Printable View
WHAT?!Quote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
So people don't get charged for attempted murder, attempted rape, attempted robbery, ect, conspiracy to commit ect ect??
The crime DID happen when Marg was given illegal wraps. Just because your plan was foiled doesn't mean you get off. Scooby Doo and gang foiled plans every week, but the perps still went to jail.
100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...d41b970c-320wiQuote:
Originally Posted by bradlee180
There's all the evidence you need right there. When Richardson described the tainted gauze what did he say about it?
when he peeled it back, a square block of old wet gauze fell out that was covered with plaster. And it had an old dried-up blood stain on it."
....and what do we see in the picture??? Anyone????
All I know is that I wrap my own hands and that wrap is all there is is. I tighten my wrists, make sure my knuckles are padded and more so on my left hand and that is that. For any fighter to not know what is going on during that period is insane. Surely at the very start they were doing it on their own. Later you would see any odd behaviour. You are not in a coma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Lol true enough. Margarito can probably wrap his own hands better then anyone.
Not to mention if it's discovered after he seriously injures somebody he could be sued out of existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg didn't know about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.
There's no way a professional trainer in the corner for hundreds of pro fights turns up for his nth world title fight without enough gauze to make the knuckle pads but just enough to do the rest of the wraps and just happens to have some old bloody shitty stuff from a previous fight that he's kept in his bag. Along with some plaster of paris powder.
Bottom line:
It's a bullshit thread started by someone well known for starting bullshit threads. The guy was caught trying to cheat, and paid the price. Although admittedly a smaller price than it should have been, thanks to scumbag Sullied-man. He had a lot of fans before that incident..... not quite so many after it. Fans expected big things.... he ended up trashing his career. Some former fighters can fall back on TV gigs..... but Margarito obviously isn't TV material. Can't say I'm too upset about the way it all turned out for him.
'Nough said.
Still PMsing? Lol you cant handle the truth. The fact is, Margarito smashed Cotto's padded record and took his prime away. It must be a hard pill to swallow but it's time for u to face it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Margarito is Cotto's daddy..
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
This phrase alone makes you look like a complete moron to the entire civilized world.
Then I think of that thread you started about lusting after your own sister, and I realize you must be a product of inbreeding. That would explain a who-o-o-o-le lot of things.
:-X
So ur gonna resort to lies to defend yourself now? you are sick for even twisting shit like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
This phrase alone makes you look like a complete moron to the entire civilized world.
Then I think of that thread you started about lusting after your own sister, and I realize you must be a product of inbreeding. That would explain a who-o-o-o-le lot of things.
:-X
Oh yea, you are definitely butt hurt.. :D im gonna take it easy cuz u sound like a little girl anyways lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamitaSo ur gonna resort to lies to defend yourself now? you are sick for even twisting shit like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita
This phrase alone makes you look like a complete moron to the entire civilized world.
Then I think of that thread you started about lusting after your own sister, and I realize you must be a product of inbreeding. That would explain a who-o-o-o-le lot of things.
:-X
Oh yea, you are definitely butt hurt.. :D im gonna take it easy cuz u sound like a little girl anyways lol.
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...ghlight=sister
Doesn't take a degree in psychology to figure out who the twisted one really is, eh sport?
;)
Ok Clever clogs now explain how Margarito cheated........Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
1 The CSAC Insp watched Capetillo wrap Tonys hand He passed it & signed off on it
2 That Poc Richardson complained and wanted the wrap removed
3 That liar Richardson then claimed BLOCKS fell out of Tony's wraps. What happened to those BLOCKS no one else saw then but the liar.
4 All that was found in Tony's wrap was a small damp gauze pad that was used not new
5 That pad was microscopically examined in a laboratory while Tony was banned by the CSAC
6 The pad was deemed Harmless by the lab There was NO evidence of attempted loading
7 The pad was technically illegal as new pads should be used every time. Capetillo explained he's picked it up accidentally.
8 The Csac had no evidence whatsoever of any illegal action & declined to charge Margarito with any crime
9 When Tony applied for his licence to be reinstated & was refused. Tony's rep asked the CSAC panel why no one else had been allowed to inspect the pad & asked them to produce the so called loaded pad A very embarassed CSAC rep stammered & stuttered " Err we cannot we have MISLAID it We do not know where it is"
Sure a State Boxing Commission MISLAYS the only evidence they claimed to have to deny a man earning his living for 2 years???? How convenient Huh???? Can you smell the stink yet?
