Victor Ortiz is a quiter

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Originally Posted by johnsebastianmiran

Ortiz bit off more than he could chew but it was the referee that agreed with the ring doctor. Ortiz' only fault was he didn't stick to his original plan.

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I'm positive that Ortiz looked like he was going to climb out of the ring before the ref called the doc over.

That's how I remember it. Ortiz turning sideways and acting sheepish, then the ref calling in the doctor.

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Originally Posted by armin

why hate on the guy, I hate this shit fans deeming a guy a quiter or some such nonsense. It's boxing, they get hurt, he got taged hard numerous times, and like he said he'd like to be able to speak in old age. I respect guys whom aren't to proud to throw in the towel, nothing wrong with that. I like boxing but hate to see anyone ever hurt in the sport, and guys usually get hurt cause they're to proud to quit or cause the ref or corner aren't throwing in the towel. Good fight, nothing wrong with ortiz's decision those were some bombs he took

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My thoughts as well. This is a sport and while I love the blood and guts aspect the ultimate goal should be to protect the health of the fighters. He got up from the canvass once and put his opponent down several times after.

Maidana was able to dig deeper and credit to him for doing so, but if he (maidana) chose to quit I wouldn't have blamed him either. Both guys took a lot of punishment and delivered a very exciting fight.

I think Ortiz is smart guy for quiting when he did and had guts enough to finish a post fight interview after a devastating lost. Most guys would've left the ring immediately with tears in their throat. He'll get over it and will come back and learn from the lost.

I like many others hope that Maidana gets a world class trainer and quickly. He reminds a lot of Ricardo Torres. Great power and talent but could needs polishing.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by markb018

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Could you post a link to the interview Khan gave where he said he was a great because of the Barrera win, thanks

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“To beat a legend the way I did, it’s a massive highlight in my career, and it will take me on to the next level, get me known around the world and get a lot bigger fights,”

Amir Khan Beats Marco Antonio Barrera: Olympic Silver Medalist Triumphs Over Baby-Faced Assassin | Suite101.com

there is one i can look for more later.

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Everything Khan said is perfectly accurate. Barrera is a legend, Khan did beat him, and the victory (disputed or not) will certainly increase his exposure and lead to bigger fights (ie a Kotelnik title match). Nowhere does he brag and he never once calls himself great or lauds himself in any way in the quote you provided.

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well i beg to differ, saying "to beat a legend the way i did" implies he destroyed him when in fact MAB was a one eyed fighter out there due to a butt in the first round.

I never thought ortiz was a top level exponent at 140 and he barely scraped the 2nd tier of fighters even before maidana took him apart.

Shame he didnt go down with a bit of grace and take his lumps like a man as he would of had half a chance to win the fight.

But marcos just owned him for most of the night and apart from the flash knockdowns was never going to be troubled by ortiz.

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Originally Posted by markb018

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by markb018

“To beat a legend the way I did, it’s a massive highlight in my career, and it will take me on to the next level, get me known around the world and get a lot bigger fights,”

Amir Khan Beats Marco Antonio Barrera: Olympic Silver Medalist Triumphs Over Baby-Faced Assassin | Suite101.com

there is one i can look for more later.

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Everything Khan said is perfectly accurate. Barrera is a legend, Khan did beat him, and the victory (disputed or not) will certainly increase his exposure and lead to bigger fights (ie a Kotelnik title match). Nowhere does he brag and he never once calls himself great or lauds himself in any way in the quote you provided.

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well i beg to differ, saying "to beat a legend the way i did" implies he destroyed him when in fact MAB was a one eyed fighter out there due to a butt in the first round.

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That quote could mean anything. Maybe "the way I did" means to come back after a devestating KO loss and defeat a legend (albeit one who is well past his best), winning every round.

I'm just saying that the quote is ambiguous as best, and nowhere does he call himself great or say anything out of the ordinary. In fact, in terms of boxers talking themselves up that quote is very tame and I see no reason to get bent out of shape about it.

There's nothing wrong with what Ortiz did, it was his choice and its not like he pulled a Derrick Gainer during the fight.

