Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac

[AdamGB]

25 pounds in 7 years or 38 in 14 years isn't exactly a great deal of weight for a human to gain...

It's worth noting that those weights won't have been actual weights either but dehydrated weights... ODLH would of had to have dry up a lot more to reach light weight than he would to reach welterweight for example... so really we should be looking more at the weights they walked around at... not fought at.

Weight gain? You eat more calories than you expend... pretty simple really... steroids aren't what makes a person gain weight... they help to stop your body breaking down during intense training but that's it... You'll see guys gaining 25 pounds in a few months of training if they're into hypertrophy, so I think that comparing two fighters and the handful of pounds they gained over DECADES doesn't prove or disprove jackshit... real psuedo-science.

Every body's metabolism is set up different for a start.

But really weight isn't an issue... performance, more specifically rapid improvements in performance are.

Weight gain over decades shouldn't really raise any suspicions of steroid abuse...
Now, being in the public eye, refusing to take the most fail-safe drug test out there and then floundering around, contradicting yourself and coming up with every excuse under the sun - that might raise a few eyebrows

[Master]

ODH is tall and rangy so can up the weight easier, like Hearns.

[AdamGB]

^hahaha, straight to the point... unlike my rant!

Yes, I should also mention that ODLH being 5 foot 11 might have something to do with it...

Sometimes it's not a case of a fighter forcing their weight up... it's just that they've stopped forcing their weight down.

[Jody Lane]

^hahaha, straight to the point... unlike my rant!

Yes, I should also mention that ODLH being 5 foot 11 might have something to do with it...

Sometimes it's not a case of a fighter forcing their weight up... it's just that they've stopped forcing their weight down.

I agree with all that. I was going to mention something about Arturo Gatti fighting at 140 but coming in figh night at 151. As far as the not wanting to take the tests, if someone called me a cheater with no basis or evidence other than I moved up in weight, I might tell them to take a hike. Then again for 40 million other reasons I'd take the damn test and try to beat the shit out of them.

[Lance Uppercut]

"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."

From Thomas Hauser

[Lance Uppercut]

Hauser also noted this about Evander Holyfield and steroids:

"On August 29, 2006, federal Drug Enforcement Agency officials in Alabama raided a compounding pharmacy (a pharmacy that makes its own drugs generically) called Applied Pharmacy Services. Among the documents seized were records stating that, in June 2004, a patient named “Evan Fields” picked up three vials of testosterone and related injection supplies from a doctor in Columbus, Georgia. That same month, Fields received five vials of Saizen (a human growth hormone). In September 2004, according to the documents, Fields underwent treatment for hypogonadism (a condition that results when the sex glands produce little or no hormones). The date of birth, home address, and telephone number listed for Evan Fields in Applied Pharmacy’s records were identical to those of Evander Holyfield.

The New York Times reported in 1995 that, after Holyfield lost his heavyweight championship to Michael Moorer, Evander was diagnosed as having a non-compliant left ventricle (one of four chambers in the human heart), which caused a dangerous build-up of fluids. That diagnosis, according to the Times, was confirmed by two sets of tests, the second round being conducted at Emory University in Atlanta.

Holyfield was tested a number of times for steroids in Nevada. The tests all came back negative. He was not tested by the Nevada commission for human growth hormone or EPO.

[Jody Lane]

"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."

From Thomas Hauser

Thanks Lance for the good point

[Kirkland Laing]

"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."

From Thomas Hauser

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

[Fenster]

"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."

From Thomas Hauser

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

That can be explained by their styles - Pac is a non-stop attack merchant, Floyd is defensive minded.

[blegit]

"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."

From Thomas Hauser

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

Same thing with De la Hoya. At 130 and 135 Oscar was KO'ing everybody having about a 90% KO rate. From 140 on he was having trouble KOing (about a 50% rate) and even was barely winning along with his losses.

[miron_lang]

Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.

Because Pac is just that good.

Simultaneously ruling 126, 135 and 147 is more astonishing but somebody has done it before.


IF he's bloating in betweein fights training 2 hrs per day and drinking as opten as he want then we might wonder...but he's not. He trains like an animal way way beyond normal compared to other fighters.


There's a logical explanation on why he's performing this way and its not based on speculation.

Al Bernstein recently wrote. “Manny Pacquiao is one of the hardest working and most disciplined fighters in the sport. Manny Pacquiao’s success as he moved up in weight has been fueled mostly by a change in style and tactics rather than added strength. One of the most astonishing things to me is the folks who somehow believe that all of a sudden it’s reasonable to assume that Pacquiao, above all other boxers, needs a special set of testing rules to participate in a big fight. No performance enhancing drugs can change your technique. It was not power that made the difference. The difference was speed, ring generalship, combination punching, and a vastly improved defense.”

-From Thomas Hauser article

[Myk_Myk]

^hahaha, straight to the point... unlike my rant!

Yes, I should also mention that ODLH being 5 foot 11 might have something to do with it...

Sometimes it's not a case of a fighter forcing their weight up... it's just that they've stopped forcing their weight down.

I agree with all that. I was going to mention something about Arturo Gatti fighting at 140 but coming in figh night at 151. As far as the not wanting to take the tests, if someone called me a cheater with no basis or evidence other than I moved up in weight, I might tell them to take a hike. Then again for 40 million other reasons I'd take the damn test and try to beat the shit out of them.

If Pac had simply said to "take a hike", I think things may very well have turned out different. I believe it was all the excuses, half compromises, and contradictions that made Pac look bad, and ultimately led negotiations down the ill fated path.

I'm sure there are countless examples of PED use that will never be known. There is an "arms race" between new more effective testing and drugs/administering techniques that aim to avoid detection. Time will tell if professional boxing does its best to keep current with the most effective testing procedures.

[AdamGB]

Yeah, saying no was kind of bad but he could of just shrugged it off and walked away from it... like you said it's the contradictions, bargaining, back tracking and out right lying which have hurt him the most.

An utter PR disaster.

[rjj tszyu]

The fact that he's moved up the weights isn't too amazing. It's the fact that he moved through the weights and has not lost any explosiveness. Oscar got less explosive as he moved up in weight!

[Myk_Myk]

Yeah, saying no was kind of bad but he could of just shrugged it off and walked away from it... like you said it's the contradictions, bargaining, back tracking and out right lying which have hurt him the most.

An utter PR disaster.

Right, but my point was also that Pac and Cos reaction was what gave the whole thing traction. If he had reacted with a no compromise approach, he may not have had to walk away. Ultimately the sport may be the better for it, as the light that has shown on the issue could bring updated testing procedures.

And as humans we speculate when we don't have the answers.

And right or wrong on the part of PBF, Pac had the opportunity to quiet a lot of that speculation...