Simulated Pavlik Calzaghe fight. here is the result.

[Fenster]

Anyone claiming Pavlik beats Calzaghe in the chin department is having a laugh.

Forget the fact that Calzaghe has fought by far the stronger competition, and forget the flash knockdowns both have suffered, name ONE time Calzaghe has been turned into a DRUNK staggering all over the ring not knowing how to use his legs?

Taylor was close to stopping Pavlik.

In fact, some refs would have jumped in to SAVE him from a further bashing.

Calzaghe hasn't EVER been close to getting stopped. Fact.

If Calzaghe took that many shots he would have been out allot earlier.

Calzaghe has NEVER been in a situation of being battered, dominated and bashed all over the ring.

Calzaghe may have felt the initial blow BUT would have most definitely slipped the rest.

That's what makes him a far SUPERIOR pugilist to the likes of Pavlik.

[Deanrw]

Again southakron cant debate he just throws out neg rep and "fuck off Euro trash"

Why is he here someone get rid of this idiot.

Well you incite people also. Calling fighters BUMS as well as other names. You and I had our own falling out in the past. He is not the only one guilty of it. People can be passionate over their favorite boxers, so insulting another one will almost always lead to a fight.

Calzaghe has fought bums Jones has fought bums.

Do you agree?

Now when a fighter gets knocked down by a bum how should i phrase it?

Listen i would never call an elite fighter a bum or a can and i have never slagged Pavlik off i put what i think on the table wanting a good debate it hypes fights makes them more enjoyable. Then you get this tool and that Demise just neg repping and slagging off every comment they dont agree with.

Argue, state your case dont just throw out aimless hate.

If i posted "Calzaghe is crap feather fisted bum basher" id get 10,00k good rep but if i put "I think Calzaghe will whoop Pavlik" you get a ton of neg rep.

I don't call any fighter a bum. I will say that they have all faced some weak opposition.

Would you call Gary Lockett a bum? I mean he went farther in his career than most fighters dream of. Was he strong opposition for Pavlik? No he wasn't. The guy is no bum though. It is a very bad term to use.

Yes Cal gets called Calslappy and Pavlik gets called Slow and One Dimensional. That is normal boxing fan behavior. Calling either a bum though is simply wrong IMO and insulting to not only the fighters, but the fans and the sport.

[C-Lo]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

The difference to me is that Calzaghe's been around a lot longer. Joe had chances to fight much better fighters in the 90's even early 2000s but he didn't. I know there may have been a case of Calzaghe wasn't a big name yet so why would Hopkins and Jones fight him. Still, he could've started something but it didn't happen. He's now fighting these guys after their time in the spotlight which is hard to give him full credit for.

Pavlik on the other hand is still 25, 26 years old and he's already trying to fight the best out there. He's not wasting any time and is accomodating his opponent's desired weight just to make the fight and not ducking anyone. This is why he's grabbing a lot of people's respect.

It would a great fight between the two of them. ABSOLUTELY a pick 'em! As someone said before, Pavlik has the tools to stop and hurt Joe but will Joe let him?

PLUS! Like I said before, Roy Jones isn't exactly a tune-up and Calzaghe WILL have his hands full.

[Markusdarkus]

Well you incite people also. Calling fighters BUMS as well as other names. You and I had our own falling out in the past. He is not the only one guilty of it. People can be passionate over their favorite boxers, so insulting another one will almost always lead to a fight.

Calzaghe has fought bums Jones has fought bums.

Do you agree?

Now when a fighter gets knocked down by a bum how should i phrase it?

Listen i would never call an elite fighter a bum or a can and i have never slagged Pavlik off i put what i think on the table wanting a good debate it hypes fights makes them more enjoyable. Then you get this tool and that Demise just neg repping and slagging off every comment they dont agree with.

Argue, state your case dont just throw out aimless hate.

If i posted "Calzaghe is crap feather fisted bum basher" id get 10,00k good rep but if i put "I think Calzaghe will whoop Pavlik" you get a ton of neg rep.

I don't call any fighter a bum. I will say that they have all faced some weak opposition.

Would you call Gary Lockett a bum? I mean he went farther in his career than most fighters dream of. Was he strong opposition for Pavlik? No he wasn't. The guy is no bum though. It is a very bad term to use.

Yes Cal gets called Calslappy and Pavlik gets called Slow and One Dimensional. That is normal boxing fan behavior. Calling either a bum though is simply wrong IMO and insulting to not only the fighters, but the fans and the sport.

The term bum has been around 4eva fighters, pundits and fans use it.

Lockett is a good journeyman. And i never called Pavlik a bum.

Calzaghe gets called Calslappy, Calfaggy you name it yet a word said against Pavlik draws a huge response. Not all but some of his fans are real tools.

