American confederate flag

[IamInuit]

Seems odd to me that it took an act of brutal murder to give that flag its exit papers. Claiming it as some southern cross is like hanging a Nazi flag in a state in Israel and claiming its a symbol of National Socialism.

For the Hindus and Buddhists in India and other Asian countries, the swastika was an important symbol for many thousands of years and, to this day, the symbol can still be seen in abundance - on temples, buses, taxis, and on the cover of books. It was also used in Ancient Greece and can be found in the remains of the ancient city of Troy, which existed 4,000 years ago. The ancient Druids and the Celts also used the symbol, reflected in many artifacts that have been discovered. It was used by Nordic tribes and even early Christians used the Swastika as one of their symbols, including the Teutonic Knights, a German medieval military order, which became a purely religious Catholic Order.

Even with that history, you dont see neighbourhoods at least in the Western world dawning that symbol outside of the nutbar skinheads and white supremacists.

Oddly, it was a Christian church in his home town where Hitler first saw the symbol which would come to be called the swastika. It is still there today.

They dont parade it. That confederate flag represents the same thing as the Nazi flag minus the ovens.

[El Kabong]

Seems odd to me that it took an act of brutal murder to give that flag its exit papers. Claiming it as some southern cross is like hanging a Nazi flag in a state in Israel and claiming its a symbol of National Socialism.

For the Hindus and Buddhists in India and other Asian countries, the swastika was an important symbol for many thousands of years and, to this day, the symbol can still be seen in abundance - on temples, buses, taxis, and on the cover of books. It was also used in Ancient Greece and can be found in the remains of the ancient city of Troy, which existed 4,000 years ago. The ancient Druids and the Celts also used the symbol, reflected in many artifacts that have been discovered. It was used by Nordic tribes and even early Christians used the Swastika as one of their symbols, including the Teutonic Knights, a German medieval military order, which became a purely religious Catholic Order.

Even with that history, you dont see neighbourhoods at least in the Western world dawning that symbol outside of the nutbar skinheads and white supremacists.

Oddly, it was a Christian church in his home town where Hitler first saw the symbol which would come to be called the swastika. It is still there today.

They dont parade it. That confederate flag represents the same thing as the Nazi flag minus the ovens.

Alright then present the case for that line of thought. How is the Battle flag of Northern Virginia like the Swastika only minus the ovens?

[walrus]

No doubt the flag has negative connotations. George Wallace brought back into style in his state. I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. When I see the flag I don't relate it at all to slavery or opression, again, that's just my take. The southern hicks I know who have the battle flag on their car do it to show their rebel anti government spirit. Still, perhaps flying it over a state capital is not appropriate. I encourage anyone able to visit the Gettysburg national park. It's an absolutely amazing place.

[El Kabong]

Rebel: a person who rises in opposition or armed resistance against an established government or ruler.

But also


(of a person) resist authority, control, or convention.
show or feel repugnance for or resistance to something


So by definition the "Rebel Flag" as it were, could be seen as anti-establishment, counter culture, etc. which was the case when Billy Idol was rocking it.



The Dukes of Hazzard, they were anti-establishment/anti-Boss Hog and corrupt Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane......but nah we can't have that see...we must comply

....that was in the 70's and 80's where people were using that flag as a political statement to be against the status quo.

[SlimTrae]

I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. .

What is your take on how or why the Confederate lost? Feel free to educate me- as I am going from vague memory of what I thought to be the truth: The confederates were whipping the Yankees every which a way- so it was a blockade? The stopping of ships or fuel/sustenance that bled them out of resources? Meaning the Northerners never really beat them hand to hand combat wise?

[walrus]

I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. .

What is your take on how or why the Confederate lost? Feel free to educate me- as I am going from vague memory of what I thought to be the truth: The confederates were whipping the Yankees every which a way- so it was a blockade? The stopping of ships or fuel/sustenance that bled them out of resources? Meaning the Northerners never really beat them hand to hand combat wise?

I think a major part of it was Northern industrial might. The confederate had a handful of companies producing canon etc while the north could crank them out. The north ran the railroads and as the war raged on could continue to build the army. Yes, Lincoln put a blockade around the entire south, he had a name for it which I forget now. Grant got a lot of bad press through the years but he was actually a very good General, who did as much as he could to protect his troops as opposed to what you hear these days that he just overwhelmed the south with human waves, not giving a Shit how many men died. So like many wars it's hard to point to just one thing although I have a feeling you have an ace up your sleeve your going to whip out. I'm not really the one you want to teach you, I've read and watched documentaries about the Civil War, it always fascinated me, the amount of death and carnage is stupifying. The north was very cavalier at the beginning thinking they would whoop Johny Reb in less than a year. Anyway, I've only read and watched what is already out there. I've done no research although I do have a family member who received the medal of honor at Gettysburg. Believe it or not he just received it two or three years ago from your man Obama. Look up the name Alonzo Cushing. I do have a spent round from the battlefield. But if you are looking for the inside scoop I can't give you that.

[SlimTrae]

I guess my take is very much influenced by me being a civil war buff. War wise, Robert E Lee was a brilliant tactician.. Stone wall Jackson, another great mind. .

What is your take on how or why the Confederate lost? Feel free to educate me- as I am going from vague memory of what I thought to be the truth: The confederates were whipping the Yankees every which a way- so it was a blockade? The stopping of ships or fuel/sustenance that bled them out of resources? Meaning the Northerners never really beat them hand to hand combat wise?

