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Shannon Briggs commented that Vitali was better than both George Foreman AND Lennox Lewis. Now I have my doubts but it got me to thinking.
Big George from the 70's vs Lennox Lewis in the late 90's or early part of the 2000's.
How bout bigger George Foreman on his comeback campaign (the version Briggs barely beat) vs the same Lewis.
How you see these two hypotheticals going?
How about a prime Vitali's chances vs both versions of Big George?
Foreman couldn't deal with Lewis. Too big, too powerful.
Lewis was a strong motherfucker probabably as strong as Foreman so if it came to it, I think Lewis' superrior skills and accuracy would of found Foreman in a lot of trouble.
That's if Lewis brought his A game of course.... I'm not sure that would be a guarantee against an old Foreman :confused:
i highly doubt that Lewis was stronger than Foreman, and it's not like George was a small heavyweight hell he was called Big George for a reason, old Lewis beats a young George mainly cause he was sloppy and Lewis would keep him at the end of his jab all night long while George winged away and hit nothing or gloves, old Foreman would blast out an overconfident young Lewis by snapping his jab then firing the straight right right behind it and dropping him like a ton of bricks, IMO both guys would have beaten Vitali
I really see a peak Lewis being too sharp,calm and pin point for young rough house and wiiiide reckless Foreman of 70's. That uppercut would be hellish on him. Take early comebacking Foreman to beat Lewis and Tyson though of respected times. That jab was b.r.u.t.a.l. Now the slow version that got robbed vs duck and cover Shannon Briggs was terrible and got ears boxed badly by Shultz,Morrison prior...thinking Lewis does the same.
Take either Foreman to beat Vitali...
I would seriously give even a young George a good to decent shot at beating any version of Lewis. Why you ask? Foreman is one of the hardest hitting HWs ever, hell it could be argued that he may be the hardest hitting HW of all time. When you lift a 215 pound Frazier off the canvas with 1 of your uppercuts, that's a hell a lot of power and strength. Lewis too iffy of a chin. Sure young George was reckless, but if he connected it would be lights out on Lewis, best believe that.
Here's another what if concerning Foreman. What if the prime Foreman had the boxing smarts and maturity of the old Foreman? That would be 1 hell of a fighter. :o
How about a prime Vitali's chances vs both versions of Big George?
Can't believe so many people are taking and old version of George to beat vitali...I mean the old george that got beat by schulz but got a gift, the one getting his ass boxed off by moorer before the knockout shot. I can't see an old george beating a prime vitali, vitali is quicker, and he's not going to get caught and knocked out with one shot like moorer did. As for a young george against a prime vitali who the hell knows, honestly think it could go either way. Prime lewis mostly likely takes both versions, but his chin is dentable and george does pack a punch.
What if we ban you.:)
Well there's no way to judge who the strongest is but I can tell you that Evander Holyfield recently stated that only two fighters were stronger than him in his career and they were both Foreman and Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Mate, 'Big' George stood at 6ft 31/2 and weighed on average 225lbs. (sort of 'on par' with a Razor Ruddock type frame)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
For the better part of his career, Lennox Lewis was always around 245lbs and stood at 6ft 5 so he was way bigger.
i reckon lewis would have won 9 times out of 10 against foreman at any stage of his carear
the klits and lewis are the best three fighters in the history of the heavyweights
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! you fucking crack me up!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Ali, Louis, Holmes, Frazier, and hell even Holyfield have all accomplished more than Lewis and the Klitschko's, better opposition and more career defining fights, and definitely more skilled
ps: by your own admission then Haye isn't shit compared to Wlad or Vitali then
...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
Would not ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
Regarding the young and prime George Foreman...
You better come with steel balls and granite chin, if it's in your destiny to face the badass, that is George Foreman, or you have no chance whatsoever!
The guy equipped with the best "tools of destruction" in the ring, equally brought everynight, the "hate of mankind" that can only spell doom to and for, any game oncomers.
