Lucian Bute

[amat]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

[Kev]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

[CFH]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

I really don't want to have this argument again, but he's legitimately beaten Andrade twice. You can argue that Wright did a horrible job throughout the fight, but by the letter of the IBF's law, regardless of Wrights actions, Bute won that fight and to say otherwise is just incorrect. And I was cheering for Andrade.

[amat]

If we're going to be counting Froch's victory over Dirrell as a proper win, which it wasn't, then Bute's win over Andrade much stand. Although I do agree that he was GONE, in another place and for all intensive purposes should have a 1 in the loss column.

[OumaFan]

He's somehow Canadian and Eastern European. Just goes from bad to worse, or worst to pretty bad.

As long as we can all agree Dirrell's the number one guy at 168 everything will be ok.

[eagle]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

I think you have to look at how Bute get his wins against these guys too. He pretty much wins every round, then more often than not knocks them out in a brutal fashion.

He may not have a huge name on his resume yet but other than the slip up in the first Andrade fight he has totally dominated six second tier fighters in a row. He doesnt just beat them he KOs them early or wins every round.
No one, not even Calzaghe dominated Bika as much as Bute did. Andrade had never been KO'd til Bute did it, he dominated Zuniga more than Pavlik did. Berrio was IBF champ and but dominated him and KO'd him so bad it pretty much ruined him.
If Bute was eeking out home town decisions Ottke stye i'd agree with you, but i think his performances prove he belongs rght at the top of the division.

[Rantcatrat]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

Bilbo, In my humble opinion, you are giving too much credit to Ward for his win over Kessler. Who has Kessler actually beat to merit giving Ward so much credit for beating Kessler? I'm gonna come out and say it: He was overrated before the Ward match and the win is overrated now.

Just like you said about Bute, he has only beat a lot of second tier fighters and the best of the lot are Beyer, Mundine, and Andrade. Bute's wins over Andrade, Bika, Berrio, and Miranda are just as good. Truthfully, he's been beat everytime he has stepped up in competition. Now, I give him tons of credit for fighting the Calzaghe's and Ward's of the world...in their backyards. He lives up to his name as the Viking Warrior. However, he also receives too much credit for losing to Calzaghe.

I like Kessler as a fighter, but he needs a quality win BADLY. He's done at the top level if he loses to Froch. Straight up. This is put up or shut up for Kessler. And as much as I admire what Froch's done, it'll further lessen the significance of Ward's win if Kessler loses to him.

In regards to Bute, the point of the post, what he needs is that career-defining win at the top level. Like Kessler, he's shown he can dominate the second-tier guys in a deep division. Hopkins at 170 would be that sort of win even though he's old. Pavlik would have been too, but that idea is shot now. There really isn't anyone else at or around that weight for him to fight that would be such a win.

I also agree with Eagle in that he beats the second tier guys more impressively than anyone else, which has to say something about his ability.

[No Contest]

Lucian Bute doesnt get the respect he deserves. I don't know why he's not in the super six. Was that Showtimes doing or his doing? Everyone wants to write him off because of that one round against Andrade.

[CFH]

Lucian Bute doesnt get the respect he deserves. I don't know why he's not in the super six. Was that Showtimes doing or his doing? Everyone wants to write him off because of that one round against Andrade.

It's all explained earlier in this thread.

[ICB]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

Bilbo you make me laugh honestly, your the one that defended Lucian Bute. Regarding the Librado Andrade controversy, he went down when there was no time left in the round, he got up and beat the count. yes the ref was stupid for telling Librado Andrade to go to the neutral corner.

But that was irrelevant because when Lucian Bute, went down there was no time left in the round, all he had to do. Was beat the count and respond to the ref, which he did if the ref hadn't of told Librado Andrade off for the Neutral corner BS. There would be no controversy and it also took away, the heart shown from Lucian Bute to survive and win.

I know for 100 percent you also agreed, but yet here. Your saying he thought he lost why the change of mind ? because it sounds like your just trying to discredit Lucian Bute to make your point.

The fact is Lucian Bute has beaten overall better opposition, aswell as being a world champion since 2007.

Wins over.

Sakio Bika
Kabary Salem
William Joppy
Librado Andrade x2
Edison Miranda
Alejandro Berrio
Fulgencio Zuniga
Lolenga Mock = Floored David Haye.

Aren't great opposition but its a solid list, also Kabary Salem, Fulgencio Zuniga, Librado Andrade, had never been stopped until they fought Lucian Bute.

Its also the way he's been destroying, the opposition that you have to take into account.

Where as Carl Froch was way behind vs Jermain Taylor, until he scored a come from behind KO. He also earned a very razor thin decision over Jean Pascal, and totally got a gift off Andre Dirrell. Infact you could say in his last 3 fights he's lost atleast 24 rounds.

As for Andre Ward as i said he has one good win over a Mikkel Kessler, who hasn't been fighting top opposition since 2007. He's obviously not the same fighter anymore, yes it was a great win for Andre Ward and i give him props.

But good one win doesn't mean your suddenly the number 1 Super Middleweight, and im suprised you think that way. Considering how much you hate on Nonito Donaire, i mean hell Andre Dirrell deserves to be higher than Andre Ward.

Most think he beat Carl Froch, he also has solid wins over Arthur Abraham, Anthony Hanshaw.

