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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
I don't. They lacked charisma and a personality. Ali almost did more for boxing outside the ring then he did in it.
...ah yes, we never would have advanced trash talking & fake press conference fights without the great Ali :rolleyes:
Don't insult my intelligence. Robinson was a chronic womanizer.
Womanizing isnt a crime , refusing to go to war is.
Many rich people draft dodged too at the time, so did Dempsey. Forget all that. Boxing he was the best.
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
So you dont think if no Clay , Liston wouldnt have been a big star , or Frazier , or Big George ? someone would have taken his place with honours
Liston, Frazier and Big George? Are you SERIOUS? The public couldn't have given a fuck less about those guys. Liston and George were unapproachable, unfriendly lugs, and Frazier never got over with the general public until he beat Ali. Being good and winning alone doesn't make you a superstar, no need to look further than the Klitschko's to reaffirm that.
Ali never took a spot, he created a spot that was never matched before or after. You don't talk about Ali's fame compared to other boxers, you talk about his fame compared to everyone else, because he is arguably the most famous man in the world. So to suggest that Liston, Foreman, or another lug would have taken his place... that's just insanity.
I'm far from an Ali fan. I think he was a dickhead as a person, and I think he gets WAY too much credit for ducking the Viet Nam war. He wasn't courageous, he was afraid to go over there and risk getting killed like any other guy. He didn't give two fucks about the Veit Nam war and "fighting those viet cong" until they changed the draft criteria to make him eligible. Before that, you never heard him open his mouth about it.
So yeah, I think he was a prick and overrated as a person, but I'm not going to act like he wasn't the greatest of all time. He was. His KO victory of a prime Foreman alone is worth 30 of Louis' Bum of the Month club victories or more. He had arguably the greatest skills and he has INARGUABLY fought and conquered the greatest HW opposition.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
True, but I can't think of one boxing champ in history who actually fought in a war. We all know Dempsey ducked the first war and they dogged him for that for decades.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vendettos
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Ali held soooo goddamn much (he stunk out the joint vs Frazier in the 2nd fight... who the hell has a boring fight with Frazier??).
Ali had a lot of great moments in the sport and beat a lot of real killers, but IMO if you look at his career as a whole, he was more boring in the ring than the Klitschko's.
I never find VKs fights boring.
Do you think this forum would exist if Ali wasn't the big name he was? Just curious.
I think he was the reason I ever knew about boxing as a child.
I personally think he was good at winning fights he probably shouldn't have, he won by any means.
Jesus H. Christ! I hope you don't actually think Ali is bigger than boxing.
Boxing would be different (better IMO) if Ali never existed, but it would still be doing fine.
Yes, this forum would be here if Ali never existed, the Internet is bigger than Ali and boxing. IMO
I don't believe that. I did say I was just curious.
Some people would say that without Ali boxing would be dead.
I personally don't know. I believe it would still be here, but wed be missing a golden era.
It's just my opinion, take it or leave it. If you spend more than 10 minutes thinking about it you are wasting your time.
Make up you own mind, believe what makes sense to you just like we all do.
I don't believe Ali was greatest, in or out of the ring.
When Ali beat Foreman he went up a few levels in my mind.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
The "Nation" of Islam was pretty much the black mafia....they threatened fighters, managers, and even Ali especially right around the time Malcom X was falling out with them. They weren't & aren't "nice" people.
Ali was who he was, people either love him or hate him. I think he's one of the most overrated fighters in the history of the sport and his record shows he had many close battles and lost/should have lost many times. People like to assume in the hypothetical matchups that Ali would beat anyone and everyone when he had so much trouble with a 1 dimensional fighter like Joe Frazier (great but 1 dimensional), he got dropped hard by Henry Cooper, he struggled vs Ron Lyle & Ken Norton.
Ali IS an icon of boxing probably most for his celebrity outside the ring as his performances in it and that's just the God's honest truth.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
The "Nation" of Islam was pretty much the black mafia...
They were and are basically the black equivilent of the KKK or a neo-nazi group. Bunch of racist thugs who aren't even acknowledged by real Muslims.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
The "Nation" of Islam was pretty much the black mafia...
They were and are basically the black equivilent of the KKK or a neo-nazi group. Bunch of racist thugs who aren't even acknowledged by real Muslims.
