A fight for the fans :: Pacquiao vs Williams

[jon09]

Pacman and every other fighter from 147 to 160 should avoid Paul like the plague.

[JazMerkin]

I would totally agree on you BUT there is one thing that makes me think that Pacman would smoke him off his shoes:

Williams has a very clear problem with southpaw, Martinez, Quintana are quite good proof of it. In that respect, I think that it would be a terrible mismatch.

So was Winky Wright

What Williams clearly struggles with are slick fighters with good movement. I think Pacquiao comes under that, but truthfully I think both Manny & Floyd would decision PW comfortably leading to him be branded overrated.

Anyway I'm not that bothered about seeing this fight. The only way that Williams is worth enough for one of the top 3 at 147 to fight is if he gets a win over Pavlik. Williams should focus on cleaning up at either 154 or 160. MW particularly is gonna get real hot over the next year or two.

Yeah but the difference with Winky is that Manny is a lot more aggressive and seems to pack much more power under his Reyes. Williams did struggle big time against Quintana and Martinez because have been very active against him and he couldn't cope with the big left coming over. For that reason, I think that Manny would slice through him in the later rounds.

Don't get me wrong, I think Manny would probably beat him, but he could probably keep it close, although that's assuming he could make 147 which I don't think he can.

But, it's clear to me that what he struggles with are people who move around him rather than southpaws. Now Manny can do this with his exceptional footwork, but I think many guys can. I think the fact that Martinez & Quintana are southpaws distracts people from the fact both of these guys are movers & fairly slick. I think even a guy like Cotto could have boxed rings round Williams as long as he didn't give in to his urge to engage in a firefight.

Williams totally wastes his natural advantages. He paws horribly with his jab & doesn't look to get the most out of his punches that he possibly could. Plus I think he's extremely vulnerable to speed. I think the Winky fight made him look much better than he is. Don't get me wrong he's a hell of a fighter, but perhaps not quite as good as we all bought into due the 'everyone is ducking me' debate.

[TheMacMagician]

I'd still love to see the punch stats after this fight, regardless of who wins man......

[ICB]

It really amazes me how far Manny Pacquiao has come, a few years ago it would of been ridiculous to even think Manny Pacquiao could beat anyone above 140. Now people are actually picking him to win vs 6'1 fighter who has fought as high as a Middleweight. It truly is unbelievable and it shows what a legend Manny Pacquiao is.

[Nameless]

So was Winky Wright

What Williams clearly struggles with are slick fighters with good movement. I think Pacquiao comes under that, but truthfully I think both Manny & Floyd would decision PW comfortably leading to him be branded overrated.

Anyway I'm not that bothered about seeing this fight. The only way that Williams is worth enough for one of the top 3 at 147 to fight is if he gets a win over Pavlik. Williams should focus on cleaning up at either 154 or 160. MW particularly is gonna get real hot over the next year or two.

Yeah but the difference with Winky is that Manny is a lot more aggressive and seems to pack much more power under his Reyes. Williams did struggle big time against Quintana and Martinez because have been very active against him and he couldn't cope with the big left coming over. For that reason, I think that Manny would slice through him in the later rounds.

Don't get me wrong, I think Manny would probably beat him, but he could probably keep it close, although that's assuming he could make 147 which I don't think he can.

But, it's clear to me that what he struggles with are people who move around him rather than southpaws. Now Manny can do this with his exceptional footwork, but I think many guys can. I think the fact that Martinez & Quintana are southpaws distracts people from the fact both of these guys are movers & fairly slick. I think even a guy like Cotto could have boxed rings round Williams as long as he didn't give in to his urge to engage in a firefight.

Williams totally wastes his natural advantages. He paws horribly with his jab & doesn't look to get the most out of his punches that he possibly could. Plus I think he's extremely vulnerable to speed. I think the Winky fight made him look much better than he is. Don't get me wrong he's a hell of a fighter, but perhaps not quite as good as we all bought into due the 'everyone is ducking me' debate.

