Does anyone think George Zimmerman is guilty of murder?

[Beanz]

Trayvon Martin no longer has the luxury of being able to defend himself against the acusations that Zimmermans defence team are feeding the media. You have already made your mind up Lyle so why pretend otherwise?

If it pleases the court I would like to present Lyle's Exhibit A of Media Bias



....your thoughts?

My thoughts are firstly this is not a court of Law. We are not privvy to ALL the facts in the case. The idea that Media Bias is exclusively the domain of of those trying to explain the death of a young unarmed black guy by trying to invent a racial element that is not there, whilst the defendants team are really the victims in this misrepresentation of the truth is ludicrous.


I would ask your thoughts but this is not a point scoring debate.


To most people outside of the states this case is pretty mind blowing. The idea that an unarmed teenager who was not trespassing is somehow responsible for being shot dead by a guy, because, you Lyle, and many others like you, assume that he started a fight with an ARMED man and therefore because the ARMED man was possibly losing and ....wait for it (because this is for many virtually incomprehensible) AFRAID FOR HIS OWN LIFE that somehow means the charges should at most be manslaughter ?


Media bias should be the least of your worries.

[Beanflicker]

Wow this kinda turned into a shit show lol.

Hey Tito, to answer your question on page one, I understand what you're saying completely, in the logic that you don't deserve to get shot for pushing someone. I'm no lawyer so I can't tell you 100% how that would go but in Florida I think that falls under the "Stand Your Ground" act, where you're not legally bound to try to escape someone who is threatening you with physical harm. This really hinges on who started the conflict, you can't initiate a conflict with someone, and then shoot them when they retaliate.

I live in Canada so I'm surrounded by people who hate guns because our laws are very strict here. I happen to like the concept of firearm possession for self protection, especially for women and smaller guys. We seen you can take one punch from someone, fall down, hit your head and die or end up living the rest of your days like Gerald McClellan.

Sometimes people get shot doing home invasions, and people will say "well a thief doesn't deserve to die for stealing". Yeah maybe not, but if it's your house being broken into and you have kids, a wife, ect there, how do you know their intention is just to steal? It's not like you can go and ask him "hey, are you just here to steal my TV or are you going to rape and kill my family."

So in that way I think the individual should have the right to protect themselves, and when you do stupid shit like assault people or break into houses, you need to be prepared for consequences.

[Andre]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

[El Kabong]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

#1 He ended up NOT following Trayvon, he went to get the street sign to tell the Police where to meet him

#2 He didn't say "fucking coon" he said "fucking punks" if you watched my video you would have seen that was CNN drumming up the racial aspect of this case back when they referred to Zimmerman as and I quote "A White Hispanic"

[Andre]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

#1 He ended up NOT following Trayvon, he went to get the street sign to tell the Police where to meet him

#2 He didn't say "fucking coon" he said "fucking punks" if you watched my video you would have seen that was CNN drumming up the racial aspect of this case back when they referred to Zimmerman as and I quote "A White Hispanic"

Street sign. Im going on memory here, wasnt the shop and his car facing out on one road and yet the altercation took place away from there some 100 yard walk around the back of the shop in between an area between flats?

[Beanflicker]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

1. The person who advised him was a dispatcher, who he had no legal obligation to listen to.

2. He never said "fucking coon".

[Andre]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

1. The person who advised him was a dispatcher, who he had no legal obligation to listen to.

2. He never said "fucking coon".

Yeah you are right he didnt say that;
I remember they said he did say that originally,as Lyle said that was the press marking it up to racism.

But Ive just been listening to it all again here this morning, there is a lot more info available now.

Utube has everything now, there is even the full police interview on a polygraph goes for about an hour, from within the police station from on the day of the offense or whatever we have to call it.

[Andre]

I know we should not judge but it seems to me this bloke fancied himself as a police officer type and went for an easy mark.
My bet is he wouldnt have gone down in between those flats if that black guy was larger than him.
Theres alot of questions and many discrepancies of witnesses and his own talk then and now,but in reality he didnt do anything any different than many police officers would do and that is well fucked up in itself.