You get that with power punchers through "fringe" fans who all of a sudden stand up and follow the guy. Lacy and Miranda also had.. shall we say a "cult" following same with Pavlik people ignore the flaws as he has power and all of a sudden any fighter within 2 weight classes no matter how great are bums and would get knocked out.

I actually wrote an article on power punchers and their fans and the response was that regular fight fans in turn hated the fighter through the actions of his fans. But it turned out to be a good thing as the banter made the hype and viewing figures soar.

[Markusdarkus]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

The difference to me is that Calzaghe's been around a lot longer. Joe had chances to fight much better fighters in the 90's even early 2000s but he didn't. I know there may have been a case of Calzaghe wasn't a big name yet so why would Hopkins and Jones fight him. Still, he could've started something but it didn't happen. He's now fighting these guys after their time in the spotlight which is hard to give him full credit for.

Pavlik on the other hand is still 25, 26 years old and he's already trying to fight the best out there. He's not wasting any time and is accomodating his opponent's desired weight just to make the fight and not ducking anyone. This is why he's grabbing a lot of people's respect.

It would a great fight between the two of them. ABSOLUTELY a pick 'em! As someone said before, Pavlik has the tools to stop and hurt Joe but will Joe let him?

PLUS! Like I said before, Roy Jones isn't exactly a tune-up and Calzaghe WILL have his hands full.

Im sorry you dont see much difference in Calzaghe and Pavliks opposition?

I find that baffling to say the least....

List common (in kind) opponents.

[Fenster]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

[Bomp]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

Good point. Calzaghe's fought over a dozen Zertuche type oppoenents plus the guys you mentioned before going on to Lacy-Kessler-Hopkins. All the guys you mentoined plus these 3 (that's 8 ) achieved a hell of a lot more in their careers than Miranda, that leaves just Taylor as a class opponent, so no, Pavlik hasn't got the same resume as Joe, as of now anyway.

by the way to the Pavlik fans, not dissing him, just defending Joe, Kelly's a very good fighter who may prove to be a great one day if he keeps progressing, his fights are also great to watch. If they fought now I'd actually favour Pavlik slightly, but only because Joe has been slipping gradually for a good few years but it's only really catching up with him now, +IMO he's gonna struggle with Jones.

[Deanrw]

Calzaghe has fought bums Jones has fought bums.

Do you agree?

Now when a fighter gets knocked down by a bum how should i phrase it?

Listen i would never call an elite fighter a bum or a can and i have never slagged Pavlik off i put what i think on the table wanting a good debate it hypes fights makes them more enjoyable. Then you get this tool and that Demise just neg repping and slagging off every comment they dont agree with.

Argue, state your case dont just throw out aimless hate.

If i posted "Calzaghe is crap feather fisted bum basher" id get 10,00k good rep but if i put "I think Calzaghe will whoop Pavlik" you get a ton of neg rep.

I don't call any fighter a bum. I will say that they have all faced some weak opposition.

Would you call Gary Lockett a bum? I mean he went farther in his career than most fighters dream of. Was he strong opposition for Pavlik? No he wasn't. The guy is no bum though. It is a very bad term to use.

Yes Cal gets called Calslappy and Pavlik gets called Slow and One Dimensional. That is normal boxing fan behavior. Calling either a bum though is simply wrong IMO and insulting to not only the fighters, but the fans and the sport.

The term bum has been around 4eva fighters, pundits and fans use it.

Lockett is a good journeyman. And i never called Pavlik a bum.

Calzaghe gets called Calslappy, Calfaggy you name it yet a word said against Pavlik draws a huge response. Not all but some of his fans are real tools.

You get that with power punchers through "fringe" fans who all of a sudden stand up and follow the guy. Lacy and Miranda also had.. shall we say a "cult" following same with Pavlik people ignore the flaws as he has power and all of a sudden any fighter within 2 weight classes no matter how great are bums and would get knocked out.

I actually wrote an article on power punchers and their fans and the response was that regular fight fans in turn hated the fighter through the actions of his fans. But it turned out to be a good thing as the banter made the hype and viewing figures soar.

Well I distinctly remember Red K 'ing you for saying it back when you first joined here. I hardly ever give Red K to anyone, so I tend to remember when I do.

[ssss]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

[Fenster]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level........

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

[Bomp]

Between Pavlik and Calzaghe's list of opponents, I honestly don't see much of a difference.

Both men fought somewhat easy opposition up until just recently. Calzaghe's resume didn't start looking solid until he fought Lacy while Pavlik's started looking good once he fought Zertuche.

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, if JC and Pavlik fight, if Pavlik wins will you be saying that Calzaghe was on the downslide?? especially considering those guys were a good few years younger than what Joe would be should he fight Kelly in early 2009. Also considering Kelly's next opponent and that Taylor could be argued to have slipped (rested on his laurels) after winning the title, what does that leave Kelly with??