Size alone will not deter the Big Bad George of old to administer this first class beating, with that said, the Klitschkos and Lewis are vulnerable. These three "superheavies", maybe just a bit Lewis, likewise, leave a lot on the "intestinal fortitude" and the "G-force" department, to have a decent go at it with Big George.
Ali, was fortunate enough to have both attributes, plus the "novelty" gameplan at fightnight in Kinshasha, Zaire, working to perfection, hence the one-of-the-, if not the greatest triumph reversal in the sport of boxing, when as a heavy underdog, he beat the mighty George, knocking him silly in round eight!
Regarding the older version, and second time around champ, George Foreman...
The Klitschkos will beat the older version of George Foreman, it is not even going to be close. Big George will be pummelled, for without the benefit of an excellent cardio and with significantly diminished agility, this result is unavoidable. This is a root canal visit for George, at the dental office.
Prime Lewis, and under Steward, with his A game, has an excellent chance of beating the older version of George... and maybe...just maybe, with his excellent boxing skills with size to boot and speed skill-set, an outside chance of beating even the prime George Foreman. As long as that chin would not a "Rahman" be exposed, then by all means, a decent shot!
My two cents... hate these what if scenarios! Hehehe!
are you kidding me? Lewis has jack shit on Muhammad Ali, Lewis was just lucky that he was champ when the division started to hit it's weakest pointQuote:
Originally Posted by J da BombaWould not ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
...in 2 nights? :-\ maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by J da BombaWould not ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
;D
Lol ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...in 2 nights? :-\ maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by J da BombaWould not ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
;D
if we are comparing them against their time perhaps not, but if lewis for example got in the ring with any of those you mentioned both at their peaks there would be only one winnerQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! you fucking crack me up!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Ali, Louis, Holmes, Frazier, and hell even Holyfield have all accomplished more than Lewis and the Klitschko's, better opposition and more career defining fights, and definitely more skilled
ps: by your own admission then Haye isn't shit compared to Wlad or Vitali then
i dont understand your last sentence
ali is the most overrated boxer in history by a long wayQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
he was great for the sport, and fantastic entertainment inside and outside the ring but massively overrated in terms of his ability
yet he was the first 3 time heavyweight champion, had wins over Liston, Cooper, Patterson, Moore, Chuvalo, Terrell, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Ellis, Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks, he avenged every loss except those against Holmes and Berbick which came when he was completely shot and already suffering from symptoms of ParkinsonsQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44ali is the most overrated boxer in history by a long wayQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
he was great for the sport, and fantastic entertainment inside and outside the ring but massively overrated in terms of his ability
overrarted my ass
Is this in jest? I do really hope so.... otherwise the consequence is unthinkable for quite a few...maybe in hundreds of millions boxing aficionados worldwide stands accused for their consensus of massively over-rating an "entertainer", masquerading as one of the greatest boxers of all time, in Muhammad Ali!Quote:
he was great for the sport, and fantastic entertainment inside and outside the ring but massively overrated in terms of his ability
My own thoughts go something like this..
Lennox poses a sizeable problem to George simply due to his accuracy and power. BUT Lewis had a lot of bad habits too, especially before being KO'ed. Young George can't box worth a piss, but he can hit like a Sherman tank. Lewis liked to stand up tall and he didn't fancy running. Young George has a serious shot of connecting with something barbaric and savagely ending Lewis's night.
Old George probably gets beat up pretty bad against a prime Lewis. There's always the one-shot wonder, ala Moorer/Foreman scenario, but I give that about a 5% chance of playing out. Dumb luck really.
Vitali I think has not been fairly represented in this matchup. Versus the old comebacking George, I see this a landslide victory for Vitali. Too tall, too long, and knows how to fight tall and keep guys at the end of his jab. George gasses and loses a UD. That said, I don't think Vitali stops him, just beats him.
