Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level........

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

[Fenster]

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

[ssss]

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

[Fenster]

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

That was the "debate" though. You must have not understood, not to worry

I agree it's unfair/silly to compare them at this stage.

Pavlik will QUICKLY become a chump once he's been KO'd a few times.. which in all honesty, is far more likely than him becoming a long reigning champ - like Calzaghe

[Markusdarkus]

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

Taylor could have dropped decisions against Spinks and Ouma not forgetting the gift draw with Wright. Hopkins was made for Taylor he finally met a fighter even more negative and had to force the fight Hopkins is purely a backfoot fighter.

Style wise Taylor had his number. And im not sure getting punched all over the ring in the first fight and a razor thin dec in the rematch are as good as Calzaghes best wins.

[ssss]

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?

I never said they compare with Joe Calzaghe's opposition what i said is that Kelly Pavlik's wins over Jermain Taylor is probably better than any single win on Joe Calzaghe's resume.........

Its unfair to compare them at the moment because Kelly Pavlik is a new comer and has only recently won world title where as Joe Calzaghe has been champion for 11 years its just a silly comparison.......

But i will bet you this that when Kelly Pavlik finishes his career i think he will have better overall wins than Joe Calzaghe but we will have to wait and see if Kelly Pavlik can handle the big boys at the higher weight classes...........

Taylor could have dropped decisions against Spinks and Ouma not forgetting the gift draw with Wright. Hopkins was made for Taylor he finally met a fighter even more negative and had to force the fight Hopkins is purely a backfoot fighter.

Style wise Taylor had his number. And im not sure getting punched all over the ring in the first fight and a razor thin dec in the rematch are as good as Calzaghes best wins.

Could have dropped a decision to Kassim Ouma you are kidding right ? Jermain Taylor didn't look impressive but he clearly won the fight end of and no way was that fight controversial.........

All Cory Spinks did was run all night and he makes pretty much everyone look bad and as for Winky Wright is there any shame in having a draw against Winky Wright ?

Considering Bernard Hopkins looked even worse against a flabby Winky Wright and had to grab and cheat his way to a controversial decision over a flabby Winky Wright who was moving up 2 weight classes.