Is Mayweather a all time great?

Floyd is unique in boxing, he outsmarted some of the smartest minds in boxing to get control of his career and then turned around years later to hurt them even more when he switched to SHOWTIME, probably with Al Hamon's help.
Now he is The Man, the one everyone wants to fight, the guy who controls the lottery ticket. I don't always like the way he fights but it's great to watch him give the finger to Arum, HBO and at times the sanctioning bodies of boxing.
I don't know if that will help him or hurt him with the ATG list.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Floyd was best at the lower weight but he has proved a great fighter by dominating at a weight that is not his best weight. If there were great weltered like Leonard and Hearns he would get beaten. No shame.

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Nope, never, never ever would Floyd lose. Not vs Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Benitez, Sanchez, JCC, Argeullo, Pryor, not vs a single one of them......I bet Floyd could fight them all in 1 night, never lose a round, and not allow 1 single drop of sweat to hit the canvas.


Because he is Floyd.....and because of him Floyd now equals Greatest. There is only one Floyd, and he is no doubt Great, the Greatest of the Great....all must bow before him!

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Yes, I know where you are coming from. Passion is good but it goes to a crazy level with Floyd. If I express my passion for Manny people get uppity and I am a Pactard. I do tend to go on and on about Floyd's jab because I watch his fights just to see it but I think Manny is a better fighter, he's much more ballsy takes more chances is far more exciting to watch and has a funny accent. There, I said it.

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Originally Posted by Master

Floyd was best at the lower weight but he has proved a great fighter by dominating at a weight that is not his best weight. If there were great weltered like Leonard and Hearns he would get beaten. No shame.

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Leonard would be a unique challenge for Floyd and he'd be in for what for there.

Hearns could not beat Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

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Originally Posted by Master

Floyd was best at the lower weight but he has proved a great fighter by dominating at a weight that is not his best weight. If there were great weltered like Leonard and Hearns he would get beaten. No shame.

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Leonard would be a unique challenge for Floyd and he'd be in for what for there.

Hearns could not beat Mayweather.

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Based on?

Hearns style was based on range and power. I can see that being a somewhat easily surmountable issue for Floyd. His length would give him a slight ungainliness against Floyd who would exploit it and counter him all night. I think he'd eventually score a KO against the reasonably chinny Hearns.

Hearns was also fast but not as quick as Floyd.

Hagler too. After what I seen Floyd do to Canelo I doubt Hagler could really beat Floyd.

I have to be honest here. I am not appraising who I would like to win or how emotions say, only on who I think would win based on who I would actually bet a large sum of money on if I had to.

Of course Hagler has GREAT chances to beat Floyd of course, not to say he can't beat him. Just that most often he wouldn't.

You can believe that, and I can't say I agree with either but you have your ideas and presented them in a respectable manner.

Maybe it was a bit over the top to say Hearns CANT beat him, he could also, I just can't imagine the scenario on fight night where it happens in fact.

Maybe I have been exposed to TV commercialisation of boxers like Floyd too much though and not of Hearns and Hagler so much, that could be it! lol

I look at them and see similarities with MArgarito and Alvarez, not same but similar shape and qualities.

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Hearns style was based on range and power. I can see that being a somewhat easily surmountable issue for Floyd. His length would give him a slight ungainliness against Floyd who would exploit it and counter him all night. I think he'd eventually score a KO against the reasonably chinny Hearns.

Hearns was also fast but not as quick as Floyd.

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I am not familiar with Hearns at all. Never seen him fight don't know his record but I think your brief description of his style makes sense that Floyd would do well against that particular style. I think after the Maidana fight we got a taste of what can beat Floyd.

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Max Power

Hearns style was based on range and power. I can see that being a somewhat easily surmountable issue for Floyd. His length would give him a slight ungainliness against Floyd who would exploit it and counter him all night. I think he'd eventually score a KO against the reasonably chinny Hearns.

Hearns was also fast but not as quick as Floyd.

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I am not familiar with Hearns at all. Never seen him fight don't know his record but I think your brief description of his style makes sense that Floyd would do well against that particular style. I think after the Maidana fight we got a taste of what can beat Floyd.

