Haye v Klit - Negotiations underway confirms IBF

[rjj tszyu]

Just people talking about it on facebook and twitter. I agree it hasn't had much mention in the press, in contrast Froch did, but nobody was talking about it.

Sorry Jaz but Haye-Valuev was everywhere. It was all over the papers, all over most TV stations and then after he won it, it was similar to when Lennox beat Evander. Every back page (and a lot of front) was filled with Haye for 4-5 days after the fight. It sold just short of 1 million ppv's on Sky which when you think there are 5 times as many people in the U.S. as Britain and they are doing brilliantly to sell 2 million PPV's is quite astounding IMO. I don't think 1 million people would buy a Football match between Man Utd and Liverpool or Chelsea for £15.

Although I could probably agree that Rooney, Giggs and Gerrard may well be more well known at the minute when I sit back and think about it. Haye in the next 12 months has the potential to leave them in the dust both in Britain and worldwide.

Haye-Valuev was everywhere I agree, maybe outside of London it's different, but here Mayweather is bigger certainly with people under 25. He can be big, but football will always be the #1 game in this country and he will never surpass the biggest names there. I love boxing, but football players are our superstars, people might not pay £15 for a normal game, but I bet you'd have in the many millions who'd pay to watch the FA Cup Final, it's just all the biggest football games are actually protected to be on free tv.

So do you think any footballer in history has been more famous than Ali then?? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this.

[JazMerkin]

Sorry Jaz but Haye-Valuev was everywhere. It was all over the papers, all over most TV stations and then after he won it, it was similar to when Lennox beat Evander. Every back page (and a lot of front) was filled with Haye for 4-5 days after the fight. It sold just short of 1 million ppv's on Sky which when you think there are 5 times as many people in the U.S. as Britain and they are doing brilliantly to sell 2 million PPV's is quite astounding IMO. I don't think 1 million people would buy a Football match between Man Utd and Liverpool or Chelsea for £15.

Although I could probably agree that Rooney, Giggs and Gerrard may well be more well known at the minute when I sit back and think about it. Haye in the next 12 months has the potential to leave them in the dust both in Britain and worldwide.

Haye-Valuev was everywhere I agree, maybe outside of London it's different, but here Mayweather is bigger certainly with people under 25. He can be big, but football will always be the #1 game in this country and he will never surpass the biggest names there. I love boxing, but football players are our superstars, people might not pay £15 for a normal game, but I bet you'd have in the many millions who'd pay to watch the FA Cup Final, it's just all the biggest football games are actually protected to be on free tv.

So do you think any footballer in history has been more famous than Ali then?? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this.

You're talking worldwide, but you could actually make a strong argument regarding Maradona. Using Ali as an example doesn't work.

Try this, who's more famous in the UK, Henry Cooper or Bobby Charlton? Lennox Lewis or Gazza?

We're talking UK, not worldwide, Ali was a true phenomena who was representative of more than the sport, hence his slightly inflated position talent-wise in boxing history.

[rjj tszyu]

Haye-Valuev was everywhere I agree, maybe outside of London it's different, but here Mayweather is bigger certainly with people under 25. He can be big, but football will always be the #1 game in this country and he will never surpass the biggest names there. I love boxing, but football players are our superstars, people might not pay £15 for a normal game, but I bet you'd have in the many millions who'd pay to watch the FA Cup Final, it's just all the biggest football games are actually protected to be on free tv.

So do you think any footballer in history has been more famous than Ali then?? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this.

You're talking worldwide, but you could actually make a strong argument regarding Maradona. Using Ali as an example doesn't work.

Try this, who's more famous in the UK, Henry Cooper or Bobby Charlton? Lennox Lewis or Gazza?

We're talking UK, not worldwide, Ali was a true phenomena who was representative of more than the sport, hence his slightly inflated position talent-wise in boxing history.

First and foremost he was a boxer, that is what made him famous. He was famous for holding the biggest prize in sport, the HW championship of the world. You are entitled to your own opinion as far as his ability goes although for me he is as good as his reputation.

I know this isn't a great example but Google Muhammad Ali and see how many results you return and then do the same for Maradona. And use the UK version of Google too. I'll bet Ali out does him 5 times over at least.

In 1999 the BBC did a sportsman of the millenium and Ali beat Pele (who was second) and got over ten times as many votes. The HW champ of the world has far more capabilities than a footballer fame wise. I'm not knocking football at all (although i'm not happy with it at the moment, being a Burnley fan ), I love the sport but boxers have the potential to be the most famous sportsmen ever and that is proven.