The only cheaters involved were that lying POC Richardson. The totally inept or corrupt, you choose, CSAC & a juiced to the gills Mosely Not the first time he fought & won juiced up was it????
Tony Margarito NEVER cheated He was made to pay for kicking Miguel Cotto's ass when he wasnt supposed to & was made to pay
There was NEVER any plaster of paris powder involved or the CSAC would have indicted Capetillo & Margarito. The only talk of Plaster of paris & BLOCKS were invented by that lying POC Nazim Richardson. The blocks he "saw" vanished I guessQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingNot to mention if it's discovered after he seriously injures somebody he could be sued out of existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg didn't know about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.
There's no way a professional trainer in the corner for hundreds of pro fights turns up for his nth world title fight without enough gauze to make the knuckle pads but just enough to do the rest of the wraps and just happens to have some old bloody shitty stuff from a previous fight that he's kept in his bag. Along with some plaster of paris powder.
What was the official ruling on what it was then if not plaster was it just a used rap then. I mean did they find out what it was or no did the commission actual say it was plaster. Also if it was missing the key ingredient to make it plaster then what would it be nothing just wondering.
So Margarito and his trainer got punished for what then?
It was a used pad.
Capetillo testified at the hearing that he prepared Margarito’s knuckle pads in the dressing room at the Staples Center and put them on top of the contents in his training bag. Then, when it was time to wrap, he pulled the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. He further testified that the confiscated pads had most likely been used by another boxer while hitting the heavy bag in the gym.
“They just throw their things in my bag,” Capetillo told the commission.
The following colloquy exemplifies his testimony:
Q: Is this the kind of pad you usually use in a championship fight?
Capetillo: No, sir.
Q: Have you ever used a pad like that in a professional boxing fight?
Capetillo: No, sir.
Q: So is it your testimony that, when you wrapped Mr. Margarito’s hands, you reached into your training bag and grabbed the wrong pad?
Capetillo: That is correct . . . I put my hand in my bag to pull out, they are like little pads. And by mistake, that I had those in my bag, I put them on and I wrapped them on without realizing that it had been a big mistake.
There was no direct evidence that Margarito knew about the inserts inside the knuckle pads; only inference. Antonio denied any knowledge of the inserts, and Capetillo testified, “I commit a big mistake and I acknowledge it. I don’t want that this young man have any problem because he is not at fault. He didn’t realize what I had put on.”
SecondsOut Boxing News - Thomas Hauser - Antonio Margarito and the Handwrap Issue
And I got swamp land for sale in Yukon.Quote:
There was no direct evidence that Margarito knew about the inserts inside the knuckle pads; only inference. Antonio denied any knowledge of the inserts, and Capetillo testified, “I commit a big mistake and I acknowledge it. I don’t want that this young man have any problem because he is not at fault. He didn’t realize what I had put on.”
So you want us to believe a confessed cheater, a dishonorable prick without a conscience. Sorry, I can't!Quote:
Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita:appl: Capatillo even confessed to have done the job unbeknownst to Margarito..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedNaive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterI fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitFair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.
Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!
2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.
Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”
Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”
Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”
Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”
Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”
Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”
Don't shoot the messenger ;)
From the same Thomas Hauser article :
Mike Bray (an inspector who entered the dressing room during the dispute) recalled, “I observed what appeared to be a blood stain on the corner of the pad. I also noticed that it was moist and dirty-looking. The pad had the appearance that it had been used before. After looking at the pad closer, I could see a white substance smeared across the face of the pad and into the gauze. I touched the white substance, and it was hard to touch. It looked like a cast plaster or maybe a thicker type of white out that you would put on paper.”
[..]
On March 19, 2009, the Bureau of Forensic Services forwarded a report to the CSAC that read, “Calcium and sulpher, two elements found in plaster of Paris, were found on the submitted gauze pad using an X-ray fluorescence [XRF] spectrometer. The elements calcium, sulpher, and oxygen are found in plaster of Paris.
[...]
Capetillo shredded his credibility by maintaining that the use of the inserts was accidental. A trainer doesn’t reach into his bag and make a mistake like that. To say that’s what happened here is nonsense.
