phenomenon and isdoing what nobody else in the modern era has ever done in moving up and fighting massively bigger guys than himself, and dominating them.

I honestly don't give a shit about what weight class he fights in. All I want is for him to fight the biggest fights against the best oppositon. Provided they are not weight drained and unable to perform (and there is zero evidence to suggest either Cotto or Margarito was weight drained) then I am happy for them to fight, because to me boxing is about the fights, and the fighters themselves, and not some commitment to arbitary weight class limits.

[Kev]

Bilbo, just out of curiosity. If Nonito Donaire fought bigger guys at catchweights would you be defending him?

Yes I would! The reason Donaire is so annoying to me is that he has literally fought nobody since beating Vic Darchinyan.

Darchinyan remains the ONLY fighter Donaire has faced who has EVER held a world title belt.

That's ridiculous. He has never fought another world champion, ever past or present since that win 3 or so years ago and yet he has been ranked number 4 in the world p4p by Ring Magazine.

If Donaire was to move up and beat Amir Khan at 138 lbs I would be mightily impressed. If he took on Humberto Soto at 133 lbs again I would be mightlily impressed.

But he doesn't. In fact he represents everything that is bad about sticking to a weight class because there is literally nobody for him to fight. Instead he's been on a diet of bums and nobodies, with the ocassional former title challenger thrown in.

I just don't understand this zealous commitment to the weight classes. What is it people think they are respecting? The belts in boxing aren't worth anything any more in determining who are the best fighters. Do people even know what light middleweight belt Manny Pacquaio holds now? Or what his welterweight belt was?

The weight classes exist as a way to establish who is the best fighters of a particular size. But once we know who they are, they have served that purpose.

Manny does not need a belt, or a particular weight class to be recognised as a true talent and world class boxer. He doesn't need them to make a fight more meaningful or entertaining either.

It's man binding himself with redtape and tradition as he so loves to do.

In a perfect scenario both fighters would weigh their optimum weight. The weight divisions are arbitary. There is no such thing as a 147 lb man or a 154 lb man. We are just people, and can weight various weights according to how much we eat and exercise, and age etc.

Catchweights just free up some of the red tape. They should be embraced if they allow us to see fighters from otherwise seperate weight classes fight each other, but instead people prefer the red tape and a commitment to an imaginary god of weight class integrity.

[GAME]

Then why have weight classes at all? I believe there should be no catchweights allowed in pro boxing at all, you are following the rules of a weightclass or you aren't. If you are going to move up to fight bigger men, then that's exactly what you should be doing fighting bigger men, not fighting with an asterisk. Of course, noone's going to take a stand when a 6-7 figure payday is on the line.

Well actually I would agree. But the bigger men are already the beneficiaries of an unfair advantage having a full 24 hours from the time of the weigh in to the fight itself.

How is that fair?

Some people moaned about Manny winning a junior middleweight title at a catchweight of 150lbs, but that weigh in was the day before the fight.

Margarito actually weighed in at 165 lbs at the time of the fight.

You can't have it both ways. Under the current system biggers guys have an unfair advantage of being able to boil down to fight in a division many pounds lighter than the weight they walk around at.

Allow Manny's opponents to weigh in at the maximum weight limit. But make sure they enter the ring at that weight.

That's surely fair. Under those circumstances Manny's advantage would be even greater.

Because of this disparity catchweights are a necessary evil. All they do is level the playing field that is already biased in favour of the naturally bigger fighter.

I am in the minority that believes same day weigh-ins should be the norm. But the logic of having an unfair advantage by using the normal rules of a weight class is ridiculous. That would be like Qatar's soccer team play against England's but England wouldn't be allowed to have a goalie or any player to enter their own penalty box. Wait, bad example, but still you get the point. Margarito coming in heavier isn't anything out of the norm for the division, noone is forcing Pacquiao to move up in weight, if he chooses to fight there, he should fight in the terms of the division if it's too much of a disadvantage then fight in a lower weight class, that's what we have weight classes for.