But face it part of the fascination with boxing is seeing guys who are willing to lay everything on the line, who are wired like most people aren't really. Diego Corrales, Morales, etc. We have some internet warriors who post with bad intentions regularly but that's not really the same thing. And Ortiz doesn't seem to be wired like a Corrales either. It doesn't mean he's a coward, he gave a good effort, just wilted under the pressure and didn't react well to the cut.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

There's nothing wrong with what Ortiz did, it was his choice and its not like he pulled a Derrick Gainer during the fight.

But face it part of the fascination with boxing is seeing guys who are willing to lay everything on the line, who are wired like most people aren't really. Diego Corrales, Morales, etc. We have some internet warriors who post with bad intentions regularly but that's not really the same thing. And Ortiz doesn't seem to be wired like a Corrales either. It doesn't mean he's a coward, he gave a good effort, just wilted under the pressure and didn't react well to the cut.

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When Joe Frazier was asked if he would have come out the last round knowing he could very well die and he simply said "yes."

I will reserve judgment on him and his career until his next fight. No question he is a promising fighter...but he needs to learn a lesson from this fight. If he has good heart and character...he will learn form his mistakes and come back strong. If not...well...he might just be another hyped fighter that couldn't take that next step. We should all wait and see before we assume it's the end of line for him.

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by markb018

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Originally Posted by CFH

Everything Khan said is perfectly accurate. Barrera is a legend, Khan did beat him, and the victory (disputed or not) will certainly increase his exposure and lead to bigger fights (ie a Kotelnik title match). Nowhere does he brag and he never once calls himself great or lauds himself in any way in the quote you provided.

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well i beg to differ, saying "to beat a legend the way i did" implies he destroyed him when in fact MAB was a one eyed fighter out there due to a butt in the first round.

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That quote could mean anything. Maybe "the way I did" means to come back after a devestating KO loss and defeat a legend (albeit one who is well past his best), winning every round.

I'm just saying that the quote is ambiguous as best, and nowhere does he call himself great or say anything out of the ordinary. In fact, in terms of boxers talking themselves up that quote is very tame and I see no reason to get bent out of shape about it.

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fair enough, point taken :)

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Again I don't think he is so much a quitter. Even so people that have quit in fights before still had great careers or wasn't taken away from them. He fought the wrong style for the fight and acknowledged it. And I think it was smart of him to say he shouldnt be taking punishment or get beat up that way. Max Kellerman is an idiot for trying to put a negative spin on it saying he didn't wanna go out on his shield when thats not at all what he said. He said he would never end a fight on his back and would stay in there. That means he wants to fight it out and just lay on the canvas knocked out. And when he said he shouldnt be getting beat up like that he didn't mean he didn't want to be a boxer because he got hurt, he meant that he should have been fighting his fight and boxing rather then fighting the other guys fight and taking unnessesary punishment. But I wouldnt expect Max to understand that.

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I don't know what language you watched that interview in but he certainly didn't mean it the way you say.

Asked by Kellerman why he quit his exact words were 'You know I was hurt. I'm not going to go out on my back, I'm not going to lay down for anyone, I'd rather just say I'm going to stop whilst I'm ahead and speak well when I'm older you know.'

He then went on to say that he was young and didn't think he deserved to get beat up like this and that he had a lot of thinking of do.

I don't think it implies he's quitting boxing but he clearly and unequiviqually without any doubt whatsoever made it clear he'd rather pull out of a fight before he got knocked out and that he doesn't want to risk long term injury in the sport.

Not that I think there is anything wrong with that particularly, I mean boxing is a sport at the end of the day, it's not a forced fight to the death. It's inevitable that there will be some kind of fan backlash and they will likely not want to be so quick to support a guy who won't leave everything in the ring but that is entirely his right, its his career, his health and his life and if he values his health and safety more than the accolades of being known as someone who fights to his limits and beyond there is nobody who can say that is wrong.

But don't rewrite what he said, he's not a do or die fighter, maybe in life, but not in the ring and he's admitted as much.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

I never thought ortiz was a top level exponent at 140 and he barely scraped the 2nd tier of fighters even before maidana took him apart.

Shame he didnt go down with a bit of grace and take his lumps like a man as he would of had half a chance to win the fight.

But marcos just owned him for most of the night and apart from the flash knockdowns was never going to be troubled by ortiz.