Moreover, if (as Capetillo claims) the knuckle pads he pulled out of his bag “by mistake” had been used by another fighter in the gym, why was the gauze that surrounded the illegal inserts squeaky-clean?
Maybe they should have let Margarito keep the pads in against Mosley, he might have had a chance ;D
But no evidence that Margarito ever fought with loaded gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. (;D)
The photographic evidence is pretty damning.....wraps don't look the way his did after the Cotto fight normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBut no evidence that Margarito ever fought with loaded gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. (;D)
Also if it "wasn't the wraps" why couldn't Margarito ever repeat his previous successes? He couldn't beat Mosley, he got hammered vs Pacquiao, and Cotto walloped him in the rematch....this leads me to believe he did not have that extra little something (loaded wraps, and possibly drugs since his punch output was so high in his wins and dropped off big time in his losses) to get him over the top in those fights.
Hahahahaha. Nice try Johnny but you forgot that the glove was once soaked in blood, was made of leather and there was a latex glove underneath.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterBut no evidence that Margarito ever fought with loaded gloves.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. (;D)
;D
7/26/08 Margarito stops Miguel Cotto in 11
1/24/09 Mosley stops Margarito in 9
According to Judd Burstein, the attorney for Mosley, Margarito had wet pads in the wrapping. Mosley's doctor, Robert Olvera, likened the material to the type of plaster used to make casts. Burstein said he seized the pad removed from the wrapping and another pad found in Margarito's dressing room. Both were placed in a sealed box that was given to Dean Lohuis of the California Boxing Commission for further study. After the suspicious pads were removed from Margarito's dressing room, the boxer's hands were rewrapped and the fight went off on time
-----------------CSAC BAN------------------------
5/8/10 Margarito wins decision over Roberto Garcia 99-89, 100-88, 99-90
11/13/10 Pacquiao wins decision over Margarito 119-109, 120-108, 118-108
12/3/11 Miguel Cotto stops Margarito in 9
So how does a guy who seemingly took 100% of everything Miguel Cotto threw at him and gave back twice as much get beaten up by the same guy just a few years later? How does that happen? How does a big power puncher and pressure fighter not stop the smaller Pacquiao? How does a contender in his PRIME not beat Shane Mosley? It's not as if before the Mosley fight Margarito was in poor form, it's not like Shane was doing really hot at the time either.
How does that happen fellas?
Dude Lyle Margarito had fucking the shit kick out of him from Pac and Mosley i say that is also something to consider i mean he had to have his eye reconstructed. He did take all Cotto had in the rematch the fight was stop on the eye Margarito had to rebuild if he really used bricks he would knock people out more and also Cotto would not have lasted as long as he did if he in fact was using bricks. I mean Williams and Clotty were pretty unfazed by Margarito shots if he was indeed cheating this whole time i mean he is not even a knock out guy he is a grinder with volume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
And there's a conga line of frustrated Margarito fans waiting to buy some.
And WHY did he get his ass kicked by an ancient Mosley and a smaller Pacquiao?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Yeah well fuck him anyway, he taunted Freddie Roach on camera and took the piss out of his disease mocking him was a low point in the sport.
That gives you a glimpse of whats going on inside his head.
Mosley gave Cotto a run for his money and could of got the nod in there fight Pac beat the shit out of Cotto and knocked him out. Styles make fights and those guys had more fire power to knock Margarito out and thats what made a big difference in the fights don't think it is that hard figure out.
Lol that was not the same Shane at all that fought Cotto and Manny knocked Cotto out after Margarito used the cement so dont try to revise history to make it sound like they all fought the same Cotto or the same Shane. Shane went on the slide significantly after Cotto based on the yoyo weight jumping and retreating he was doing. He almost went life and death with Mayorga prior to Margo. Like I said you dont have to be Francis Bacon to sort this shit out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Im pretty sure it was Rios who initiated that nonsense.. margo was just playing along and so was Robert garcia laughing in the back..Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
I actually think garcia is the worst because he's supposed to be the head of the group yet it seems like he doesnt know how to control his fighters.. u see this dude giggling like a little kid whenever rios acts rubbish..
That's probably why Roach started shit with him in china.. garcia is cool but he's immature for his age..