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Well I was only a little kid when he was prominent but based on what I have seen, namely his famous fights, he was very very good, one of the best. But does get widely overrated as most famous boxers both past and current do. But Floyd is Floyd.

I would say that Floyd is the undisputed greatest wanker in history of the sport too if it weren't for his little brother Adrien Broner lol

Hearns would be a terrible match up for Mayweather his reach and power would be all she wrote. Hearns has a 80 inch reach dude Mayweather has always had the reach over his opponents. So if he can not outbox Hearns which no one ever did he would have to go for the kill and unlike Leonard his offense was not as good and i really do not think his chin would hold up if he went for the kill. As for Leonard i just think he would outwork Mayweather at ww not sure how Bentiez fight would go very boring. Duran Mayweather best beat but Jlc did give him a lot of problems. I think pac gets smashed by all the guys from the 80's because they were to big and were to fast and to well trained. Also when were talking about atg Mayweather is in the top 15 and pac i would say is in top 25 in my rankings anyhow.

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

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Care to name 20 guys who deserved to be ranked above Mayweather p4p of all time?

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1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Manny Pacquiao
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes

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1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali <~~~~I rate Floyd higher
4. Joe Louis <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
5. Roberto Duran <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
8. Benny Leonard <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
9. Manny Pacquiao <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
11. Carlos Monzon <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
12. Rocky Marciano <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher - HAHAHA Marciano 12th of all time? Lmao.
13. Ezzard Charles <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
14. Archie Moore <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
15. Sandy Saddler <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
20. Alexis Arguello <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
21. Barney Ross <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
22. Evander Holyfield <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
23. Ike Williams <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
24. Salvador Sanchez <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
25. George Foreman <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
26. Kid Gavilian <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
27. Larry Holmes <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher


Just my opinion, and I don't even like Floyd.

But Marciano ? That's not right.

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

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Care to name 20 guys who deserved to be ranked above Mayweather p4p of all time?

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1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Manny Pacquiao
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes

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1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali <~~~~I rate Floyd higher
4. Joe Louis <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
5. Roberto Duran <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
8. Benny Leonard <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
9. Manny Pacquiao <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
11. Carlos Monzon <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
12. Rocky Marciano <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher - HAHAHA Marciano 12th of all time? Lmao.
13. Ezzard Charles <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
14. Archie Moore <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
15. Sandy Saddler <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
20. Alexis Arguello <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
21. Barney Ross <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
22. Evander Holyfield <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
23. Ike Williams <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
24. Salvador Sanchez <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
25. George Foreman <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
26. Kid Gavilian <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
27. Larry Holmes <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher


Just my opinion, and I don't even like Floyd.

But Marciano ? That's not right.

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You rate Floyd higher than Ali and Louis but not Dempsey?

i dont understand how anybody thinks that floyd beats hearns. hearns is too long and has too good of a jab. he is also very fast. hearns completely outboxed leonard for their fight and the only reason that leonard won was because he came right at him. leonard had amazing speed and great power. floyd wouldnt have the power to keep hearns off of him.

Demsey didn't even fight the best people because good amount of them were black so he not on any of my lists he even admits to the shit. The only fighters i would rate over Mayweather in the past 25 years of fighting are the Following Holyfeild and Lewis. Reason for Lewis is because he was one of the best Heavyweights to ever walk the planet and avenged his losses and beat the shit out the next generation Champ making his a face a fucking Vag. As for Holyfeild most talk about pound for pound a lot around here but Holyfeild despite starting at 175 went on to beat hof in his 12th fight and become invincible at cw then went up to heavyweight in its deepest era and beat damn near everyone while being out weight 20 to 40 pounds. You can point at his lose but most of them were after he was 40 if Mayweather stays in the game till he is 48 years old he gonna have that 0 erased. Let me say i hold hw division in high regard and that fact that Holyfeild Moved up and is consider by most to be a top 10 atg hw says alot to me. but thats just how i feel i am open to debate as long as we don't bash the greats now and of yesteryear please.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Hearns would be a terrible match up for Mayweather his reach and power would be all she wrote. Hearns has a 80 inch reach dude Mayweather has always had the reach over his opponents. So if he can not outbox Hearns which no one ever did he would have to go for the kill and unlike Leonard his offense was not as good and i really do not think his chin would hold up if he went for the kill. As for Leonard i just think he would outwork Mayweather at ww not sure how Bentiez fight would go very boring. Duran Mayweather best beat but Jlc did give him a lot of problems. I think pac gets smashed by all the guys from the 80's because they were to big and were to fast and to well trained. Also when were talking about atg Mayweather is in the top 15 and pac i would say is in top 25 in my rankings anyhow.

