Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

[Kirkland Laing]

Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.

Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.

I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.

Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!

1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.

2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.

Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”

Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”

Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”

Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”

Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”

Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”

Don't shoot the messenger

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

[El Kabong]

Would he not guess something is amiss when the wraps are off? I mean after a fight and all that hardens in place would it not feel different

[ross]

Would he not guess something is amiss when the wraps are off? I mean after a fight and all that hardens in place would it not feel different

Not nessaceraly. His hands are going to be stiff after how many rounds of banging his knuckles against someones skull. He also doesnt unwrap them. Fighters are inherently stupid. Theres plenty of they should know for the benefit of themselves but they dont, like their finances and taxes for instance.

[Fenster]

It's obviously very simple to load gloves, as the trainers said in my previous post, they can even do it without a fighter knowing. And if it's naive to believe it was a one off, it must also be hard to spot, as Margarito was in his 45th fight (Richardson had to feel the pad).

Therefore I guess it's naive to not think there are loads of fighter/trainers loading gloves?

It's not like boxing is big on punishing cheats. Even Margarito was back the next year and rewarded with millions of dollars. Look at how many top fighters hired Panama Lewis after what he did?

[Beanflicker]

Therefore I guess it's naive to not think there are loads of fighter/trainers loading gloves?

It's not like boxing is big on punishing cheats. Even Margarito was back the next year and rewarded with millions of dollars. Look at how many top fighters hired Panama Lewis after what he did?

100%.

[Beanflicker]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg didn't know about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

[El Kabong]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg knew about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

Resto USED to say he had no idea until he was pressed and then he copped to even more shady dealings.

Margarito is a cheater and a liar and earned every beating he took

[IamInuit]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg knew about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

Resto USED to say he had no idea until he was pressed and then he copped to even more shady dealings.

Margarito is a cheater and a liar and earned every beating he took

That always struck me as odd. How do you not know when the guts were pulled out of the gloves?
I mean it would be like winter mitts compared to drivers gloves although they can be one in the same up here

One can at least entertain the idea that Margarito never knew but Capetillo saying he didn't know sure isn't evidence lol. After all he knows where his supper hangs. Most fighters kind of zone out during the wrap either by staring at nothing really or simply tune it out because its been done so many times before.

I've never changed my mind regardless and stick to what I said in this thread and all those that preceded it on the same topic If they attempted to cheat against grandpa Mosley then common sense would dictate that he did against an undefeated prime Cotto and quite possibly over the course of his entire career. One does not need a degree in deductive reasoning to sort that one out.

The only difference between Capetillo/Margarito and Lewis/Resto is the punishment. Resto never fought again and spent close to 3 years in jail ending up penniless with Lewis doing a year and a half or so on a 6 year sentence and was effectively banned for life from sitting in a corner.

Capetillo got a swat and Margarito added 6 months on to his normal 6 month break and slid in early for a fight in Texas and made over a million dollars.

Its freakin surreal world.

I'm not trying to talk down to anyone but again, one would have to be naive, myopic or both to actually believe that an old Shane was the first. It was the first attempt that failed.

[bradlee180]

The only difference between Capetillo/Margarito and Lewis/Resto is the punishment. Resto never fought again and spent close to 3 years in jail ending up penniless with Lewis doing a year and a half or so on a 6 year sentence and was effectively banned for life from sitting in a corner.

Capetillo got a swat and Margarito added 6 months on to his normal 6 month break and slid in early for a fight in Texas and made over a million dollars.

The main difference is Resto actually fought with the tampered gloves; Margarito did not fight Shane with the doctored handwraps. That's what the athletic commission's there for: to ensure the rules of Boxing are followed. A coach is allowed to observe the opponent's wraps, Coach Nazim called attention to a hard gauze pad, the wraps were removed and done over, and the fight went on with commission approval. You can't punish someone if the crime didn't happen. And there's no evidence nor proof of anything from Margarito's previous fights, only suspicions and doubt from fight-fans. Not enough to ban anyone.

[walrus]

These men have been wearing gloves their whole life. I have a hard time believing, even if they didn't know someone loaded them, that they would not know the difference. It's their profession, they should be in tune with every aspect.

