03 Wladimir Klitchksco VS Joe Frazier

[Master]

You really are an imbecile. Your arguments do demean great champions because you call Shavers a midget, Ali a punching bag, etc yet Wilder, Grant and your other new modern super heavyweights have done sweet FA.

[Max Power]

Yeah well I think Michael Grant would have been undisputed champion in the Golden Era for as long as he liked but again, we'll never know will we for certain.

I just wonder who you guys would REALLY back had they been in the same era. Would you put your money on Shaver's?

I kinda seriously doubt that.

Show me a HW the calibre of Michael Grant from that era?

[bradlee180]

Yeah well I think Michael Grant would have been undisputed champion in the Golden Era for as long as he liked but again, we'll never know will we for certain.
I just wonder who you guys would REALLY back had they been in the same era. Would you put your money on Shaver's?
Show me a HW the calibre of Michael Grant from that era?

AHAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH !!!!!!!!!!!






A good belly-laugh, a good belly-laugh, good for the soul, good for the soul !!!

[FinitoElDinamita]

I cant think of another giant like Grant in early 1900s with such fluidity... that's all I can say..

What, Jesse Willard and Primo Carnera? Lol fuckin big stiff bums..

[bradlee180]

Big Jess Willard was about 100 times tougher than Michael Grant, and with better endurance to boot...


EDIT:
...and Willard whupped Jack Johnson's @$$, who routinely makes the Best Champs of All-Time list.

...and modern Champ Vitali Klitschko is the same height, weight as Willard and has exactly the same style.

[Max Power]

Grant would face dangerous comp from Foreman maybe.

He would have destroyed handily Johnson and Willard and Carnera, Baer and Simon no doubt and I'd be surprised if any of them managed to land a single meaningful punch against Vitali Klitschko!

Grant was no technical genius by a long shot but he was way beyond a foolish and derogatory comparison as that!

[Max Power]

As for the comparison with Vitali...

Now come on, that's a laugh!

What a fucking joke! lol

And Jack Johnson -BEST CHAMPS OF ALL TIME! LOL Give me a break you imbecile!

[FinitoElDinamita]

As for the comparison with Vitali...

Now come on, that's a laugh!

What a fucking joke! lol

And Jack Johnson -BEST CHAMPS OF ALL TIME! LOL Give me a break you imbecile!

Whitaker got me all heated but Bradley's Jack Johnson line made me laugh again. Lol

Bradley cmon dude.. u know those ATG lists made by Bert Sugar and his generation needs to get updated..

[bradlee180]

Jess Willard:





Vitali Klitschko:




Vitali is a carbon-copy, for $#!t's sake !!!

[bradlee180]

A prime Mike Tyson's style was like a prime Jack Dempsey's style.

Not only in style and ferociousness, Tyson emulated Dempsey's look.

[Max Power]

Yeah Klitschko and Tyson resemble their predecessors significantly.

Except Vitali and Tyson were so much better at it skillfully and so much more athletic that is beyond laughable that you think of them as anywhere near equals.

Vitali would destroy either Willard or Johnson as if they were weaker sparring partners and Tyson would knock out Dempsey faster than Marvis Fraizer could call for help!

I can go around imitating the dropped hand lean back style of Vitali too and rely on my judge of distance, timing and snap of my long strong arms to bludgeon my opponents. Were I a solid little short ass instead, I could put my gloves together in front of me and bob, weave and roll under my opponents punches and pop up with flash shots and my best sharpest combinations.

Would I be as good as Tyson or Vitali at it?

No, I would probably get destroyed because I'm simply not as good as they are! They have better skills and better conditioning and have greater experience against top opposition that I could never achieve.

There's ya difference Bradlee!

Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey, my gosh, just when I thought the buck stopped with Joe Louis, now he seriously have to entertain the thought that fighters from nothing less that a HUNDRED YEARS ago are comparable to modern boxers!

You can't REALLY believe that mate! It defies the laws of the universe! lol

[Spicoli]

That's just it though @Master, Shaver's opposition was NOT on the level of Deontay Wilder's! Wilder may cop crap for being bums etc, but his opponents are all genuine HW's for which he has a KO ratio of 100% and Shavers only 60.

What's more the records of Wilder's opponents are MUCH better than the opponents of Shaver's, check if you don't believe me.

Shaver's did not drop Ali, he hit him full power and he did not drop! Holmes dropped but got up to win.

By contrast, Chagaev hit Wladimir full power but failed to drop him, does that much Chag the hardest hitter? Peter dropped Wlad but still lost, does that make Peter the hardest hitter?

The only decent opponent he did KO was Norton and Norton did NOT have a good chin by anybodys standards!

I wonder what would happen if Holmes or Ali has to withstand a power shot from Wilder instead of Shaver's?? That would be interesting. I know which one I'd rather stand in front of!!

See the article "Are bums of the Klitschko era better than top fighters of Ali's era?" For a detailed look at the striking quality difference between the eras competition. Boxer 2010 is Deontay Wilder, Boxer 1970 is I believe Ken Norton.

Now that's just embarrassing.

And yet I see a lot of abuse once again but no serious counter argument.

You try and tell me that some midget underweight tomato can like Shaver's can hit harder than modern day power punchers you must be his great nephew or something!! I don't want to disrespect Shaver's here but what did he really do to earn this reputation? F/A!!!!!!!!

Its the Wilder facing genuine heavy's that damn near had me needing a change of shorts bud. I stopped counting but Wilder has a UPS truck full of recent Lt heavys and losing cruisers that were set ups for him. Have you actually watched those fights. Say what you want about Shavers but to try to legitimize Wilder simply on the grounds of being built on tomato cans with a newer label is short bus. At the end of the day ko numbers don't mean squat if they are pre determined and fully expected. Doesn't matter what era you fly your flag in.

[Max Power]

Yeah I am not trying to claim here that Wilder faced good quality opposition, that's obviously not the case but compared to Shaver's...

Shavers... Faced ACTUAL sub200 opponents at bout time to build up his KO profile..
Wilder... Faced nothing less than 200+ opponents at bout time (he was not ALLOWED to KO anything less! And we all know what would happen if Wilder was unleashed on the CW division. He would knock every single one of them straight out!

Shaver's.. The average record of his opponents was significantly poorer than that of the average record of Wilder's opponents. True numerical fact!

Couple this with his obvious physical advantages and imo sharper tools and much better strength and conditioning and the question should really be reversed..

How the HELL could Shaver's ever hope to competed with Wilder in either a punch power contest, OR a boxing match?

[FinitoElDinamita]

FFS u guys let's talk some sense we are talking about Shavers who is 6"0 ok man, 6"0, 6"0, we are talking about 6"0.. we talking about practice man, practice, got it practice.. we arent talkijg about 6"7 modern Superheavy, we talkin about 6"0, ok 6"0 ffs..

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM

[Spicoli]

Name me the clean legit heavyweight punch Wilder has sponged in 31 professional fights It doesn't matter two shits what you weigh 'at the bell' if you're a chubby chump with little skill and even less realistic chance of winning. Marlon Hayes, DeAndry Abron, McCreary, etc. dudes might have well been stuffing 20 lbs of meatloaf and hotdogs in their pockets to make a payday.