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You must be on drugs with that post. Top 15 and 25... Really?

They are both top 10, along with Leonard. Whether the other guys make it from the 80's idk because there have been and are so many good fighters lb for lb since as well.

The Pac comment might have some merit because of Pac's natural size, I am unsure how big those 80's guys were now, Hagler sure he was pretty tank so that is a respectable opinion but to think that Hearns would be a favourite over Mayweather falls into a lighter category than your usual OTNB antics!

I don't think Mayweather would really sweat the reach of Hearns all that much. As if Floyd could not outbox Hearns my god!

Alvarez would have smashed Hagler. And look what Floyd did to him!

The only guy I am certain would pose a real big threat to Floyd would be Leonard because of the all round talent and the athleticism. Floyd would still be the favourite though you gotta give him that.

As for Pac. The prime+roided version. There is no telling how he could have performed against those bigger guys because they did not have the same speed or athleticism as Pac and definitely not the strength, synthetic as it was. Hagler and Leonard might have been too much for him to handle, much as I believe Canelo might be the same for Pac today.

But Pac would smash the shit out of Hearns, I'd lay a sum on that!

I really rate the 80's limit weight fighters highly, all of them are atleast top 20 and atleast Leonard close to the top. But this aura of invincibility your ascribing them is a bit over the top, they were the best there ever was THEN, MAYBE not now!

And the degrading way you try to belittle both Pac and Floyd by ranking them out of the top 10 and even top 20 exposes you as a troll! lol

No sober analyst could really swallow that garbage!

Lol dude Mayweather would lose to Leonard most just on out put Leonard had way better offense. He dealt with master in defense in Bentiez and tore him apart when he was not even prime yet. Hearns was a beast who carried his power up to fucking cw and was never out boxed in his prime. You think Oscar gave Mayweather problems please Hearns beats Mawyeather based on reach and size not mention be able to box near the same level. Hearns is the worst fucking match up for Mayweather besides Leonard that i can think of and if you don't think so all i can say is you overrate this era more then old timers do theres all i have to say. You make some ok points but on this one i think full of shit really anyhow oh well. I mean if a 34 year Old Oscar fighting part time could give Mayweather a go and think Hearns can't i really don't know dude.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Demsey didn't even fight the best people because good amount of them were black so he not on any of my lists he even admits to the shit. The only fighters i would rate over Mayweather in the past 25 years of fighting are the Following Holyfeild and Lewis. Reason for Lewis is because he was one of the best Heavyweights to ever walk the planet and avenged his losses and beat the shit out the next generation Champ making his a face a fucking Vag. As for Holyfeild most talk about pound for pound a lot around here but Holyfeild despite starting at 175 went on to beat hof in his 12th fight and become invincible at cw then went up to heavyweight in its deepest era and beat damn near everyone while being out weight 20 to 40 pounds. You can point at his lose but most of them were after he was 40 if Mayweather stays in the game till he is 48 years old he gonna have that 0 erased. Let me say i hold hw division in high regard and that fact that Holyfeild Moved up and is consider by most to be a top 10 atg hw says alot to me. but thats just how i feel i am open to debate as long as we don't bash the greats now and of yesteryear please.

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Right, here I agree with you completely about Dempsey. in fact I would go so far as to say he was a bum champion. That's right a bum! His career has been described as all "smoke and mirrors" by some very knowlegable people (mates of mine lol).

And sure Holyfield is understandable, his performance at CW has been unparalleled and subsequently winning the HW title 4 times in that era qualifies him. But Lewis, although my favourite HW and possibly the best one there ever has been, does not qualify for a lb for lb greatness.

HW boxing and limited weight division boxing are kind of like different sports, the game is the same but the nature of being able to come in all shapes and sizes makes the playing field necessarily complicated and sometimes unfair!