I understand the mobility argument and it is a good one. However, Forrest was quite a mobile opponent and he didn't cause much difficulties to Williams at all. When you look back at the Quintana and the Martinez fight, the big left connect quite often too. I could agree that he has maybe been hyped a bit and that movement is something he doesn't like to deal with but from what I've seen, I am certain that the southpaw stance has something to do with it.

[JazMerkin]

Yeah but the difference with Winky is that Manny is a lot more aggressive and seems to pack much more power under his Reyes. Williams did struggle big time against Quintana and Martinez because have been very active against him and he couldn't cope with the big left coming over. For that reason, I think that Manny would slice through him in the later rounds.

Don't get me wrong, I think Manny would probably beat him, but he could probably keep it close, although that's assuming he could make 147 which I don't think he can.

But, it's clear to me that what he struggles with are people who move around him rather than southpaws. Now Manny can do this with his exceptional footwork, but I think many guys can. I think the fact that Martinez & Quintana are southpaws distracts people from the fact both of these guys are movers & fairly slick. I think even a guy like Cotto could have boxed rings round Williams as long as he didn't give in to his urge to engage in a firefight.

Williams totally wastes his natural advantages. He paws horribly with his jab & doesn't look to get the most out of his punches that he possibly could. Plus I think he's extremely vulnerable to speed. I think the Winky fight made him look much better than he is. Don't get me wrong he's a hell of a fighter, but perhaps not quite as good as we all bought into due the 'everyone is ducking me' debate.

I understand the mobility argument and it is a good one. However, Forrest was quite a mobile opponent and he didn't cause much difficulties to Williams at all. When you look back at the Quintana and the Martinez fight, the big left connect quite often too. I could agree that he has maybe been hyped a bit and that movement is something he doesn't like to deal with but from what I've seen, I am certain that the southpaw stance has something to do with it.

Forrest has never fought Williams, so I don't see what that's about unless you mean Verno Phillips who is most definitely not a mover, he's an inside fighter who looks to get in close & bang away.

Plus if you'd seen more of Williams career, he's fought a number of southpaws who he had no problem with like Terrance Cauthen, Andy Kolle and Sharmba Mitchell. Williams gets caught because of his lack of defensive awareness rather than the southpaw stance.

He's fought plenty of leftys who he rolled over, in fact I don't believe he's fought an orthodox guy since Margarito apart from Phillips.

[ICB]

Don't get me wrong, I think Manny would probably beat him, but he could probably keep it close, although that's assuming he could make 147 which I don't think he can.

But, it's clear to me that what he struggles with are people who move around him rather than southpaws. Now Manny can do this with his exceptional footwork, but I think many guys can. I think the fact that Martinez & Quintana are southpaws distracts people from the fact both of these guys are movers & fairly slick. I think even a guy like Cotto could have boxed rings round Williams as long as he didn't give in to his urge to engage in a firefight.

Williams totally wastes his natural advantages. He paws horribly with his jab & doesn't look to get the most out of his punches that he possibly could. Plus I think he's extremely vulnerable to speed. I think the Winky fight made him look much better than he is. Don't get me wrong he's a hell of a fighter, but perhaps not quite as good as we all bought into due the 'everyone is ducking me' debate.

I understand the mobility argument and it is a good one. However, Forrest was quite a mobile opponent and he didn't cause much difficulties to Williams at all. When you look back at the Quintana and the Martinez fight, the big left connect quite often too. I could agree that he has maybe been hyped a bit and that movement is something he doesn't like to deal with but from what I've seen, I am certain that the southpaw stance has something to do with it.

Forrest has never fought Williams, so I don't see what that's about unless you mean Verno Phillips who is most definitely not a mover, he's an inside fighter who looks to get in close & bang away.

Plus if you'd seen more of Williams career, he's fought a number of southpaws who he had no problem with like Terrance Cauthen, Andy Kolle and Sharmba Mitchell. Williams gets caught because of his lack of defensive awareness rather than the southpaw stance.

He's fought plenty of leftys who he rolled over, in fact I don't believe he's fought an orthodox guy since Margarito apart from Phillips.

To be fair though Jaz none of those Southpaw's you mentioned, are that good except Sharmba Mitchell. who was decent, but even he was shot. And i seem to remember him buzzing Paul Williams aswell.