I was just reading about those cops who shot the shit out of those womens cars thinking it was a different car.
Then when they finally find the right perp he is held up in a house so they burn it down on him and kill him.
With the amount of lead they pumped into those womens cars sort of tells you he was never going to be led to court.

[Beanflicker]

I know we should not judge but it seems to me this bloke fancied himself as a police officer type

Yeah I agree 100%, George Zimmerman seems like a douche, like a rent-a-cop type who takes his position a little too seriously. I don't like the guy, especially after finding out he's a god freak and thinks this whole incident was "god's will".

But I think even a douche deserves justice, and hes been given a raw deal i feel

[El Kabong]

"well a thief doesn't deserve to die for stealing".

That's debatable...I've had my car broken into before, and my house almost broken into (my dog prevented that) and there's nothing like the amount of anger one feels when that happens. You go to work and your home sits empty all day and these lowlife thieves can just pop in and pop out and make a nice amount of cash off of your hard work....FUCK THAT. If someone breaks into your house Shoot them, that is a line you do not cross man.

[Andre]

"well a thief doesn't deserve to die for stealing".

That's debatable...I've had my car broken into before, and my house almost broken into (my dog prevented that) and there's nothing like the amount of anger one feels when that happens. You go to work and your home sits empty all day and these lowlife thieves can just pop in and pop out and make a nice amount of cash off of your hard work....FUCK THAT. If someone breaks into your house Shoot them, that is a line you do not cross man.

I'd delete that in case the police take your computer after the shooting.

While you are at it rub my beach scenario out will ya

[Beanz]

If following an unarmed teenager and then shooting him dead with a gun is in your eyes somehow a mark of being street savvy or following some kind of unwritten rule of "the streets" then I can not say I am at all surprised. If that is your reasoning for apportioning blame, then it puts you firmly in the same gutter with an excuse that cries, total and utter cowardice.

[Beanflicker]

If following an unarmed teenager and then shooting him dead with a gun is in your eyes somehow a mark of being street savvy or following some kind of unwritten rule of "the streets" then I can not say I am at all surprised. If that is your reasoning for apportioning blame, then it puts you firmly in the same gutter with an excuse that cries, total and utter cowardice.

That's an absolute bullshit way of simplifying it. Followed? Well yeah, he's the neighbourhood watch. Unarmed? Why does that matter? If you don't have a gun and the other guy does, does that give you the legal right to smash his head in just because he's annoying you? I guess Zimmerman should have just let the kid continue to smash his head in and risk permanent brain damage or death, because hey, he was just an "unarmed kid", right? Jesus Christ, what kind of world do some of you live in?

And of course people say "well that's just Zimmerman's account. I think Zimmerman started the fight." Yeah? The neighbourhood watch guy, the guy who was calling the police and KNEW they were on their way decided to start a brawl with the taller black guy? A guy who he thought might be a dangerous criminal. REALLY? People actually buy into that logic?

George Zimmerman is a PUSSY. He didn't confront the guy, he never would have had the balls to. He called the police and had the intentions of leaving it up to the professionals. Treyvon was annoyed by it and assaulted him.

Unfortunately, you don't get to assault people because they annoy you. And unfortunately for Treyvon, you don't have to let a guy smash your brains in because he's unarmed and you have a gun.

[Beanflicker]

It's scary concept man, that you can be totally exonerated by the police based on witness testimony, then a bunch of uninformed people who don't have any of the facts can start hooting and hollaring and then suddenly you're blowing through HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars so you don't have to spend the rest of your life in jail.

And that a "legit" news station like NBC would edit your 911 call to make you sound like a racist, just so they could make their story more interesting and generate more ratings.

It's a scary prospect.

[Beanz]

If following an unarmed teenager and then shooting him dead with a gun is in your eyes somehow a mark of being street savvy or following some kind of unwritten rule of "the streets" then I can not say I am at all surprised. If that is your reasoning for apportioning blame, then it puts you firmly in the same gutter with an excuse that cries, total and utter cowardice.