[ssss]

That is ridiculous. Calzaghe's competition might not have been outstanding (well wasn't) BUT you either haven't been following boxing long... or seeing as the supermiddle divison has been pretty weak, you clearly don't know the fighters.

Calzaghe's opposition before Lacy...

Eubank - WBO champ (top 5 best ever supermiddle (arguable))
Brewer - IBF champ
Reid - WBC champ
Woodhall - WBC champ
Mitchell - WBA champ

Whether or not you know who these guys are - they were all "world" champion.

Mario Veit and Omar Sheika were decent young challengers.

Now you name Pavliks best opposition before Zertuche

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, if JC and Pavlik fight, if Pavlik wins will you be saying that Calzaghe was on the downslide?? especially considering those guys were a good few years younger than what Joe would be should he fight Kelly in early 2009. Also considering Kelly's next opponent and that Taylor could be argued to have slipped (rested on his laurels) after winning the title, what does that leave Kelly with??

If Pavlik Wins Will You Be Saying That Calzaghe Was On The Downslide

Good question i would say Joe Calzaghe is for certain at the point where he is starting to slip somewhat but its hard to tell because he had great performance against Mikkel Kessler then had bad showing against Bernard Hopkins but Bernard Hopkins makes everyone look bad.........

But i would say Kelly Pavlik didn't beat a prime Joe Calzaghe if he did indeed win.

[AdamGB]

Pavlik and McCart. Funny .So you are saying that Bronco McKart hits harder than Edision Miranda. That was a slip dude.I seen the whole fight . All seven rounds of it. Your favorite fighter is a complete bitch inside the ring and out.His fans boo our nations anthem.If it was not for the USA you would not have a country. You would be speaking german right now. Show some class.Calzaghe hits like a 85 pound Korean gymnast. Calzaghe has made a career out of fighting crappy european fighters. Omar Shieka , that douche that does porn .....whats his name. Robin whatever. He fought one great who is quallified for social security and gets hurt and floored by him and your ready to lick his toes for it. That was the ugliest win ever. My favorite boxer does not try to anally rape a old man in the ring. He doesnt hit like a girl. And is all around tough. Not a welsh bullet dodger. Why didnt he call out Hopkins, Toney , Tarver , and Jones back in the day. He knew he would lose.

Do your fucking home work kid... the german's didn't want to risk going over the Channel and we fucked their shit up every time they tried to fly over our country. They basically didn't think that the reward outweighed the risk and gave up even thinking of invading us once we spanked their airforce. The germans used a tactic called blitzcrieg to invade a country... sap it from the air and storm it when it was weak... they couldn't weaken us.... read up on it

Now if you're talking about France that would be a different story... and I wouldnt put it past you seeing as you managed to confuse Hatton's fans (ie football fans) with Calzaghes fans... you even managed to confuse Mayweather with Hopkins because they happened on different fights...

you also can't remember the ref stepping in because Manfredo was clearly out of his depth and STOPPING the fight... not taking calzaghe the distance like you said.

Are you on something?

Reason being axis forces were so over helmed in Europe with U.S forces that is what allowed british forces to but them up. You needed us. Dont deny it. buzz bombs and bomb raids. We won this war as a team. With out each other it would have been terrible for Europe.

No... this was a few years before D Day... even before American force starting fighting in italy.

Stop pulling shit out of your arse. The French might now speak German if it wasn't for the allied forces reclaiming Europe, but you were talking about the invasion of Britian.

[Fenster]

All those champions you mentioned have something in common they were all on the downslide of there career's when Joe Calzaghe fought them.

That's not the debate Ice

You wanna take up the challenge?

Go on - list Pavliks best wins before Zertuche

Kelly Pavlik was the same age as Joe Calzaghe when he won his first World title i think its unfair to compare there opposition because Kelly Pavlik has not yet had experience or as many fighters at championship level

But you could arguably say Kelly Pavlik's two wins over Jermain Taylor is better than any wins on Joe Calzaghe record because Jermain Taylor had beaten Bernard Hopkins twice who is considered Joe Calzaghe's best win and Jermain Taylor was in his prime when he fought Kelly Pavlik........

As for Kelly Pavlik's best wins before Jose Luis Zertuche well lets start way back with Grady Brewer who won the 2nd series of the Contender then we have Bronco McKart who is a good skilled experience fighter who was past his best but still a good test..........

Then lastly we have Fulgencio Zuniga who is a good puncher and a very durable opponent who had beat Jose Luis Zertuche and he has recently moved up to Super Middleweight and had a good win over an undefeated opponent.

The part i've crossed out is irrelevant (obviously).

So you believe journeyman Grady Brewer (), ten years past his best lightmiddle Bronco McKart and Lightmiddle Daniel Santos victim Fulgencio Zuniga BEATS, or compares with, Calzaghe's comp pre lacy?