I think a major part of it was Northern industrial might. The confederate had a handful of companies producing canon etc while the north could crank them out. The north ran the railroads and as the war raged on could continue to build the army. Yes, Lincoln put a blockade around the entire south, he had a name for it which I forget now. Grant got a lot of bad press through the years but he was actually a very good General, who did as much as he could to protect his troops as opposed to what you hear these days that he just overwhelmed the south with human waves, not giving a Shit how many men died. So like many wars it's hard to point to just one thing although I have a feeling you have an ace up your sleeve your going to whip out. I'm not really the one you want to teach you, I've read and watched documentaries about the Civil War, it always fascinated me, the amount of death and carnage is stupifying. The north was very cavalier at the beginning thinking they would whoop Johny Reb in less than a year. Anyway, I've only read and watched what is already out there. I've done no research although I do have a family member who received the medal of honor at Gettysburg. Believe it or not he just received it two or three years ago from your man Obama. Look up the name Alonzo Cushing. I do have a spent round from the battlefield. But if you are looking for the inside scoop I can't give you that.

My Opinion or perspective: Documentaries are the best way to learn.

The internet is the great equalizer- in other words for every topic: the net has the truth both ways.

Too easy to get a link that is leaning, skewed, partial truth/lies. So i'd cling to someone who has taken the time because they enjoy said subject as opposed to a blind search on the net that takes me to thetruth.org

[SlimTrae]

Wow, I was JK..there really is a link called truth . org LOL!

[El Kabong]

....the question wasn't addressed to me, but in my opinion the Confederates lost for any number of reasons: defeat at Gettysburg and not being able to take advantage of the draft riots in New York, the North was newly industrialized and thereby all the better supplied with guns, artillery, and railroads to move goods and troops, the death of Stonewall Jackson certainly did not help, the French losing at the Battle of Puebla (celebrated famously as Cinco De Mayo) as the French were on the verge of further helping the Confederate States while England was still being wishy washy in terms of who they wished to be the victors, but having the backing of an established nation to provide rifles, artillery, and men would have gone a long ways to evening the odds.





As for your response to my previous post, you can view the videos or not, I am not playing some sort of game and just being contrarian for the hell of it. I too am asking questions, I too am searching for answers for what is "correct"....some say the flag stands for: hate, white supremacy, etc......some say it doesn't and like it or not their opinions are valid. H.K. Edgerton whom you refer to as a "black hating negro" was actually the President of the Asheville NAACP at one point in time. Don't know why you'd call him a "black hating negro" as he seems not to hate anyone at all....but if you feel that is the truth then it must be.


But I understand full well that these days emotions are more important than facts. Did blacks fight for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter because it's an ugly thought that they would have so obviously it didn't happen and if by chance it DID happen, then we ought not teach about it as it will only serve to confuse people. Were black patriotic for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter, it's an ugly thought so it obviously didn't happen, and if it did we shouldn't teach it. Did blacks own slaves? Doesn't matter it's an ugly thought and if it did happen we shouldn't teach it.


Emotions > Facts

[SlimTrae]

....the question wasn't addressed to me, but in my opinion the Confederates lost for any number of reasons: defeat at Gettysburg and not being able to take advantage of the draft riots in New York, the North was newly industrialized and thereby all the better supplied with guns, artillery, and railroads to move goods and troops, the death of Stonewall Jackson certainly did not help, the French losing at the Battle of Puebla (celebrated famously as Cinco De Mayo) as the French were on the verge of further helping the Confederate States while England was still being wishy washy in terms of who they wished to be the victors, but having the backing of an established nation to provide rifles, artillery, and men would have gone a long ways to evening the odds.


Good stuff!


As for your response to my previous post, you can view the videos or not, I am not playing some sort of game and just being contrarian for the hell of it. I too am asking questions, I too am searching for answers for what is "correct"....some say the flag stands for: hate, white supremacy, etc......some say it doesn't and like it or not their opinions are valid. H.K. Edgerton whom you refer to as a "black hating negro" was actually the President of the Asheville NAACP at one point in time. Don't know why you'd call him a "black hating negro" as he seems not to hate anyone at all....but if you feel that is the truth then it must be.

Yup its the truth! JK.

But I understand full well that these days emotions are more important than facts. Did blacks fight for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter because it's an ugly thought that they would have so obviously it didn't happen and if by chance it DID happen, then we ought not teach about it as it will only serve to confuse people. Were black patriotic for the Confederacy? Doesn't matter, it's an ugly thought so it obviously didn't happen, and if it did we shouldn't teach it. Did blacks own slaves? Doesn't matter it's an ugly thought and if it did happen we shouldn't teach it.


Emotions > Facts

Hey like the old saying goes: politics and religion are the two subjects that rile us up!

[walrus]

Sorry to interrupt but regarding Gettysburg Lincoln was actually pissed after the battle. He felt the Union could have wiped out the south right then but Meade (I think it was Meade) didn't pursue the feds back into the south. Lincoln thoughts did make sense, the rebs were beat and on the run, Lee was sick, Stonewall Jackson was dead, the rebs were in union territory but after that bloody mess at Gettysburg I can see why Meade didn't give Chase. And actually slim, I only watched the middle video El Kabonghead posted thus far but I have to say it is done well.