I don't see how Manny has an 'unfair' advantage though? The unfairness arises out of the 24 hour window that allows fighters to fight in weight class in which they are too big.

If fighters were not allowed to enter the ring above the weight limit then it would be a whole different ball game and much better for the sport. As it stands, every bigger man has an unfair advantage every time they enter the ring thanks to not having to actually weigh on fight night what they are supposed to according to the weight limit.

I just can't see how people can't see both sides of the coin here?

If a fighter can enter the ring 10 or even 15 lbs more than the weight limit how is that fair?

By asking for a catchweight all Manny is doing is ensuring that a fighter cannot rehydrate to such a high level, thus negating the advantage they would otherwise be able to accumalate.

If having to weight 2 lbs less than the max weight limit for the fight 24 hours before is too much of a strain for the bigger man, then clearly they are fighting in a weight class that is too small for them.

When a smaller guy is moving up, a catchweight is actually a fair fight.

In the case of Miguel Cotto for example, he weighed over the 147 lb weight limit by the time he stepped in the ring with Manny. So imo it was a full welterweight fight.

Catchweights wouldn't need to exist if the sport was more fair in the first place.

At the end of the day boxing is all about private contracts, and fighters are going to do what they want, the commissions are willing to go along with whatever is set forth as long as they profit. HOWEVER, you can look at the rules of any commission and the rules for weighing in are currently the day before the weigh in.

WBC - section 4.6 <-- Sanctioning body for Margarito/Pacquiao
http://www.wbcboxing.com/downloads/N...FINAL_2009.pdf
"Boxers shall have the final weigh-in no less than 24 hours but not more than 30 hours before the bout"

WBA - page 21 section E.5
World Boxing Association Official Site Click on Regulations tab, then click rules
"carried out between 16 and 30 hours before the bout"

WBO - section 4
REGULATIONS
The WBO does not mandate a weigh in time at all, but does have two pages on purse bids

IBF - section 1.A
http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...amendments.pdf
The IBF has two weigh ins, the official one that's the day before (official weight) and one the morning of the fight to make sure fighters haven't gained more than 10 lbs. over the weight limit.

You also have to keep in mind that commissions, managers and even most fighters themselves are going to want prior day weigh ins, because it's a marketing tool, it gets people out, photo ops, pre fight trash talk in public view, you wouldn't get the full effect at 5-6 in the morning day of the fight.

And again you bring up fairness, but if someone is moving into a new weightclass they should abide by the current rules of that weight class or they have no business there. It's not as if Manny isn't going to make a ton of cash regardless of who he fights.

Perhaps it would help your argument if you could show some examples within the last 20 years of some fights that have used same day weigh-ins. Otherwise we are certainly talking about a social norm under the accepted current rules of the commissions.

It's an accepted social norm now, because like you say the television and media demands it. It's also been in operation for so long that we have all accepted it. That doesn't mean that it no longer confers on the bigger man a very real, and non skill related advantage.

It is the flip side to the catchweight argument. People will cry foul that a man is asked to weigh only 150 lbs the day before fighting for a 154 lb title, but think nothing of the advantage gained through him weighing 165 lbs during the actual fight itself.

They will then argue, how can you win a 154 lb belt fighting at 150 lbs? But the fight wasn't at 150lbs it was 148lbs vs 165 lbs.

It depends what your ultimate goal in boxing is. For the best fighters to fight the best fighters, even when they operate in different natural weight classes, or would you rather see these fighters remain pure to the their chosen divisions even if it means not fighting each other.

Personally I am massively in favour of the former approach. I couldn't care less about the weight of a fighter in all honesty, providing they are healthy to fight.

The belts have been so devalued in the sport of the boxing due to corruption and appalling paid for rankings as to be rendered virtually meaningless. The fighters are the stars of boxing, and why we watch, not the WBC, WBA, IBF belts etc.