I really don't know if he does struggle against Southpaw's, or its due to the fact that both Quintana, Martinez. Were both just bad style match up's due to being slick movers.

But then again Sergio Martinez didn't do much moving, and he seem to be catching Paul Williams all the time with Southpaw right hooks, i also seem to remember Sharmba Mitchell buzzing him with a Southpaw right hook aswell.

[JazMerkin]

I understand the mobility argument and it is a good one. However, Forrest was quite a mobile opponent and he didn't cause much difficulties to Williams at all. When you look back at the Quintana and the Martinez fight, the big left connect quite often too. I could agree that he has maybe been hyped a bit and that movement is something he doesn't like to deal with but from what I've seen, I am certain that the southpaw stance has something to do with it.

Forrest has never fought Williams, so I don't see what that's about unless you mean Verno Phillips who is most definitely not a mover, he's an inside fighter who looks to get in close & bang away.

Plus if you'd seen more of Williams career, he's fought a number of southpaws who he had no problem with like Terrance Cauthen, Andy Kolle and Sharmba Mitchell. Williams gets caught because of his lack of defensive awareness rather than the southpaw stance.

He's fought plenty of leftys who he rolled over, in fact I don't believe he's fought an orthodox guy since Margarito apart from Phillips.

To be fair though Jaz none of those Southpaw's you mentioned, are that good except Sharmba Mitchell. who was decent, but even he was shot. And i seem to remember him buzzing Paul Williams aswell.

I really don't know if he does struggle against Southpaw's, or its due to the fact that both Quintana, Martinez. Were both just bad style match up's due to being slick movers.

But then again Sergio Martinez didn't do much moving, and he seem to be catching Paul Williams all the time with Southpaw right hooks, i also seem to remember Sharmba Mitchell buzzing him with a Southpaw right hook aswell.

Then again Ice what rightys has he fought who were any good? Margarito & that's it.

I think Mitchell buzzed him because he was a good fighter rather than the stance. Plus whilst Martinez wasn't moving all around the ring, he was doing some great slick work in front of Williams.

I think he really looks to struggle with slick guys and to me that's indicative of his poor amateur career.

[generalbulldog]

I don't know about you guys but for some reason I could easily see it as a sort of modern day Hearns-Duran fight. A short and aggressive offensive juggernaut against a tall natural 147+ fighter. It didn't end too well for Duran in that fight. Even though it was fought at 154 and Manny has better mobility than Duran, the fight with Williams at 147 would still pose too many physical problems for Manny, imo.

[ICB]

I don't know about you guys but for some reason I could easily see it as a sort of modern day Hearns-Duran fight. A short and aggressive offensive juggernaut against a tall natural 147+ fighter. It didn't end too well for Duran in that fight. Even though it was fought at 154 and Manny has better mobility than Duran, the fight with Williams at 147 would still pose too many physical problems for Manny, imo.

I think thats a great comparison.

[TheMacMagician]

I don't know about you guys but for some reason I could easily see it as a sort of modern day Hearns-Duran fight. A short and aggressive offensive juggernaut against a tall natural 147+ fighter. It didn't end too well for Duran in that fight. Even though it was fought at 154 and Manny has better mobility than Duran, the fight with Williams at 147 would still pose too many physical problems for Manny, imo.

Thats exactly the kind of thing i'm thinking of man.... I just so wish that Williams was a more popular fighter. This would be a dream to promote then.....

[ICB]

Forrest has never fought Williams, so I don't see what that's about unless you mean Verno Phillips who is most definitely not a mover, he's an inside fighter who looks to get in close & bang away.

Plus if you'd seen more of Williams career, he's fought a number of southpaws who he had no problem with like Terrance Cauthen, Andy Kolle and Sharmba Mitchell. Williams gets caught because of his lack of defensive awareness rather than the southpaw stance.

He's fought plenty of leftys who he rolled over, in fact I don't believe he's fought an orthodox guy since Margarito apart from Phillips.

To be fair though Jaz none of those Southpaw's you mentioned, are that good except Sharmba Mitchell. who was decent, but even he was shot. And i seem to remember him buzzing Paul Williams aswell.