[CFH]

I'm somehow agreeing with both of you

I think in the divisional rankings, it's Ward 1 because he did in fact beat the man regarded to be the man. When you do that you're top dog imo, even though Bute has the better resume.

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

Bilbo you make me laugh honestly, your the one that defended Lucian Bute. Regarding the Librado Andrade controversy, he went down when there was no time left in the round, he got up and beat the count. yes the ref was stupid for telling Librado Andrade to go to the neutral corner.

But that was irrelevant because when Lucian Bute, went down there was no time left in the round, all he had to do. Was beat the count and respond to the ref, which he did if the ref hadn't of told Librado Andrade off for the Neutral corner BS. There would be no controversy and it also took away, the heart shown from Lucian Bute to survive and win.

I know for 100 percent you also agreed, but yet here. Your saying he thought he lost why the change of mind ? because it sounds like your just trying to discredit Lucian Bute to make your point.

The fact is Lucian Bute has beaten overall better opposition, aswell as being a world champion since 2007.

Wins over.

Sakio Bika
Kabary Salem
William Joppy
Librado Andrade x2
Edison Miranda
Alejandro Berrio
Fulgencio Zuniga
Lolenga Mock = Floored David Haye.

Aren't great opposition but its a solid list, also Kabary Salem, Fulgencio Zuniga, Librado Andrade, had never been stopped until they fought Lucian Bute.

Its also the way he's been destroying, the opposition that you have to take into account.

Where as Carl Froch was way behind vs Jermain Taylor, until he scored a come from behind KO. He also earned a very razor thin decision over Jean Pascal, and totally got a gift off Andre Dirrell. Infact you could say in his last 3 fights he's lost atleast 24 rounds.

As for Andre Ward as i said he has one good win over a Mikkel Kessler, who hasn't been fighting top opposition since 2007. He's obviously not the same fighter anymore, yes it was a great win for Andre Ward and i give him props.

But good one win doesn't mean your suddenly the number 1 Super Middleweight, and im suprised you think that way. Considering how much you hate on Nonito Donaire, i mean hell Andre Dirrell deserves to be higher than Andre Ward.

Most think he beat Carl Froch, he also has solid wins over Arthur Abraham, Anthony Hanshaw.

He didn't even have to respond to the ref. The IBF rules state that the fight officially ended the moment his gloves cleared the canvas. Arguably, he could have gotten up and fallen over again and you could still argue that by the letter of the law he won. Whether or not those are acceptable rules is one thing, but the fact is that those are the IBF's rules and they are the rules that that fight was officiated with.

[PRIDE OF BOSTON]

Why has Bute got a better resume though?

Bute's resume.

Top Tier Fighters - None
Second Tier - Berrio, Miranda, Andrade (1-1), Bika

Ward's resume

Top Tier Fighters - Kessler

Second Tier - Miranda

If this were the Olympics Ward has a gold and a silver versus Bute's 3 silver (don't give him anything for Andrade as he lost the first fight) and thus wins.

Bilbo you make me laugh honestly, your the one that defended Lucian Bute. Regarding the Librado Andrade controversy, he went down when there was no time left in the round, he got up and beat the count. yes the ref was stupid for telling Librado Andrade to go to the neutral corner.

But that was irrelevant because when Lucian Bute, went down there was no time left in the round, all he had to do. Was beat the count and respond to the ref, which he did if the ref hadn't of told Librado Andrade off for the Neutral corner BS. There would be no controversy and it also took away, the heart shown from Lucian Bute to survive and win.

I know for 100 percent you also agreed, but yet here. Your saying he thought he lost why the change of mind ? because it sounds like your just trying to discredit Lucian Bute to make your point.

The fact is Lucian Bute has beaten overall better opposition, aswell as being a world champion since 2007.

Wins over.

Sakio Bika
Kabary Salem
William Joppy
Librado Andrade x2
Edison Miranda
Alejandro Berrio
Fulgencio Zuniga
Lolenga Mock = Floored David Haye.

Aren't great opposition but its a solid list, also Kabary Salem, Fulgencio Zuniga, Librado Andrade, had never been stopped until they fought Lucian Bute.

Its also the way he's been destroying, the opposition that you have to take into account.

Where as Carl Froch was way behind vs Jermain Taylor, until he scored a come from behind KO. He also earned a very razor thin decision over Jean Pascal, and totally got a gift off Andre Dirrell. Infact you could say in his last 3 fights he's lost atleast 24 rounds.

As for Andre Ward as i said he has one good win over a Mikkel Kessler, who hasn't been fighting top opposition since 2007. He's obviously not the same fighter anymore, yes it was a great win for Andre Ward and i give him props.

But good one win doesn't mean your suddenly the number 1 Super Middleweight, and im suprised you think that way. Considering how much you hate on Nonito Donaire, i mean hell Andre Dirrell deserves to be higher than Andre Ward.

Most think he beat Carl Froch, he also has solid wins over Arthur Abraham, Anthony Hanshaw.

He didn't even have to respond to the ref. The IBF rules state that the fight officially ended the moment his gloves cleared the canvas. Arguably, he could have gotten up and fallen over again and you could still argue that by the letter of the law he won. Whether or not those are acceptable rules is one thing, but the fact is that those are the IBF's rules and they are the rules that that fight was officiated with.

Either way he's undefeated and he learned a hard lesson that day, win or lose. He won, lucky for him and then dismantled Andrade in the subsiquent fight. That's all I needed to know in my book.