Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
lol - I'm now getting shit for my faulty P4P criteria. It's not mine it's Bilbos. Personally I believe in judging talent/skills/ability as much as resumes considering P4P is mythical nonsense. As this debate shows - Martinez will never be regarded above Hopkins overall yet he clearly is above Hopkins on current form. And that is it. Fact.

Well if you are only going to compare recent form then Hopkins is undefeated having gone 4-0-1 in his last five.

Martinez is 3-1-1

So your argument that past achievements don't count makes no sense either. I presume Hopkins would have been in your p4p prior to fighting Joe? He should have been coming off a majestic win over Tarver and he only lost a disputed decision to Calzaghe, by unanimous consensus the p4p number 3 at that time.

Since then he's not lost a fight and scored two outstanding wins against Pavlik and Pascal, and arguably beat Pascal twice.

Martinez has only fought one really good fighter Paul Williams (who had already been beaten by a B list fighter in Carlos Quintana) and he went 1-1 with him.

Hopkins opposition has simply been better.
Did you pursposely ignore that Martinez beat a far superior Pavlik?

Let me show you again - Pavlik? You are not seriously suggesting Pavlik's best weight has not been 160, right? The weight where he became lineal champ. The weight that he'd never LOST at until meeting Martinez. The weight he IMMEDIATELY moved backdown to after the Hopkins fight. A fight in which Hopkins weighed 185 on the night to Pavliks 176 wearing a tracksuit and trainers. Clearly Pavlik wasn't ready for that weight jump.

Of course Hopkins was rated P4P when beating Tarver and losing to Calzaghe. His opponents either side were Winky and Pavlik. However, that was over three years ago. You have to maintain a level of form, especially using your criteria. Hopkins current level of form is no better than many other fighters, and certainly not in Martinez league.

Show me 5-10 posters that think Hopkins last five opponents are stronger than Martinez? That is ridiculous.