Also as far as Lennoz and Gazza go i'd say Lennox is ahead of Gazza in fame, both here and worldwide. Charlton was a world class footballer whereas Cooper was brit/euro level boxer so that is not really fair but if you consider him a 3rd tier boxer then consider a 3rd divsion footballer from the 60's then his fame is astronomical in comparison

[JazMerkin]

So do you think any footballer in history has been more famous than Ali then?? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this.

You're talking worldwide, but you could actually make a strong argument regarding Maradona. Using Ali as an example doesn't work.

Try this, who's more famous in the UK, Henry Cooper or Bobby Charlton? Lennox Lewis or Gazza?

We're talking UK, not worldwide, Ali was a true phenomena who was representative of more than the sport, hence his slightly inflated position talent-wise in boxing history.

First and foremost he was a boxer, that is what made him famous. He was famous for holding the biggest prize in sport, the HW championship of the world. You are entitled to your own opinion as far as his ability goes although for me he is as good as his reputation.

I know this isn't a great example but Google Muhammad Ali and see how many results you return and then do the same for Maradona. And use the UK version of Google too. I'll bet Ali out does him 5 times over at least.

In 1999 the BBC did a sportsman of the millenium and Ali beat Pele (who was second) and got over ten times as many votes. The HW champ of the world has far more capabilities than a footballer fame wise. I'm not knocking football at all (although i'm not happy with it at the moment, being a Burnley fan ), I love the sport but boxers have the potential to be the most famous sportsmen ever and that is proven.

I didn't say that was my opinion, but in Latin America who do you think is bigger?

Anyway, you simply can't compare Haye to Ali. Even Tyson never got onto the level of Ali, and Haye is just nowhere near an Ali or Tyson.

Anyway you didn't answer my question pertaining to the UK, Cooper or Charlton or Lewis or Gazza?

In terms of fame, they are far more comparable with Haye/Rooney etc

[rjj tszyu]

You're talking worldwide, but you could actually make a strong argument regarding Maradona. Using Ali as an example doesn't work.

Try this, who's more famous in the UK, Henry Cooper or Bobby Charlton? Lennox Lewis or Gazza?

We're talking UK, not worldwide, Ali was a true phenomena who was representative of more than the sport, hence his slightly inflated position talent-wise in boxing history.

First and foremost he was a boxer, that is what made him famous. He was famous for holding the biggest prize in sport, the HW championship of the world. You are entitled to your own opinion as far as his ability goes although for me he is as good as his reputation.

I know this isn't a great example but Google Muhammad Ali and see how many results you return and then do the same for Maradona. And use the UK version of Google too. I'll bet Ali out does him 5 times over at least.

In 1999 the BBC did a sportsman of the millenium and Ali beat Pele (who was second) and got over ten times as many votes. The HW champ of the world has far more capabilities than a footballer fame wise. I'm not knocking football at all (although i'm not happy with it at the moment, being a Burnley fan ), I love the sport but boxers have the potential to be the most famous sportsmen ever and that is proven.

I didn't say that was my opinion, but in Latin America who do you think is bigger?

Anyway, you simply can't compare Haye to Ali. Even Tyson never got onto the level of Ali, and Haye is just nowhere near an Ali or Tyson.

Anyway you didn't answer my question pertaining to the UK, Cooper or Charlton or Lewis or Gazza?

In terms of fame, they are far more comparable with Haye/Rooney etc

Sorry I forgot but I later edited it with my opinion on that. see above

As far as Haye being compared to Ali, i'm not trying that. I'm talking about his potential fame wise and nothing really in terms of talent. I think ali is light years ahead in both categories but Haye hasn't got the competition Ali had to make him look bad. As far as his fame potential goes, he is a good looking, well trained, muscular man who has the potential to become undisputed HW champion of the world. That sounds quite similar to Ali to me.

[Fenster]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

[rjj tszyu]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

I am quite enjoying this little debate myself. No nastyness like you get from some other users just people using opinions and history to put there point across. Good stuff.

And WOW Pac beats Floyd?? Didn't expect that lol.

[JazMerkin]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

It's worth nothing because this forum & Lyle's endless 'why didn't Lennox rematch Vitali' rants probably make up 75% of those.

In response to rjjtszyu's point (btw couldn't you have had an easier name?), Cooper was above a Brit level boxer, he was very famous at a time when boxing was a bigger sport in Britain. Even if you ignore Charlton, put him up against someone like Gordon Banks. I prefer boxing, but it & its stars will never be bigger than footballers in the UK, just won't happen.

I also think that in recent years, the title of HW champ has been replaced by P4P champ in what matters to the public.