I really don't know if he does struggle against Southpaw's, or its due to the fact that both Quintana, Martinez. Were both just bad style match up's due to being slick movers.

But then again Sergio Martinez didn't do much moving, and he seem to be catching Paul Williams all the time with Southpaw right hooks, i also seem to remember Sharmba Mitchell buzzing him with a Southpaw right hook aswell.

Then again Ice what rightys has he fought who were any good? Margarito & that's it.

I think Mitchell buzzed him because he was a good fighter rather than the stance. Plus whilst Martinez wasn't moving all around the ring, he was doing some great slick work in front of Williams.

I think he really looks to struggle with slick guys and to me that's indicative of his poor amateur career.

I didn't know he had a poor Amateur career, so maybe your right there. But me personally i don't know, there's many ways too look at it. You could say well his hardest fights have come against Southpaw's.

And he is a sucker for a Southpaw right hook, but then you could say its hard too look good against Quintana, Martinez. And it could be just the style match up rather than the Southpaw stance.

[JazMerkin]

To be fair though Jaz none of those Southpaw's you mentioned, are that good except Sharmba Mitchell. who was decent, but even he was shot. And i seem to remember him buzzing Paul Williams aswell.

I really don't know if he does struggle against Southpaw's, or its due to the fact that both Quintana, Martinez. Were both just bad style match up's due to being slick movers.

But then again Sergio Martinez didn't do much moving, and he seem to be catching Paul Williams all the time with Southpaw right hooks, i also seem to remember Sharmba Mitchell buzzing him with a Southpaw right hook aswell.

Then again Ice what rightys has he fought who were any good? Margarito & that's it.

I think Mitchell buzzed him because he was a good fighter rather than the stance. Plus whilst Martinez wasn't moving all around the ring, he was doing some great slick work in front of Williams.

I think he really looks to struggle with slick guys and to me that's indicative of his poor amateur career.

I didn't know he had a poor Amateur career, so maybe your right there. But me personally i don't know, there's many ways too look at it. You could say well his hardest fights have come against Southpaw's.

And he is a sucker for a Southpaw right hook, but then you could say its hard too look good against Quintana, Martinez. And it could be just the style match up rather than the Southpaw stance.

He had a short amateur career of like 21 fights & went 11-10 or something close to that. It was mentioned in a feature on him in The Ring last year.

Don't quote me on the numbers, but I remember being shocked that an elite fighter had such a short & unaccomplished amateur background.

[ICB]

Then again Ice what rightys has he fought who were any good? Margarito & that's it.

I think Mitchell buzzed him because he was a good fighter rather than the stance. Plus whilst Martinez wasn't moving all around the ring, he was doing some great slick work in front of Williams.

I think he really looks to struggle with slick guys and to me that's indicative of his poor amateur career.

I didn't know he had a poor Amateur career, so maybe your right there. But me personally i don't know, there's many ways too look at it. You could say well his hardest fights have come against Southpaw's.

And he is a sucker for a Southpaw right hook, but then you could say its hard too look good against Quintana, Martinez. And it could be just the style match up rather than the Southpaw stance.

He had a short amateur career of like 21 fights & went 11-10 or something close to that. It was mentioned in a feature on him in The Ring last year.

Don't quote me on the numbers, but I remember being shocked that an elite fighter had such a short & unaccomplished amateur background.

Well thanks for the info i personally didn't have a clue, about his Amateur backgroud. And really if you think about his lack of Amateur backgroud, is probably why he doesn't use his physical advantages.

He often fights down to his opponents, when he doesn't have to. I'd really love to see him fight more technical. Whilst also using his physical advantages, he could be even better than he is now.

But that is asking alot, and he has done very well considering his Amateur career. But it is frustrating to see such a physically gifted fighter, not use there god given attributes to there full effect.

[McLovin]

This fight holds absolutely no appeal. Williams is a MW for christsake and should be focussing on cleaning out that division before moving up. Not boiling down to fight a guy who started out at 106, not matter how great that fighter may now be.

Freak show and non-starter for me.