Holyfield yes, Lennox no, Dempsey HELL no, Mayweather probably number 1 (that is if the gimp can prove he can beat Pac!)

Pac got fucking flattened by fucking Jmm he not lasting a second with Hearns. The second he goes in and is of blanced and countered he is going to sleep Duran style my friend. Hearns fucking lost one time to Leonard at ww and he had to go through Hell to get to Hearns you underrate them very badly.

Oscar De La Hoya is also one of the toppest boxers.

34 is not old for a boxer these days, hasn't been for a long time.

mid 30's is the NATURAL PRIME of a boxer! Now they are allowed to reach it!

As for Hearns power, do you really think that he could hit harder than some of the opponents of Mayweather? Seriously, take a look at them.

Take a REAL good look at Hearns and then guys like Alvarez. You bring those guys in to fight Floyd at a catch weight (lb for lb) and you will see what I mean.

Also let's not forget a very important issue for this topic. What was THEN considered a certain weight range, TODAY is in actual fact about 2 weight ranges below, Why? Because of the weigh in process and the dehydration they now undertake.

I think you overrate the admittedly great talents of Hearns (I in fact declared that remember) but most strikingly you have devastatingly underrated the abilities of Mayweather!

The guys a dick but please I have never seen such incredible skills.

And Benitez please, PLEASE! How can you compare the levels there!

Hearns carried his power all the way through to cw the man was a legit champ at Lhw. Jmm is a 40 year old man who weighed less then Hearns had less reach and power and laid out fucking Pac like he killed him i thought he was dead. Who has Pac koed besides Cotto who was a prime contender at 147 i mean he really has not am i wrong. As for the Ginger Kid he his best win is Trout close fight and then lost every fucking round to Mayweather so how good he is i do not know. Bentiez is closer to Mayweathers skill then you think and Leonard destroyed him who is close to Leonard that Mayweather has beat. Oscar was a part time fighter at the time look what he went on to do after words not mention he lost a lot of his big fights yet he gave Mayweather hell with his reach and jab something Leonard and Hearns were better at.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Pac got fucking flattened by fucking Jmm he not lasting a second with Hearns. The second he goes in and is of blanced and countered he is going to sleep Duran style my friend. Hearns fucking lost one time to Leonard at ww and he had to go through Hell to get to Hearns you underrate them very badly.

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I am sorry but I think rating Thomas Hearns in the top 20, possibly the edge of the top 10 as the greatest boxers of all time including current and all boxers since him as a pretty fucking FLATTERING rating mate!!

You always have to clump the top fighters of an era together and assess how they performed against each other as a proof of how they'd be unbeatable for those of the current era. Maybe they were challenged by each other simply because that's what they were purely up against.

How do you know Leonard could have beaten a prime Pac at a comparable weight? What visual evidence can you produce of their fights to prove that point?

He definitely could have, that's not my point here, the point is that you make a lot of assumptions without actually pointing to some performances in which it could be noted that Pac (or Floyd) would not handle that.

Pac's beaten bigger fighters. Floyd has too. JMM is a very good bloody fighter too!

I am saying at 147 i would give the edge to Leonard over all of them if they fought at the weight class. Not doing pound for pound hear i am saying at 147 I fell Hearns and Leonard beat Mayweather and Pac and if they fight at 154 i fell there chances are even because Hearns was even better there and Leonard i wont go with Hagler because he was a mw champ i see no chance for them there. As for Benitez have you Followed his Career when he was youngest champ 40-0 was 140 and 147 champ and Leonard fucking beat the shit out of him he was a great fighter.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

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Originally Posted by Vendettos

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Originally Posted by bradlee180

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Care to name 20 guys who deserved to be ranked above Mayweather p4p of all time?