Iaminuit do you really think Cotto could take a beating from a guy having cement in his hands. Cotto is good at a lot of things but durability never has been his strong point. If he was wearing cement gloves then why no real effect on Williams or Clotty i mean he never hurt them that bad the whole fight. Shane had the power to fuck Margarito up and the chin to stand with him fight was just year and half later. As for Pac beating Margarito up he was on another level completely and was way better then Cotto ever was in his career. I say yea Cotto got the rematch win but both guys were kinda done. Margarito had to have his eye rebuild i don't think that should be overlooked also the reason the fight was stopped as well. I am not saying he didn't cheat ever but look at his career performances and i am not sure why it didn't effect the other fighters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
LMAO, 140. There goes the rest of your argument right there. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you never followed his career from the very beginning. You hear the negative comments, and repeat them verbatim. With the likes of Randall Bailey, Muhammad Abdullaev, and Ricardo Torres on his resume... I'd hardly question his durability. But none of these facts will ever convince you, so I won't spend that much time attempting it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
No one claims he cheated his entire career. But his lack of moral character and who knows what outside pressures he had.... at some point he succumbed to temptation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I don't recall Shane giving Margacheato much of a chance to GET to that chin. It was over before it even began. Come to think of it..... Shane's blowout of Margacheato serves to further boost Cotto's credentials, by making Miguel's victory over Shane all that much more impressive.
You're entitled to your opinions, as we all are. Just shedding some light with some facts which, if objective enough, you may want to reconsider.
Since I answered inside your quote I needed to add something outside it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I am pretty sure they check the fucking hand wraps on a fight as big as Margarito vs Cotto considering that Cotto was the star and all. I just don't Think he would of lasted as long if Margarito had plaster on his hands. I also think he would of knocked out Clotty and Williams as well but that is just my thoughts. As for the thread is it true they were missing elements for it to even happen right or no. As for Cotto yea he was never better then Pacman i just cant see it in his career and competition. Beside Mosley who was 36 years old not shot but his best years behind him had a close fight that was a md and could of been a draw which i thought it was. Then you have the Clotty fight i know he had a bad cut but still very close fight could of either way. Margarito fight no point in going into that so i won't, then he gets his ass crushed by Pac i mean just a fucking ass kicking. Then after that goes on gives Mayweather a fight but still loses by a wide margin like most and then gets dominated by trout. Now he had ok comp at 140 but those guys will be forgotten there not elite and Zab and Carlos were good wins as well but that is about it. As good as Cotto was he never was the man of his division not at 140 not at 147 and not at 154 but you could make argument at 147 because it might of been a cheat but not proven but Margarito still won it. Anyway i just feel its kinda bit out there that he was caught now and all the big fights he has had and just now gets caught also be weird if this was the first time too.
Aimless ramblings aside, it's clear you don't like Cotto and will never give him credit for anything he's done in his career. Which again.... is your God-given right. But you were called on your claim that Cotto has never been durable, and you didn't respond. That alone gives away your lack of objectivity on the man. Be a hater... yes. But don't parrot things just because you heard them from a fellow hater.
I think Cotto can be a hof have no problem with it maybe durable is not the right word Tito i don't think he had that great of a chin. Which to me if he was getting checked by fucking cinder blocks then i don't think he last much especially not eleven rounds. Also do you think Cotto was better then Pac at anytime in his career because i sure don't and that is what i said in the other post. I don't think i underrate Cotto really i mean he had a lot skill but his resume compared to a lot atg is not that impressive. I mean let me see what are his top wins Mosley, Zab, Clottey, Margarito, Paulie and Carlos. That's pretty good list but Mosley was on slide not shot or anything but man was 36 and that was close fucking fight. Clotty a man that could never win a big fight but could of easily got the nod in their fight. Zab at welterweight lost to fucking most good people if not all of them expect Spinks. Margarito got the shit beat out him and lost a eye before the rematch and if he is a cheater then fuck that win ain't really worth shit then right. The others are nothing really special but were good at the time. Also Cotto was never the top guy in his weight class either which kinda goes against you since love him or hate him Pac had that at least. In the end i give Cotto his due he's notched his way into the Hall of fame but is far from atg and i just don't think his chin good enough take cement to the face fair enough for you is that answer you wanted to hear or is that me hating him because i really don't.