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:vd:

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I get up at 2am on a sunday morning to watch HBO/Showtime telecasts on a shitty internet stream why.....because i love the sport with a passion

You probably just TIVO`d the whole thing and skipped through till the end just because your hard drive was full up with pee wee playhouse and judge judy

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

I never thought ortiz was a top level exponent at 140 and he barely scraped the 2nd tier of fighters even before maidana took him apart.

Shame he didnt go down with a bit of grace and take his lumps like a man as he would of had half a chance to win the fight.

But marcos just owned him for most of the night and apart from the flash knockdowns was never going to be troubled by ortiz.

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:vd:

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I get up at 2am on a sunday morning to watch HBO/Showtime telecasts on a shitty internet stream why.....because i love the sport with a passion

You probably just TIVO`d the whole thing and skipped through till the end just because your hard drive was full up with pee wee playhouse and judge judy

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i've seen the fight already 4 times, and there were NO flash knock downs from either fighter, they all came from hard, solid shots, and both were hurt

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

I never thought ortiz was a top level exponent at 140 and he barely scraped the 2nd tier of fighters even before maidana took him apart.

Shame he didnt go down with a bit of grace and take his lumps like a man as he would of had half a chance to win the fight.

But marcos just owned him for most of the night and apart from the flash knockdowns was never going to be troubled by ortiz.

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:vd:

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I get up at 2am on a sunday morning to watch HBO/Showtime telecasts on a shitty internet stream why.....because i love the sport with a passion

You probably just TIVO`d the whole thing and skipped through till the end just because your hard drive was full up with pee wee playhouse and judge judy

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you crack me up with your proclamations and spin on fights. You could have been looking thru a steamy shower door with 2 black eyes and could tell they were stiff flush shots. I mean cmon man, why dont you own up to your mistakes or preface your comments with things like,

hey guys from my fuzzy stream they looked like flash knockdowns.

But no, you wheel off some asanine horseshit and state it like known fact, meanwhile everyone is shaking their head at you wondering what planet your from half the time

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

:vd: Stick to sucking Hatton. Those weren't flash knock downs. I doubt you even saw the fight

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I get up at 2am on a sunday morning to watch HBO/Showtime telecasts on a shitty internet stream why.....because i love the sport with a passion

You probably just TIVO`d the whole thing and skipped through till the end just because your hard drive was full up with pee wee playhouse and judge judy

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you crack me up with your proclamations and spin on fights. You could have been looking thru a steamy shower door with 2 black eyes and could tell they were stiff flush shots. I mean cmon man, why dont you own up to your mistakes or preface your comments with things like,

hey guys from my fuzzy stream they looked like flash knockdowns.

But no, you wheel off some asanine horseshit and state it like known fact, meanwhile everyone is shaking their head at you wondering what planet your from half the time

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98% of knockdowns are via "stiff flush shots". Calzaghe got knocked down twice against hopkins and jones with "stiff flush shots" didnt mean he was in trouble on either occasion.

Sure maidana inparticularly looked groggy in the 2nd and walked on to monster punches. But on both occasions he neither took a heavy 8 count or displayed a fighter who wasnt able to defend himself sufficently.

I saw maidana take much heavier punches against kotelnik and brush them off, on this occasion he got laid out 3 times but on none of the occasions did he appear to be out of it.

[quote=hattonthehammer;754735][quote=Violent Demise;754731]

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

98% of knockdowns are via "stiff flush shots". Calzaghe got knocked down twice against hopkins and jones with "stiff flush shots" didnt mean he was in trouble on either occasion.

Sure maidana inparticularly looked groggy in the 2nd and walked on to monster punches. But on both occasions he neither took a heavy 8 count or displayed a fighter who wasnt able to defend himself sufficently.

I saw maidana take much heavier punches against kotelnik and brush them off, on this occasion he got laid out 3 times but on none of the occasions did he appear to be out of it.

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:vd: quote]
there were NO flash knockdowns in the Ortiz/Maidana fight, Calzaghe/Hopkins wasn't a flash knockdown either, he didn't do shit for the remainder of the round, why? cause he felt the punch, he recovered and then the fight went on, Jones/Calzaghe was a flash knockdown, that wasn't even caused by a punch, he hit Joe with his forearm, best example of a flash knockdown was Cotto/Clottey, he went down from a jab and then got up fine