The younger George versus Vitali.... well now thats a humdinger. I've never even seen Vitali hurt, but you gotta imagine the fella to do it is the 70's version that blasted Joe and Kenny into the stratosphere. An older, ill-trained Lewis smacked Vitali with some hellacious shots and Vit took them like a champ, but call me crazy, Lennox's big right isn't quite what the Houston hooker's was back then. Could Vitali have been smart enough to rope-a-dope and be patient and paw and jab and wait for George to gas? Maybe. Good chance of it, I think. But if he couldn't.... there's the guy that knocks Vitali out cold.
For the love of God, I want to see the Lewis/Klitschko fight finished. Oh but it WAS finished, Balboa, didnt you see? It got stopped on cuts! Not. Acceptable.
Also,
I see the Ali song and dance going now. I hated Ali for what he did to my George, and I hated his loud mouth and I hated him beating Joe twice and I hated his Mayweather-ish bullsh*t.
But.....
He is, hands down, the greatest heavyweight of all time. He. Had. It. ALL.
Briggs is full of crap and only said all that to make himself look better for goin the distance with Vitali.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balboa
Lewis and Foreman were much better heavyweights in my opinion.
Foreman himself had said before on air that he believed Lennox was the best heavyweight ever.
yep i agree he was one of the greatest boxers of all time, and posibly up until his time in history was the best HW of all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
things move on tho, athletes get bigger and stronger and better
ali at his best wouldnt have beaten lewis at his best
the brazil football team of 1970 (considered the best of all time) wouldnt have beaten the brazil football team of 2010
cooper had lost 10 fights or something by the time he fought aliQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyet he was the first 3 time heavyweight champion, had wins over Liston, Cooper, Patterson, Moore, Chuvalo, Terrell, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Ellis, Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks, he avenged every loss except those against Holmes and Berbick which came when he was completely shot and already suffering from symptoms of ParkinsonsQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44ali is the most overrated boxer in history by a long wayQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
he was great for the sport, and fantastic entertainment inside and outside the ring but massively overrated in terms of his ability
overrarted my ass
people laugh at haye defending against harrison or wlad defending against chisora, those boys defending against a cooper nowadays would be much more laughable
thing is Ali beat the shit out of Cooper before he ever fought for a world title, unlike Haye who already won titles at Cruiser and now has a trinket at HW, sorry there's not excuse for Haye to fight Harrison, as hard as you tryQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44cooper had lost 10 fights or something by the time he fought aliQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesyet he was the first 3 time heavyweight champion, had wins over Liston, Cooper, Patterson, Moore, Chuvalo, Terrell, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Ellis, Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Spinks, he avenged every loss except those against Holmes and Berbick which came when he was completely shot and already suffering from symptoms of ParkinsonsQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44ali is the most overrated boxer in history by a long wayQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::...In your opinion ofcourse.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
But a prime Ali would whip their asses in one night.
he was great for the sport, and fantastic entertainment inside and outside the ring but massively overrated in terms of his ability
overrarted my ass
people laugh at haye defending against harrison or wlad defending against chisora, those boys defending against a cooper nowadays would be much more laughable
no matter which way you spin it Muhammad Ali shits all over any recent HW's accomplishments or record
If Holland were able to beat this years team so would the Brazil team of 1970, remember they were playing at altitude too. The team were amazing forget fitness they had that but also style and quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44yep i agree he was one of the greatest boxers of all time, and posibly up until his time in history was the best HW of all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
things move on tho, athletes get bigger and stronger and better
ali at his best wouldnt have beaten lewis at his best
the brazil football team of 1970 (considered the best of all time) wouldnt have beaten the brazil football team of 2010
I think Lewis could out point Prime George but Vitali could not.
Old George would never have stepped in the ring with either fighter, he was a marketing gimmick by then.
About Foreman being too small for Lewis.
Prime Briggs around 6'4" 225-230 in the 90s managed to seriously rock Lewis in their fight and Oliver McCall who was around 6'2" and around 225-230 ko Lewis, not to mentioned Rahman who was also 6'2" and around 230 managed to ko Lewis also.