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1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb
8. Benny Leonard
9. Manny Pacquiao
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Carlos Monzon
12. Rocky Marciano
13. Ezzard Charles
14. Archie Moore
15. Sandy Saddler
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre
20. Alexis Arguello
21. Barney Ross
22. Evander Holyfield
23. Ike Williams
24. Salvador Sanchez
25. George Foreman
26. Kid Gavilian
27. Larry Holmes

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1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali <~~~~I rate Floyd higher
4. Joe Louis <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
5. Roberto Duran <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
6. Willie Pep
7. Harry Greb <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
8. Benny Leonard <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
9. Manny Pacquiao <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
9. Sugar Ray Leonard
10. Pernell Whitaker <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
11. Carlos Monzon <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
12. Rocky Marciano <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher - HAHAHA Marciano 12th of all time? Lmao.
13. Ezzard Charles <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
14. Archie Moore <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
15. Sandy Saddler <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
16. Jack Dempsey
17. Marvin Hagler <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
18. Julio Cesar Chavez
19. Eder Jofre <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
20. Alexis Arguello <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
21. Barney Ross <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
22. Evander Holyfield <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
23. Ike Williams <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
24. Salvador Sanchez <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
25. George Foreman <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
26. Kid Gavilian <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher
27. Larry Holmes <~~~~ I rate Floyd higher


Just my opinion, and I don't even like Floyd.

But Marciano ? That's not right.

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You rate Floyd higher than Ali and Louis but not Dempsey?

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I most certainly do rate him higher than Dempsey, I musta missed him, you'd be surprised the amount of copy n paste I had to do in that post lol.

As for Mayweather and Pacs rating for atg i think top 15 is good for Mayweather, i rate pac lower because he could never beat Jmm and Morales was done at top level i fell when he beat him not to mention him being knocked the fuck out when he was champ at the lower weights. Mayweather resume is great one but it lost some luster because time of the fights not that i blame Mayweather for it. As for Pac he has great wins but also has some bad ko loses and never really manged to conving beat Jmm then got vicious ko by the man when he was 40 years of age. 147 run was good but Oscar was done did you see him fight night, Mosley had not won a fight in 2 years, Clotty is a gatekeeper, Got a huge gift against Jmm then got Koed and then there is Cotto his best win but was also Clobbered by Margarito not long before its a good run but top 10 run no. Margarito at 154 for a title was a joke because he had not won in over 2 years as well i mean it kinda shit i might bump him in top 20 for lower weights. I can not exclude the older guys either because if they were beast in there era they most also get there dues boxing has alot good fucking fighters in it hard to rank dude.

maxpower is so smart though. how could you ever disagree with him?

I do not feel that Max is a dumbass but i fell he ranks this era like old people rank there eras only worse at times i guess. I mean when it comes to heavyweights he has a chip on his shoulder for what ever reason and seems to not want to give any dues to fights from the 60's back in any weight class.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

I do not feel that Max is a dumbass but i fell he ranks this era like old people rank there eras only worse at times i guess. I mean when it comes to heavyweights he has a chip on his shoulder for what ever reason and seems to not want to give any dues to fights from the 60's back in any weight class.

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not just HWs. anybody before the 90's pretty much he says would stand no chance against fighters today. he is alright when it comes to modern boxing discussion but should leave history to the big boys.

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

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.....eh, maybe

Hearns is an ATG and he should be higher than Floyd. He dominated and won titles all the way up to light heavy from welterweight, he was exciting and had serious punch power. Something that can not be said about Floyd.

I don't think it is disrespectful to put Mayweather in the top 15 and Pac in the top 20 in atg. Considering all the fighters and weight classes i don't think that is a dis to either fighter Max. I don't think you have followed Hearns or Bentiez careers at all i think you have no knowledge of them to be honest with you.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

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.....eh, maybe

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If he lost all three then yes but 1 of those I don't think would of hurt as much as people put into his undefeated record.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

I don't think it is disrespectful to put Mayweather in the top 15 and Pac in the top 20 in atg. Considering all the fighters and weight classes i don't think that is a dis to either fighter Max. I don't think you have followed Hearns or Bentiez careers at all i think you have no knowledge of them to be honest with you.

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Do not pander to Max, what he knows about boxing could be written on the back of a stamp in capital letters.

The people who say Money is not a ATG don't like him as a person. That should have nothing to do with the greatness of a fighter. I just use my eyes. What he has done in the ring and who he has beat. JMM is a guy who gave Pacman pure hell. In fact you can make a case that Pac never beat him even at his best. That takes nothing away from Pac it's just JMM is a outstanding fighter. The same guy that Floyd made a fool out of. If that's not great then I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by Master

Hearns is an ATG and he should be higher than Floyd. He dominated and won titles all the way up to light heavy from welterweight, he was exciting and had serious punch power. Something that can not be said about Floyd.