I would be disgusted at anyone one who would do such a thing. As we have seen time and again, boxing can be fatal. to add things to inflict more damage is the equivalent to attempted murder. I know that may be intense but I respect boxers and what they do. I don't watch boxing to see a car wreck. I watch it to see men with an incredible talent compete in the ultimate sport. You play baseball, you play football, you don't play boxing.

[IamInuit]

The only difference between Capetillo/Margarito and Lewis/Resto is the punishment. Resto never fought again and spent close to 3 years in jail ending up penniless with Lewis doing a year and a half or so on a 6 year sentence and was effectively banned for life from sitting in a corner.

Capetillo got a swat and Margarito added 6 months on to his normal 6 month break and slid in early for a fight in Texas and made over a million dollars.

The main difference is Resto actually fought with the tampered gloves; Margarito did not fight Shane with the doctored handwraps. That's what the athletic commission's there for: to ensure the rules of Boxing are followed. A coach is allowed to observe the opponent's wraps, Coach Nazim called attention to a hard gauze pad, the wraps were removed and done over, and the fight went on with commission approval. You can't punish someone if the crime didn't happen. And there's no evidence nor proof of anything from Margarito's previous fights, only suspicions and doubt from fight-fans. Not enough to ban anyone.

Not really because he would have. He still got a gift for criminal intent. He'd to ten years for that same premeditation on the street. Claiming he didn't know he had a gun in his pocket would not amount to jack. Like I said it does not take a rocket scientist to infer that he cheated before if he was about to cheat with Shane. Not sure why that's so hard to grasp. Btw I dont care what Nationality he is ftr. If he was Dogrib from Northern Canada I'd be saying the same thing.

[bradlee180]

Not really because he would have. He still got a gift for criminal intent. He'd to ten years for that same premeditation on the street. Claiming he didn't know he had a gun in his pocket would not amount to jack. Like I said it does not take a rocket scientist to infer that he cheated before if he was about to cheat with Shane. Not sure why that's so hard to grasp. Btw I dont care what Nationality he is ftr. If he was Dogrib from Northern Canada I'd be saying the same thing.

Athletic Commision did what it's there for: enforce rules of Boxing, prevent cheating.
He didn't fight with the pads. Case closed.

[Andre]

I was always uncertain and hesitant to put the boots in on Margarito; mainly because talcum powder over old wraps would come out looking exactly like white goop same as casting plaster after 12 rounds of mushing in punches and the sweat etc,there isnt much difference between the two. Specially when you think they couldnt prove the particle make up on analysis.

The only thing that makes me doubt it is: innocent people look guilty when they dont demand a lie detector themselves to prove their own innocence.
I would be screaming for one in the same position; if I were innocent I could do the test with no fear and it would shake my detractors to the roots.They'd of thought of it with as much to lose as he has lost when in his prime and in demand like that, believe me they would of thought of it if they were 100% innocent. So I have my doubts now as they folded way too easy.

[Beanflicker]

You can't punish someone if the crime didn't happen.

WHAT?!

So people don't get charged for attempted murder, attempted rape, attempted robbery, ect, conspiracy to commit ect ect??

The crime DID happen when Marg was given illegal wraps. Just because your plan was foiled doesn't mean you get off. Scooby Doo and gang foiled plans every week, but the perps still went to jail.

[Kirkland Laing]

How likely is it that the trainer did it without Margarito knowing? You're doing something that could potentially end his career overnight and destroy his name, have him mentioned in the same breath as Resto etc. and you're not going to tell him?

Well that's the thing, there is plausible deniability there, but I think any rational mind would assume that Marg didn't know about it.

You just don't undertake something as serious as loading gloves without telling the fighter, in my opinion anyway.

Not to mention if it's discovered after he seriously injures somebody he could be sued out of existence.

There's no way a professional trainer in the corner for hundreds of pro fights turns up for his nth world title fight without enough gauze to make the knuckle pads but just enough to do the rest of the wraps and just happens to have some old bloody shitty stuff from a previous fight that he's kept in his bag. Along with some plaster of paris powder.