Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

[Beanflicker]

People gave Mayweather a lot of shit he started demanding Olympic-style drug testing outside of the standard testing. The sentiment was "who the fuck is this guy to demand that, that's the commissions job, ect."

Well the sad fact is THE COMMISSIONS ARE RARELY CATCHING THE CHEATERS! Guys using PED's (for the most part) aren't caught with drug tests, they're caught WAY after the fact when the FBI busts a steroid lab and finds the names of famous athletes on receipts. And in this case, if Richardson isn't there watching the wraps being done, Margarito fights with those wraps and whatever the fuck substance was in them.

It's a losing battle, and it's a battle the commissions largely don't want to fight. For most sports, PED's are a victimless crime and it means more money. Not only are they helping athletes accomplish incredible feats while they are in their primes - feats that bring more money to the sport and more money to trickle down to everyone else - it increases their window of earning by allowing them to play at a high level well into their 40s, which is something that was largely unheard of decades ago.

So on one side you have these huge steroid labs, financed by multi-millionaires who cater to multi-million dollar elite athletes who are paying top dollar for substances that are going to make them better athletes and more money. And these multi-millionaires (Victor Conte from BALCO for example) spend their multi-millions developing ways to buck the system and cheat the tests. Look up "the clear". It was a type of steroid synthesized SPECIFICALLY to be undetectable and help athletes cheat the tests.

Then on the other side, you have the commissions, which are organizations funded and controlled by the federal government. With the US's deficit, do you really think Barack Obama is going to divert millions for the commissions to catch up to these labs and stop athletes from taking a substance that's going to help them hit more home runs? Of course not. These commission guys have cushy jobs and want to do the bare minimum to create and illusion of integrity and an even playing field.

The truth is, people by and large don't give a shit. They just want the illusion. Sports fans want to believe in some fairy tale where sports are all about integrity and honest competition, and boxing fans want to believe in nonsense about a warrior's code of honor and all that horse shit. It's nonsense.

Tyson is the best example. There are guys on this board that will say - with the same confidence they would have telling you what country they're from - that Tyson never used PED's. Right, because why would a guy who admitted to cheating drug tests for narcotics with a fake urine sample be suspected of any substance cheating. No, that's impossible. The guy who bit a man's ear off, who smashed countless opponents with his elbows and forearms on the inside, who brawled with Lennox at a press conference and bit his leg, who told opponents that he was going to drive their nose into their brain, eat their children and stomp on their testicles... of course he had way too much respect and admiration for his opponents than to ever use PED's.

[TitoFan]

He was convicted and "served time", although it was more like a slap on the wrist thanks to scumbag Sulaiman, may he rest in peace. That's more than enough for me.

[Andre]

He was definitely a different fighter after the the gloves and wrappings came under close scrutiny.

Other older fighters who have a year or more off then come back to compete are not the same either I hear that all the time.

[Mr140]

He may not have seemed the same because he got his ass kicked in by Mosley and Pacman. I mean those fights are career ending fights i mean the guy lost his eye so I guess he would not be as good after words right. As for the plaster his whole career i don't think so unless Willaims and Clotty are just not effected by bricks hitting them in the face. I mean Cotto fades in fights at the end doesn't have the strongest chin ever and his face is fucking pure scar tissue bleeds all the time. I don't think a fighter with those attributes can make think that Margarito been doing this the whole time.

[Kirkland Laing]

Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.

Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.

I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.

Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!

1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.

2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.

Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”

Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”

Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”

Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”

Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”

Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”

Don't shoot the messenger

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

[El Kabong]

Would he not guess something is amiss when the wraps are off? I mean after a fight and all that hardens in place would it not feel different

[Beanflicker]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg didn't know about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

[El Kabong]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg knew about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

Resto USED to say he had no idea until he was pressed and then he copped to even more shady dealings.

Margarito is a cheater and a liar and earned every beating he took

[beenKOed]

Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.

Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.

I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.

Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!

1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.

2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.

Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”

Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”

Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”

Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”

Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”

Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”

Don't shoot the messenger

Believe it if you want, but I can't. My common sense won't let me. <)

[FinitoElDinamita]

Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.

Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.

I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.

Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!

1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.

2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.

Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”

Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”

Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”

Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”

Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”

Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”

Don't shoot the messenger

Capatillo even confessed to have done the job unbeknownst to Margarito..

[jon09]

Very good read but Margarito's eyes told a very different story on his way to the ring. He looked like he lost his kryptonite on his way to fight superman and that he was busted and soon to be in major trouble afterwards.

[bradlee180]

Antonio Margarito has tremendous Heart.

Only a man with tremendous Heart can be taking a beating yet keep comin' on. No quit in that man.

[IamInuit]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg knew about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

Resto USED to say he had no idea until he was pressed and then he copped to even more shady dealings.

Margarito is a cheater and a liar and earned every beating he took

That always struck me as odd. How do you not know when the guts were pulled out of the gloves?
I mean it would be like winter mitts compared to drivers gloves although they can be one in the same up here

One can at least entertain the idea that Margarito never knew but Capetillo saying he didn't know sure isn't evidence lol. After all he knows where his supper hangs. Most fighters kind of zone out during the wrap either by staring at nothing really or simply tune it out because its been done so many times before.

I've never changed my mind regardless and stick to what I said in this thread and all those that preceded it on the same topic If they attempted to cheat against grandpa Mosley then common sense would dictate that he did against an undefeated prime Cotto and quite possibly over the course of his entire career. One does not need a degree in deductive reasoning to sort that one out.

The only difference between Capetillo/Margarito and Lewis/Resto is the punishment. Resto never fought again and spent close to 3 years in jail ending up penniless with Lewis doing a year and a half or so on a 6 year sentence and was effectively banned for life from sitting in a corner.

Capetillo got a swat and Margarito added 6 months on to his normal 6 month break and slid in early for a fight in Texas and made over a million dollars.

Its freakin surreal world.

I'm not trying to talk down to anyone but again, one would have to be naive, myopic or both to actually believe that an old Shane was the first. It was the first attempt that failed.

[TitoFan]

Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.

Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.

I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.

Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!

1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.

2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.

Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”

Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”

Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”

Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”

Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”

Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”

Don't shoot the messenger

Capatillo even confessed to have done the job unbeknownst to Margarito..

Oh well.... why didn't you say so??
Why..... that makes all the difference now.

If Capetillo says he did the job without Margarito knowing.... who are we to argue??
It's not like Capetillo is going to try to protect Margacheato or anything like that, right?

After all.... Capetillo's reputation is impeccable.

Right?











Seriously dude. Grow the fuck up.

[bradlee180]

The only difference between Capetillo/Margarito and Lewis/Resto is the punishment. Resto never fought again and spent close to 3 years in jail ending up penniless with Lewis doing a year and a half or so on a 6 year sentence and was effectively banned for life from sitting in a corner.

Capetillo got a swat and Margarito added 6 months on to his normal 6 month break and slid in early for a fight in Texas and made over a million dollars.

The main difference is Resto actually fought with the tampered gloves; Margarito did not fight Shane with the doctored handwraps. That's what the athletic commission's there for: to ensure the rules of Boxing are followed. A coach is allowed to observe the opponent's wraps, Coach Nazim called attention to a hard gauze pad, the wraps were removed and done over, and the fight went on with commission approval. You can't punish someone if the crime didn't happen. And there's no evidence nor proof of anything from Margarito's previous fights, only suspicions and doubt from fight-fans. Not enough to ban anyone.