I guess they weren't too small eh? But Prime George at 6'3 and around 220-230 is considered to be too small without a chance. Laughable.
Briggs had serious hand speed you muppet :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
And regarding the KO's, well you saw what happend when Lewis brought his A game.
Thats what it pretty much all boils down to. What version of each guy we are talking about.
Both guys on their best nights? Lewis most of the time IMO.
I hate to admit it but I agree with this wholeheartedly... I'm sure ICB made a good point of this not so long ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44yep i agree he was one of the greatest boxers of all time, and posibly up until his time in history was the best HW of all timeQuote:
Originally Posted by KananKrus
things move on tho, athletes get bigger and stronger and better
ali at his best wouldnt have beaten lewis at his best
the brazil football team of 1970 (considered the best of all time) wouldnt have beaten the brazil football team of 2010
Times change man.
Didn't in 1 of your 1st posts you said George Foreman was too small for Lewis? And your other countrymen also believed Lewis is too big for George physically. And that's what I'm addressing, that Foreman was not too small and that he can ko Lewis. People here in this thread are making out that prime Foreman was a small hw that couldn't compete physically with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boogie ManBriggs had serious hand speed you muppet :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
And regarding the KO's, well you saw what happend when Lewis brought his A game.
Thats what it pretty much all boils down to. What version of each guy we are talking about.
Both guys on their best nights? Lewis most of the time IMO.
I feel ya but the point I was tryin to make was that their physicality is comparable and that Foremans imposing size and reach are not really factors in reclation to Lewis.
I'll admit that Foreman was more of a Knockout merchant but if not only because he had power in both hands, then simply because he was more aggressive. But then i think Lennox Lewis would always be more effective and I'm not sure Foreman had ever been hit by a 245lbs powerpuncher ???.
but we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boogie Man
We already established that Lewis would have to be on his A-game. Lewis was boxing badly and loosing that fight before he got KO'd ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesbut we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boogie Man
Lewis was ahead 39-37 on all 3 cardsQuote:
Originally Posted by The Boogie ManWe already established that Lewis would have to be on his A-game. Lewis was boxing badly and loosing that fight before he got KO'd ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesbut we DO know what happened when Lewis got tagged by a solid right hand by a somewhat decent hitter of about the same size as Foreman (Rahman)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boogie Man
Are you fucking stoned? Yeah Ali would have folded like Lewis did against a drug addled McCall, and quit like Vitali against a pillow puncher like Chris Byrd with a few rounds to go. Sore arm my ass...Ali fought with a broken jaw against Ken Norton for ten rounds. Oh yeah sure and Ali would have laid down against a guy of Corrie Sanders level like Wlad. Give me a break.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Oh and you don't think Joe Louis didn't chop guys the Klits size down in his day? How about Abe Simon and Buddy Baer? Or Dempsey? Who'd he win the title from? 6'5" Jess Willard.
Lewis took hits from Tua fine, and Foreman was also a relatively plodding fighter, how would he have teld with Lennox's jab? Also Lewis was able to land a shot as hard as anyone, and he could have knocked young FOreman out cold.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Who did Holmes and Frazier beat that made their resume better than Lewis or Holyfield's?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! you fucking crack me up!Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Ali, Louis, Holmes, Frazier, and hell even Holyfield have all accomplished more than Lewis and the Klitschko's, better opposition and more career defining fights, and definitely more skilled
ps: by your own admission then Haye isn't shit compared to Wlad or Vitali then
Besides a Ali, who did Joe beat of any great consequence? Even the Klitschko brother's beat more impressive opposition than most of the guys Joe beat.
Are you going to say Ellis and Quary are amazing fighters? Or Chuvalo?
Same with Holmes. He fought in a weaker division than it is right now.
Lewis would have likely beaten any heavyweight in the history of the sport if he was properly trained. Nobody had his combination of intelligence, athleticism, size, skill, and heart.