Quote Originally Posted by Beanflicker View Post
Quote Originally Posted by erics44 View Post

So you keep calling me a hater, i have to accept that theres no motive on your part to call me that?

ive answered your question more than once

You've labelled yourself as a hater, why shouldn't I refer to you as such? If you labeled yourself as a vegetarian, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Libertarian, a communist, a conservative, a liberal, or any other label you can think of, would I be wrong to refer to you as something you freely labelled yourself as?

You "explained" why Ali's holding and Wlad's holding are different, but the reasons you gave are factually inaccurate.

Wlad holds more than he punches? You honestly believe that there is a Wlad fight where the number of clinches exceeded the number of punches he threw?

And you also say it's different because although Ali clinched a lot, he didn't "lean" on guys like Wlad does. That's also factually inaccurate. Ali would tie guys up with one arm, and use the other arm to pull down hard on the opponent's head, causing stress and fatigue on the neck and back of the opponent. This was a claim made by several opponents (including Frazier and George Chuvalo). Ask anybody that trains muay thai how tiring being in the muay thai clinch is (which is essentially what Ali did to opponents).

So no, you haven't answered my question sufficiently.
you called me a hater several times before I tried to deflect your approach to this discussion from this focus, I fully admit don't like wlad klits reign (hate is a very strong word), is your whole argument based on you thinking I hate wlad klit?

why is what I said about alis grapple and wlads clinch factually inaccurate?

round 1 v sam peter 2 (a fight a big fan of klits highlighted as a boxing lesson) wlad klit held more than he threw meaningful punches (obviously a matter of opinion), over the course of a fight he probably punches more than he holds but the ratio is by far the closest out of every other significant fighter in history by miles and miles

I didn't say ali clinched a lot, nor did I say the only difference was that there was leaning involved, so possibly someone saying that might or might not have said something that is factually inaccurate I don't know