Haye v Klit - Negotiations underway confirms IBF

[JazMerkin]

So do you think any footballer in history has been more famous than Ali then?? I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this.

You're talking worldwide, but you could actually make a strong argument regarding Maradona. Using Ali as an example doesn't work.

Try this, who's more famous in the UK, Henry Cooper or Bobby Charlton? Lennox Lewis or Gazza?

We're talking UK, not worldwide, Ali was a true phenomena who was representative of more than the sport, hence his slightly inflated position talent-wise in boxing history.

First and foremost he was a boxer, that is what made him famous. He was famous for holding the biggest prize in sport, the HW championship of the world. You are entitled to your own opinion as far as his ability goes although for me he is as good as his reputation.

I know this isn't a great example but Google Muhammad Ali and see how many results you return and then do the same for Maradona. And use the UK version of Google too. I'll bet Ali out does him 5 times over at least.

In 1999 the BBC did a sportsman of the millenium and Ali beat Pele (who was second) and got over ten times as many votes. The HW champ of the world has far more capabilities than a footballer fame wise. I'm not knocking football at all (although i'm not happy with it at the moment, being a Burnley fan ), I love the sport but boxers have the potential to be the most famous sportsmen ever and that is proven.

I didn't say that was my opinion, but in Latin America who do you think is bigger?

Anyway, you simply can't compare Haye to Ali. Even Tyson never got onto the level of Ali, and Haye is just nowhere near an Ali or Tyson.

Anyway you didn't answer my question pertaining to the UK, Cooper or Charlton or Lewis or Gazza?

In terms of fame, they are far more comparable with Haye/Rooney etc

[rjj tszyu]

You're talking worldwide, but you could actually make a strong argument regarding Maradona. Using Ali as an example doesn't work.

Try this, who's more famous in the UK, Henry Cooper or Bobby Charlton? Lennox Lewis or Gazza?

We're talking UK, not worldwide, Ali was a true phenomena who was representative of more than the sport, hence his slightly inflated position talent-wise in boxing history.

First and foremost he was a boxer, that is what made him famous. He was famous for holding the biggest prize in sport, the HW championship of the world. You are entitled to your own opinion as far as his ability goes although for me he is as good as his reputation.

I know this isn't a great example but Google Muhammad Ali and see how many results you return and then do the same for Maradona. And use the UK version of Google too. I'll bet Ali out does him 5 times over at least.

In 1999 the BBC did a sportsman of the millenium and Ali beat Pele (who was second) and got over ten times as many votes. The HW champ of the world has far more capabilities than a footballer fame wise. I'm not knocking football at all (although i'm not happy with it at the moment, being a Burnley fan ), I love the sport but boxers have the potential to be the most famous sportsmen ever and that is proven.

I didn't say that was my opinion, but in Latin America who do you think is bigger?

Anyway, you simply can't compare Haye to Ali. Even Tyson never got onto the level of Ali, and Haye is just nowhere near an Ali or Tyson.

Anyway you didn't answer my question pertaining to the UK, Cooper or Charlton or Lewis or Gazza?

In terms of fame, they are far more comparable with Haye/Rooney etc

Sorry I forgot but I later edited it with my opinion on that. see above

As far as Haye being compared to Ali, i'm not trying that. I'm talking about his potential fame wise and nothing really in terms of talent. I think ali is light years ahead in both categories but Haye hasn't got the competition Ali had to make him look bad. As far as his fame potential goes, he is a good looking, well trained, muscular man who has the potential to become undisputed HW champion of the world. That sounds quite similar to Ali to me.

[Fenster]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

[rjj tszyu]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

I am quite enjoying this little debate myself. No nastyness like you get from some other users just people using opinions and history to put there point across. Good stuff.

And WOW Pac beats Floyd?? Didn't expect that lol.

[JazMerkin]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

It's worth nothing because this forum & Lyle's endless 'why didn't Lennox rematch Vitali' rants probably make up 75% of those.

In response to rjjtszyu's point (btw couldn't you have had an easier name?), Cooper was above a Brit level boxer, he was very famous at a time when boxing was a bigger sport in Britain. Even if you ignore Charlton, put him up against someone like Gordon Banks. I prefer boxing, but it & its stars will never be bigger than footballers in the UK, just won't happen.

I also think that in recent years, the title of HW champ has been replaced by P4P champ in what matters to the public.

[rjj tszyu]

Lennox Lewis beats Paul Gascoigne and Henry Cooper beats Bobby Charlton in the UK Google search, for what it's worth.

David Haye beats Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao beats them both, for what it's worth.

This is quite fun.

It's worth nothing because this forum & Lyle's endless 'why didn't Lennox rematch Vitali' rants probably make up 75% of those.

In response to rjjtszyu's point (btw couldn't you have had an easier name?), Cooper was above a Brit level boxer, he was very famous at a time when boxing was a bigger sport in Britain. Even if you ignore Charlton, put him up against someone like Gordon Banks. I prefer boxing, but it & its stars will never be bigger than footballers in the UK, just won't happen.

I also think that in recent years, the title of HW champ has been replaced by P4P champ in what matters to the public.

No I like my name

Cooper was only so famous because Britain lacked a real class act in those days. He was not a world level fighter. He dropped a very young and inexperienced Clay and that made him a household name forever. I like Cooper but he is not of the same level in boxing as any top league footballer which Banks also was. IMO the greatest GK ever. You example of Lennox vs Gazza was a good one but as I said I think Lennox was more famous in the UK.... just.