Once a fighter has proven himself we know his worth to the sport, we don't a belt to tell us that, or a specific weight class. Some may like the fact that Marvin Hagler only ever fought as a middleweight had there been any stars at 175 lbs that would have made for interesting fights I would have loved to see him move up to a catchweight to challenge them. I don't need for a fight to be in a specific weight class for me to know it's a significant fight. The issue of weight draining is different. I don't want to see a fight kill himself to make weight. But this isn't a problem related to catchweight fights any more than regular weight classes. The only fighter who looked weight drained against Manny was Oscar, and that wasn't a catchweight fight. Ironically, had it been a catchweight fight, at say 150 lbs like when Oscar fought Steve Forbes, it would have been more competitive not less.

I just cannot see the problem. Watching Manny rise up through multiple weight classes over the past 3 years has been absolutely sensational. He has torn through some of the biggest names in three divisions, and having come all the way from flyweight to that.

Over the course of that he's had two catchweight fights, his first proper fight at welter against a genuine welter in Cotto, and his first fight at light middle, against a big tall man in Margarito.

Given the choice of these catchweight agreements being in place, or the fights not taking place at all I wholeheartedly support the catchweights.

Also, why is it only Manny who gets criticism for it.

Why did no one rain on Marquez when he got Floyd to agree to a catchweight of 145? Nobody mentioned it, because although he is the same size as Manny, and came from the same superfeatherweight divison as Manny he is not held to the same standard of perfection as Manny.

Also Floyd chose to ignore it and pay a fine instead, which I guess both Cotto and Margarito were free to do. They didn't however, as they chose to keep the honour of the sport and stick the agreement, unlike Floyd who just ignored his agreement.

So Manny can say he won world world titles in different divisions instead of saying he beat up on washed up weight drained leftovers.

[miron_lang]

[
i think partially the opposite, I think Pac wins again but will struggle again. There's no way he blows him out. Im not joking when i say Manny is tailor made for Marquez.

JMM is the absolute counterpucher. he operates best when he's being rushed and being chased. that means more opportunities for him.

I also think he's an average fighter when facing a boxer who waits and doesnt initiate.

see Salido, John, Norwood, Floyd

That statement should be a banning offence.

John didn't beat him, you should not win in the pros if you box like that & in all honesty you'd struggle in the amateurs because at least half the shots wouldn't be counted as scoring. Norwood just ran & Salido was comfortably beaten. Only Floyd actually beat him out of those guys, the only other fighter who can claim that is Pacquiao, even if I think JMM won both fights narrowly.

I retract that statement.

If you notice i didnt say any details about those fights. But he's not at all impressive in these fights. The point is a come forward fighter will make him look good.

[miron_lang]

Darchinyan remains the ONLY fighter Donaire has faced who has EVER held a world title belt.

Bilbo

As stated in the other thread. Sydorenko is a former titlist.

[milmascaras1]

sure sidorenko was a world champion once upon a time but he's tiny compared to donaire, he's 34 years old and he had only had two fights in the last 2 1/2 years before fighting donaire. again, he was the perfect opponent to make donaire look good. also the perfect opponent to hype up the montiel fight.

[generalbulldog]

sure sidorenko was a world champion once upon a time but he's tiny compared to donaire, he's 34 years old and he had only had two fights in the last 2 1/2 years before fighting donaire. again, he was the perfect opponent to make donaire look good. also the perfect opponent to hype up the montiel fight.

To be fair, although the guy Donaire fought looks much smaller than him, the guy Donaire beat was a career bantamweight and this was Donaire's 1st fight in the division. There are no height divisions in boxing but weight divisions.

[milmascaras1]

general,

so you don't think sidorenko was handpicked to make donaire look good? are you eff'ing kidding me? look, the guy was old, slow, small, and he hit as hard as a minimumweight. OF COURSE sidorenko was handpicked. do you think arum was going to risk a montiel fight against a dangerous opponent? come on dude, quit drinking that damned kool-aid and you'll be fine.