Wladimir plans to box for 10 more years to break Joe louis' record

[Mr140]

How can he be when does not face the best man that was in his era just can not deal with that. I was talking about his wbo before getting wasted by Sanders not meaning much. His Brother coming back fucked up his title reign because he was not fight the best guy in the division.

[Max Power]

Well actually it did mean a lot if you ask me. At that time ppl considered Wladimir the better brother (even though I think it was Vitali). And they also considered Wladimir the top dog in the division. WBO or not, THAT was the established champion in most ppl's heads. The Vitali/Lewis fight, The Sanders/Wladimir fight and the subsequent Sanders/Vitali fight let Wlad down but that's retroactive thinking.

You cannot just decide that based on what happened later that Wlad's championship wins as WBO champ then don't count. It did then!

[Mr140]

He was not the top guy though Lewis was he picked up a trinket big deal then went on lose to Sanders and Brewster after words. Now in his comeback he then was consdier the man and yea now his titles mean something when defending them. Unfortunately his brother shows up and now its fucked again you know why because they won't fight. So tell me who in the histroy of boxing that is in the top ten list did not fight the best possible guys they could. I know love the Brothers they are great and all but them being combined champions is going to hurt them more then help because then won't ever fight.

[Mr140]

So i think i am pretty much right when saying that Lewis was the best so Wald defending a wbo belt was kinda just meh means nothing really. Also you can not argue with ranking a man when he did not fight the best person in his era with is his Brother kinda fucked it up for him really.

[Max Power]

Yeah ok I guess I did not think that one through did I lol, Lewis was the top guy at the time you are right.

I'd still not knock Wlad's WBO belt defences off the list myself. I consider picking up any major title and defending it legitimate.

Otherwise you have to do the same for all other boxers who've been in that situation of not holding all the belts and no I don't single out the WBO either as not being major.

That Wladimir and Vitali didn't fight I can pass, they are brothers, they can't help that, that shouldn't preclude them from boxing greatness. They each fought their fair share of the toughest opponents on the planet, that's what counts for me.

Sure you'll point to collaboration etc playing up to each others strengths in opponent selection but really over a whole career that's not really possible, they both had mandatories.

If you want to set Wladimir back several fights from Louis over the earlier WBO defences go ahead but to me they are as legitimate as Lewis's first WBC belt and defences he was gifted by Bowe.

[Mr140]

All i am going to say is that when Louis, Ali, and Holmes were champs they were seen as the champs. Wald was not champ or seen as one in the first run. After the Bryde rematch and Samuel Peters fight he was then the man. Then his brother comes back he is not really the man anymore because he is not fighting the best guy in his era. Say what you want about weight and all but at least the guys in the top ten fought the best there was Wald has not regardless has to be down graded for it. Holyfeild has a few loses but he fought fucking every one and most of his loses were after his 40's, Tyson fought everyone, and Lewis fought everyone and avenged his loses, but the brothers split there shit up and never fought one another they kinda fucked up. Shit most people consider them the same person hard to judge if they never fight its a big problem dude.

[Max Power]

Alright I'm going to give this to you, those past champions were considered "the champ" in their title fights or straight away thereafter (i.e. Ali vs Foreman etc). Whereas Wladimir was for instance not considered the top dog for earlier defences.

I guess there will be many different levels of what the set record is.

I think "performance in world title fights" as I refer to is applicable, you see further criteria that penalises many boxers but particularly the brothers. This is exactly what I was referring to at the start of this thread, the closer Wlad gets to the record, the further detractors will attempt to push the boundary out.

Well I have a cherry picked statistic of my own too, one that I feel is more relevant than all others.

Performance in 200+ World title fights.. What we would TODAY consider HW!

It's then clear that no matter how you spin it, Wladimir tops with Louis a distant 7th place!

What do you think of that record!