That's an absolute bullshit way of simplifying it. Followed? Well yeah, he's the neighbourhood watch. Unarmed? Why does that matter? If you don't have a gun and the other guy does, does that give you the legal right to smash his head in just because he's annoying you? I guess Zimmerman should have just let the kid continue to smash his head in and risk permanent brain damage or death, because hey, he was just an "unarmed kid", right? Jesus Christ, what kind of world do some of you live in?

And of course people say "well that's just Zimmerman's account. I think Zimmerman started the fight." Yeah? The neighbourhood watch guy, the guy who was calling the police and KNEW they were on their way decided to start a brawl with the taller black guy? A guy who he thought might be a dangerous criminal. REALLY? People actually buy into that logic?

George Zimmerman is a PUSSY. He didn't confront the guy, he never would have had the balls to. He called the police and had the intentions of leaving it up to the professionals. Treyvon was annoyed by it and assaulted him.

Unfortunately, you don't get to assault people because they annoy you. And unfortunately for Treyvon, you don't have to let a guy smash your brains in because he's unarmed and you have a gun.

Firstly. I was replying TO VD whose post appeared above mine in which he said



"Zimmerman had the gun. Trayvon did not. Laws of the streets clearly state you don't bring knives to a gun fight and you most certainly don't bring fists to a gun fight. Trayvon did not follow the rules. Zimmerman did. Zimmerman won the fight. Therefore Zimmerman is in the right and what he says is true"

"He doesn't have to. Rules are rules. He followed them The boy didn't. That's why he's still living and the boy is pushing up daisies. "



If you think my response was a bullshit oversimplification then maybe a little context would have helped.

Back to your points

"Followed? Well yeah, he's the neighbourhood watch. Unarmed? Why does that matter?"

Being a neighbourhood watch VOLUNTEER gives you absolutely no right to follow whatsoever. The person who answered the dispatch call despite your claim that he had no authority, actually would have undergone specific training and had a wealth of valuable experience compared to Zimmerman and his advice not to pursue should have been heeded. The fact that Martin was unarmed meant that the person pursuing him was not threatened and was himself seeking a confrontation, so yes it does matter.

"If you don't have a gun and the other guy does, does that give you the legal right to smash his head in just because he's annoying you?"

People who have their heads smashed in generally suffer at least a mild concussion. Zimmerman was found not to have by his own doctor. Zimmerman refused further medical help for his wounds which did not require stitches and are inconsistent with the type of repeated blows he claims he received. Zimmerman was by his own admission following somebody who had every right to be where they were, which was not on Zimmermans property. You are claiming that Martin smashed Zimmermans head in because that is what the suspect in a trial is telling you. We do not have the luxury of hearing the other side of the story.

"I guess Zimmerman should have just let the kid continue to smash his head in and risk permanent brain damage or death, because hey, he was just an "unarmed kid", right? Jesus Christ, what kind of world do some of you live in?"

Turn this on it's head and put yourself in the place of Martin. You are confronted by some guy who has been following you in a car and who then pursues you on foot after you attempt to run away. Should you just stand there and let him reach for his weapon ?

"....I think Zimmerman started the fight." Yeah? The neighbourhood watch guy, the guy who was calling the police and KNEW they were on their way decided to start a brawl with the taller black guy? A guy who he thought might be a dangerous criminal. REALLY? People actually buy into that logic? "

Zimmerman was a member of an MA gym. Zimmerman being shorter than an unarmed teenager he was following proves nothing. Martin if anything looks skinny or does him being black mean he looks like a dangerous criminal?

"He called the police and had the intentions of leaving it up to the professionals. Treyvon was annoyed by it and assaulted him."

You may like to believe that but Zimmerman obviously had no intention of leaving it to the professionals because the vastly more experienced dispatch caller who advised him not to pursue was ignored. You have no evidence that Martin was annoyed rather than scared himself, and you are making a huge jump to assume that the younger unarmed pursued guy was the one who initiated an assault.

"Unfortunately, you don't get to assault people because they annoy you. And unfortunately for Treyvon, you don't have to let a guy smash your brains in because he's unarmed and you have a gun."

Unfortunately you don't get to confront unarmed people when you do not work in law enforcement. Just because you make some rash judgement that they belong to a group who you think, "always gets away". A broken nose does not constitute having your brains smashed in.