[rjj tszyu]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

It's worth nothing because this forum & Lyle's endless 'why didn't Lennox rematch Vitali' rants probably make up 75% of those.

In response to rjjtszyu's point (btw couldn't you have had an easier name?), Cooper was above a Brit level boxer, he was very famous at a time when boxing was a bigger sport in Britain. Even if you ignore Charlton, put him up against someone like Gordon Banks. I prefer boxing, but it & its stars will never be bigger than footballers in the UK, just won't happen.

I also think that in recent years, the title of HW champ has been replaced by P4P champ in what matters to the public.

No I like my name

Cooper was only so famous because Britain lacked a real class act in those days. He was not a world level fighter. He dropped a very young and inexperienced Clay and that made him a household name forever. I like Cooper but he is not of the same level in boxing as any top league footballer which Banks also was. IMO the greatest GK ever. You example of Lennox vs Gazza was a good one but as I said I think Lennox was more famous in the UK.... just.

As far as the p4p champ replacing HW champ as far as what matters to the public i'll agree with that, but more because of a lack of HW talent recently than anything. If we all of a sudden had a 70's rebirth of HW talent it would be back as the major prize in boxing, way above the mythical one.

[generalbulldog]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

[HattonTheHammer]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

take away the "UK Google search" and this is the single greatest thing ever posted in the history of this forum

[Fenster]

Comparing Football with boxing is a complete mismatch, but as individuals bigtime boxers are just as famous as footballers.

I would bet more non-sport fans recognise Haye over the likes of Lampard.

[generalbulldog]

Sorry to say this but I don't think the HW championship is the biggest prize in sports anymore, maybe at 1 time like say 45-50 years ago.

In America it's all about the Superbowl and it has been that way for the past 40+ years or so.

And I'm guessing winning the World Cup would be the biggest prize in sports today since soccer is the number 1 sport in the world.

And while Ali is definitely very popular worldwide, I'm thinking Pele or Maradona may surpass him since soccer is far more popular, if you're factoring in the Latin American countries and Asian countries.

[rjj tszyu]

Sorry to say this but I don't think the HW championship is the biggest prize in sports anymore, maybe at 1 time like say 45-50 years ago.

In America it's all about the Superbowl and it has been that way for the past 40+ years or so.

And I'm guessing winning the World Cup would be the biggest prize in sports today since soccer is the number 1 sport in the world.

And while Ali is definitely very popular worldwide, I'm thinking Pele or Maradona may surpass him since soccer is far more popular, if you're factoring in the Latin American countries and Asian countries.

Well boxing is back upto 2nd in the most watched sports in the world again.

Now I really know nothing about your Football so I don't want you to think I'm being ignorant here, but is the Superbowl that took place in say 2002 better remembered than Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson? Like I say I really don't know so i'm not being in any way funny here.

[generalbulldog]

Sorry to say this but I don't think the HW championship is the biggest prize in sports anymore, maybe at 1 time like say 45-50 years ago.

In America it's all about the Superbowl and it has been that way for the past 40+ years or so.

And I'm guessing winning the World Cup would be the biggest prize in sports today since soccer is the number 1 sport in the world.

And while Ali is definitely very popular worldwide, I'm thinking Pele or Maradona may surpass him since soccer is far more popular, if you're factoring in the Latin American countries and Asian countries.

Well boxing is back upto 2nd in the most watched sports in the world again.

Now I really know nothing about your Football so I don't want you to think I'm being ignorant here, but is the Superbowl that took place in say 2002 better remembered than Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson? Like I say I really don't know so i'm not being in any way funny here.

Yes, by far. The NFL has been the number 1 sport in America since the early 1960s or so. The Superbowl every year does massive ratings and usually establishes new records in views, whether it's percentage of households or raw numbers in America. The Lombardi Trophy of the NFL is considered to be America's top prize in sports. The HW championship is just something to be view at as like say Tiger Woods winning the Masters or Pete Sampras winning Wimbledon, it gets some coverage and a few Americans may be excited about it but not big. An example would be when Hasim Rahman ko Lennox Lewis and won the HW championship in 2001, it got mentioned but wasn't considered to be big or anything.

ANd put it this way, it was estimated that 2-3 billion people watched the 2006 soccer World Cup. ANd I'm guessing the 2010 World Cup will either post similar numbers or better. So I'm guessing in terms of worldwide, winning the world cup would be the number 1 prize in sports.

I love boxing as much as teh next guy on here, but the reality is that the HW championship doesn't have the prestige it once had in America, even when Tyson and Holyfield were in their prime, the HW championship wasn't view as being the top prize.