Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.

[Deanrw]

Again southakron cant debate he just throws out neg rep and "fuck off Euro trash"

Why is he here someone get rid of this idiot.

Well you incite people also. Calling fighters BUMS as well as other names. You and I had our own falling out in the past. He is not the only one guilty of it. People can be passionate over their favorite boxers, so insulting another one will almost always lead to a fight.

Calzaghe has fought bums Jones has fought bums.

Do you agree?

Now when a fighter gets knocked down by a bum how should i phrase it?

Listen i would never call an elite fighter a bum or a can and i have never slagged Pavlik off i put what i think on the table wanting a good debate it hypes fights makes them more enjoyable. Then you get this tool and that Demise just neg repping and slagging off every comment they dont agree with.

Argue, state your case dont just throw out aimless hate.

If i posted "Calzaghe is crap feather fisted bum basher" id get 10,00k good rep but if i put "I think Calzaghe will whoop Pavlik" you get a ton of neg rep.

I don't call any fighter a bum. I will say that they have all faced some weak opposition.

Would you call Gary Lockett a bum? I mean he went farther in his career than most fighters dream of. Was he strong opposition for Pavlik? No he wasn't. The guy is no bum though. It is a very bad term to use.

Yes Cal gets called Calslappy and Pavlik gets called Slow and One Dimensional. That is normal boxing fan behavior. Calling either a bum though is simply wrong IMO and insulting to not only the fighters, but the fans and the sport.

[C-Lo]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

The difference to me is that Calzaghe's been around a lot longer. Joe had chances to fight much better fighters in the 90's even early 2000s but he didn't. I know there may have been a case of Calzaghe wasn't a big name yet so why would Hopkins and Jones fight him. Still, he could've started something but it didn't happen. He's now fighting these guys after their time in the spotlight which is hard to give him full credit for.

Pavlik on the other hand is still 25, 26 years old and he's already trying to fight the best out there. He's not wasting any time and is accomodating his opponent's desired weight just to make the fight and not ducking anyone. This is why he's grabbing a lot of people's respect.

It would a great fight between the two of them. ABSOLUTELY a pick 'em! As someone said before, Pavlik has the tools to stop and hurt Joe but will Joe let him?

PLUS! Like I said before, Roy Jones isn't exactly a tune-up and Calzaghe WILL have his hands full.

[Markusdarkus]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

The difference to me is that Calzaghe's been around a lot longer. Joe had chances to fight much better fighters in the 90's even early 2000s but he didn't. I know there may have been a case of Calzaghe wasn't a big name yet so why would Hopkins and Jones fight him. Still, he could've started something but it didn't happen. He's now fighting these guys after their time in the spotlight which is hard to give him full credit for.

Pavlik on the other hand is still 25, 26 years old and he's already trying to fight the best out there. He's not wasting any time and is accomodating his opponent's desired weight just to make the fight and not ducking anyone. This is why he's grabbing a lot of people's respect.

It would a great fight between the two of them. ABSOLUTELY a pick 'em! As someone said before, Pavlik has the tools to stop and hurt Joe but will Joe let him?

PLUS! Like I said before, Roy Jones isn't exactly a tune-up and Calzaghe WILL have his hands full.

Im sorry you dont see much difference in Calzaghe and Pavliks opposition?

I find that baffling to say the least....

List common (in kind) opponents.

[Fenster]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

[Bomp]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

Good point. Calzaghe's fought over a dozen Zertuche type oppoenents plus the guys you mentioned before going on to Lacy-Kessler-Hopkins. All the guys you mentoined plus these 3 (that's 8 ) achieved a hell of a lot more in their careers than Miranda, that leaves just Taylor as a class opponent, so no, Pavlik hasn't got the same resume as Joe, as of now anyway.

by the way to the Pavlik fans, not dissing him, just defending Joe, Kelly's a very good fighter who may prove to be a great one day if he keeps progressing, his fights are also great to watch. If they fought now I'd actually favour Pavlik slightly, but only because Joe has been slipping gradually for a good few years but it's only really catching up with him now, +IMO he's gonna struggle with Jones.

[ssss]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

[Fenster]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level........

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

[Fenster]

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

[Bomp]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, if JC and Pavlik fight, if Pavlik wins will you be saying that Calzaghe was on the downslide?? especially considering those guys were a good few years younger than what Joe would be should he fight Kelly in early 2009. Also considering Kelly's next opponent and that Taylor could be argued to have slipped (rested on his laurels) after winning the title, what does that leave Kelly with??

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, if JC and Pavlik fight, if Pavlik wins will you be saying that Calzaghe was on the downslide?? especially considering those guys were a good few years younger than what Joe would be should he fight Kelly in early 2009. Also considering Kelly's next opponent and that Taylor could be argued to have slipped (rested on his laurels) after winning the title, what does that leave Kelly with??

If Pavlik Wins Will You Be Saying That Calzaghe Was On The Downslide

Good question i would say Joe Calzaghe is for certain at the point where he is starting to slip somewhat but its hard to tell because he had great performance against Mikkel Kessler then had bad showing against Bernard Hopkins but Bernard Hopkins makes everyone look bad.........

But i would say Kelly Pavlik didn't beat a prime Joe Calzaghe if he did indeed win.

[Markusdarkus]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?

I think you misunderstood what i meant i didn't say they were past there prime but experts at that time did consider both fighters to be on the downslide of there career......

Because Robin Reid had looked rubbish losing to a 42 years old Thulani Malinga yes Robin Reid did go on to have some decent performances after the Joe Calzaghe fight but at the time he fought Joe Calzaghe he was considered on the downslide of his career and Byron Mitchell was also coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and the fact that he didn't fight again for another 4 years when he lost by TKO in an 8 round bout to Richard Hall proves my point.

[Markusdarkus]

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

How on earth were Reid and Mitchel past their best?

I think you misunderstood what i meant i didn't say they were past there prime but experts at that time did consider both fighters to be on the downslide of there career......

Because Robin Reid had looked rubbish losing to a 42 years old Thulani Malinga yes Robin Reid did go on to have some decent performances after the Joe Calzaghe fight but at the time he fought Joe Calzaghe he was considered on the downslide of his career and Byron Mitchell was also coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and the fact that he didn't fight again for another 4 years when he lost by TKO in an 8 round bout to Richard Hall proves my point.

Mitchel was coming off his career best display by beating Sven Ottke.

[Violent Demise]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

Uh they were all title holders. Not world champions. Far from it. Just look how they got there titles. Charles Brewer won his vacant IBF title by beating non-champion Gary Ballard (). Robin Reid crushed The Italian Stallion Vincenzo Nardiello to become WBC champ (). Richie Woodhall had to go 12 against the 10 loss having ancient Thulani Malinga to get his WBC title (). Who took it from Robin Ried. () Byron Mitchell I do give credit to. He beat the underrated Frankie Liles to become champion. But by the time he fought Calzaghe he was coming off a loss to Sven Ottke and had gone life and death against Manny Siaca and Julio Cesar Green. I don't even acknowledge the WBO. There you go. Keep calling Brewer, Reid and Woodhall former world champions if you want. Anything to make Calzaghe look better.