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Since when does the excitement you bring and how hard you punch factor in to determining your ATG status?

If those are criteria, you can take guys like Willie Pep off the table right now.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Master

Hearns is an ATG and he should be higher than Floyd. He dominated and won titles all the way up to light heavy from welterweight, he was exciting and had serious punch power. Something that can not be said about Floyd.

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Since when does the excitement you bring and how hard you punch factor in to determining your ATG status?

If those are criteria, you can take guys like Willie Pep off the table right now.

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Those are factors that made him a great fighter. Get over yourself and off Floyd's dick and pay attention.

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Originally Posted by palmerq

I think if mayweather is not rated as an all time great then it's impossible to be rated as an atg in this generation...

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Perfected stated. I'll take it a step further and I dont even like the prick as a human being but the notion of Mayweather not being an atg begs the question then of just what is an all time great period not just in this era. If you dont like the guy or think he ducked a guy over 15 years well fine but to debate this for me would be as daft as the premise that's he's not an atg. I try to keep a lid on it but ffs some of this stuff is off the charts. The owner of this site might want to think about implementing a basic IQ test before activating.

In the end, people can judge p4p, atg, ect with whatever criteria they want. If certain people want to believe that Floyd is a scrub, or that he's simply a "good" fighter who cherry picked his way to an undefeated (as of now, anyway) career, that's their prerogative. In the end, I think you really have to look at how dominant the athlete was and whether or not they were fighting world class opposition, and you have to look at the in-ring ability.

Floyd's record (46-0) in itself isn't impressive. There have been many others who have gone 40 plus - 0. JCC Jr was 46-0 before he lost to Martinez. His dad went to 89-0. Spadafora was 48-0. Valuev was 46-0. Sven Ottke retired at 36-0. Greatness is more than having a pretty record (and that goes for the old timers who have over 200 wins).

But for a guy to go 16 years of fighting at the world class level - which is all champions and top 10 contenders - without slipping once is incredible. And it's not like a Sven Ottke thing where he fought nobodies in virtually all his fights. People talk about Floyd's path like it was safe and he was never in any danger, which is ridiculous, because just think of how many guys in boxing history have been upset by guys who, in hindsight, didn't even belong in the ring with them. Sugar Ray Robinson ran into a bunch of guys that either beat him or gave him the fight of his life. Guys who will show up nobodies top 10, 20, 30, 50 or even 100. Guys like Basora and Brimm. It's always dangerous to be the #1 guy with a target on his back and fighting top ranked guys.

What makes a fighter? Skill, athleticism, heart, boxing IQ, discipline, determination, versatility, ability to absorb punishment, ect.

If you really think about it, how many guys can you name who showed all of these things simultaneously, at an elite level?

There are tons of guys with fantastic athleticism, but they never had the skill to go with it. There are guys who had great skill, but no athleticism to go with it. There are guys who had it all except discipline, and would under train, take guys lightly, and/or eat themselves up into weight classes they had no business fighting in.

You've had insanely talented guys (Zab Judah) who were mental midgets and lacked the discipline to stick to a game plan and the determination to find a way to win. There were guys who had it all, but unfortunately didn't have the god-given ability to take a punch. A lot of guys were great, but were one dimensional and lacked the versatility needed to adapt when they came up to someone who their style didn't work against. Some guys couldn't bust a grape with a punch.

When you really look at it, the guy's who had it all - world class athleticism, skill, boxing IQ, discipline, heart, durability, ect - it's a very short list. You're talking guys like Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Ali, ect. And you're talking Floyd Mayweather. These guys were all special athletes in the sport and they all had their haters in their time. These kinds of fighters don't come around very often so you have to appreciate them while they're here.

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Julius Rain

Theres no way you can say no. Even if he had lost to Castillo, Dela Hoya or Maidana. If he had lost those it wouldn't have mattered.

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.....eh, maybe

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If he lost all three then yes but 1 of those I don't think would of hurt as much as people put into his undefeated record.

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I'll go along with that