As far as the p4p champ replacing HW champ as far as what matters to the public i'll agree with that, but more because of a lack of HW talent recently than anything. If we all of a sudden had a 70's rebirth of HW talent it would be back as the major prize in boxing, way above the mythical one.

[generalbulldog]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

[rjj tszyu]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

England in the World cup final would be bigger no doubt. That is the one thing the English public have been waiting for, for 44 years now.

Football wins i lose

[rjj tszyu]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

England in the World cup final would be bigger no doubt. That is the one thing the English public have been waiting for, for 44 years now.

Football wins i lose

Although that would be a great days sport if it was to happen on the same day

[JazMerkin]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

It wouldn't even be debatable. Haye-fever lasts for a couple of days, maybe a week either side of the fight.

Our country cannot actually function without constant news on football. Even when there's no actual football being played, the sports pages are full of transfer stories & contracts extensions.

Any England game in the World Cup, even if they go out in the first round at the expense of the US, Algeria & Slovenia, will all be bigger than a Haye fight.

Then again, it's not like Wlad or Vitali are anywhere near the biggest stars in either Germany or the Ukraine. Again, in both those countries the footballers vastly overshadow them.

[rjj tszyu]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

It wouldn't even be debatable. Haye-fever lasts for a couple of days, maybe a week either side of the fight.

Our country cannot actually function without constant news on football. Even when there's no actual football being played, the sports pages are full of transfer stories & contracts extensions.

Any England game in the World Cup, even if they go out in the first round at the expense of the US, Algeria & Slovenia, will all be bigger than a Haye fight.

Then again, it's not like Wlad or Vitali are anywhere near the biggest stars in either Germany or the Ukraine. Again, in both those countries the footballers vastly overshadow them.

I don't know, they are well popular. If you put them against the German national team then yes but against just the Bayern Munich's and Leverkusen's of the the world Wlad and Vitali get 10 million viewers in Germany per fight alone. I don't know how many viewers the domestic games get in Germany but 10 million is some going and if they get that for every Bayern game i'd be impressed.

They are very different sports as far as news as there is so much more to talk and write about in football. And there are a hell of a lot more pro's in the sport too. It is not really something you can compare.

[JazMerkin]

I don't know, they are well popular. If you put them against the German national team then yes but against just the Bayern Munich's and Leverkusen's of the the world Wlad and Vitali get 10 million viewers in Germany per fight alone. I don't know how many viewers the domestic games get in Germany but 10 million is some going and if they get that for every Bayern game i'd be impressed.

They are very different sports as far as news as there is so much more to talk and write about in football. And there are a hell of a lot more pro's in the sport too. It is not really something you can compare.

German football does fantastically on both attendance & viewing figures because it's all affordably priced. I heard the other day on the Lyon-Bayern second leg commentary that the first leg was watched by 12m people in Germany. Considering they aren't even the country's biggest club, that's pretty impressive.

Also if you can't compare it, it's probably best to avoid statements saying someone is 'the biggest sports star' in whatever country

[boxingbantz]

So let's just say Haye fighting Wladimir for the HW championship and ENgland in the world cup final. What would be bigger in the UK?

I'm seriously asking this question, because some posters have mentioned that Haye is the biggest sports star over there and I know soccer/football is a very popular sport there as well.

Whoever told you that were either:

a) drunk
b) on drugs
c) lying
d) all of the above.

Wayne Rooney is the biggest sports star in the UK. People who don't watch football would even know who he is and that can't be said about Haye if people arent interested in boxing.

[paddy448]

Come on now we all no that audley Harrison is the biggest sports star from the uk.








Job biscuit (all u have to do is close ur eyes and u can see it)

[Chrislfc17]

I think Ali has to go down as the biggest and most famous sports star ever. I think some of that has to go down to what he did outside of the ring as much as what he achieved in it. His converting to Sunni Islam and subsequent name change, his refusal to fight in the vietnam war...etc...The list could go on. He's not just a sporting icon but an icon to those who don't follow boxing or sport in general.

I'm a huge football fan too and Pele is without doubt the biggest football player ever and comes a close 2nd to Ali for me. I don't think that really applies today though between boxing and football. There's no doubt players like Rooney, Terry, Gerrard and Lampard are bigger and more well known than someone like Haye. Lets not forget Haye could have walked down most streets in England two years ago and probably go unnoticed by most people.

Lets not forget that Haye only has a couple of fights a year so that will also increase interest as and when he does fight. If Man.U, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea only played football twice a year then I'm sure the figures would be higher than what Haye would ever get.

England in the World Cup Final would piss all over a Haye fight in terms of viewing and national interest. Football will always be the biggest sport in England and ultimately everything else comes 2nd.

On the Lewis-Gazza & Cooper - Charlton debate I have to say that Gazza and Charlton are more famous than either boxer. Again Gazza probably more so for his antics off the field than his anything else. Lewis was a lot less controversial and for that I think Gazza is probably more well known (difficult not to be bias here and say Lewis as he's one of my favourite boxers). Charlton is England's record goal scorer and won the World Cup. Not to mention he was in the Munich plane disaster so I think that alone makes him more famous. How many young people would really know who Cooper is? I think he's more a generation ago. A lot of older people would know our 'enry but I'm sure if you asked younger people they might ask, who? It's all subjective really and I'm just talking a load of bollocks!!