.....well of course, but they also sent Earnie Terrell's manager to the looney bin after threatening him & are thought to have paid off Sonny Liston to take a dive in the rematch and other Mafia-esque tactics...point is they weren't good people...still aren't
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
He was broke whilst in exile and lost his best years, he is no coward. He took the harder option because no way were the US going to put him on the front line and risk the embarrassment of him being killed. He could have joined and taken the easy option and come back with the title and millions but he turned that all down.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
It is a fact that the Nation of islam loosened the ropes in Zaire. Archie Moore swore he saw 2 guys with skullcaps about 3 hours before the fight doing stuff to the ropes. If you watch the fight again and take a good look at the ropes, they are unbelievable elastic, I never seen anything liek it. If Ali wouldnt a been able to lean back so far on those rubber bands, Foreman woulda reached him with better leverage. Foreman's shots were thrown whilst he was leaning far forwards trying to reach the rope-laying Ali---he was on the very tips of his toes and balls of his feet whilst throwing at Ali---then Ali would illegally grab him about the neck and push his head down hoping for fellatio. No points deducted.
No rematch either. ;)........ 3 fights with Norton and Frazier but---
ONLY ONE WITH BIG GEORGE. No rope-a-dope second time round my friends.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
He was broke whilst in exile and lost his best years, he is no coward. He took the harder option because no way were the US going to put him on the front line and risk the embarrassment of him being killed. He could have joined and taken the easy option and come back with the title and millions but he turned that all down.
Dont give me what happen while in jail crap ,if you are a citizen and called up you go fight or whatever you are told to do.
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR = COWARD.
THE END.
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I find it odd that of all things that Ali is called a coward for not fighting in the war. I don't know his true motives but his actions alone didn't make him a coward. When you look at the state of the US in that time period when men of color were still being legitimately discriminated against and abuse for the color of their skin I can't blame Ali one bit. Sure you can say that he was making money in the US and so forth but he was still not treated as an equal citizen and if he had courage to say I'm not fighting for a country that regarded his family members and African American friends as 2nd class citizens well fair play to him. I'm not saying he was right or wrong but looking at things the context of that time period calling him a coward is a bit extreme IMO
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chinchekked
I find it odd that of all things that Ali is called a coward for not fighting in the war. I don't know his true motives but his actions alone didn't make him a coward. When you look at the state of the US in that time period when men of color were still being legitimately discriminated against and abuse for the color of their skin I can't blame Ali one bit. Sure you can say that he was making money in the US and so forth but he was still not treated as an equal citizen and if he had courage to say I'm not fighting for a country that regarded his family members and African American friends as 2nd class citizens well fair play to him. I'm not saying he was right or wrong but looking at things the context of that time period calling him a coward is a bit extreme IMO
The End. :)
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
He was broke whilst in exile and lost his best years, he is no coward. He took the harder option because no way were the US going to put him on the front line and risk the embarrassment of him being killed. He could have joined and taken the easy option and come back with the title and millions but he turned that all down.
Dont give me what happen while in jail crap ,if you are a citizen and called up you go fight or whatever you are told to do.
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR = COWARD.
THE END.
Utter bollocks.
You get your head blown off for a fabricated cause and see who has the last laugh. You would likely be swallowing your own intestines in a nation that has nothing to do with you.
I might not like Ali for his religious nonsense, but his decision was moral and just. He didn't have to make that choice, but he did. And good on him. Cowards don't resist the calling of their empire building overlords, Ali did. It was also a completely racist empire builder and thus you can see where he was coming from. White men in ivory towers enslaving at home and enslaving abroad.
The man was very brave on that basis.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
He was broke whilst in exile and lost his best years, he is no coward. He took the harder option because no way were the US going to put him on the front line and risk the embarrassment of him being killed. He could have joined and taken the easy option and come back with the title and millions but he turned that all down.
Dont give me what happen while in jail crap ,if you are a citizen and called up you go fight or whatever you are told to do.
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR = COWARD.
THE END.
Utter bollocks.
You get your head blown off for a fabricated cause and see who has the last laugh. You would likely be swallowing your own intestines in a nation that has nothing to do with you.
I might not like Ali for his religious nonsense, but his decision was moral and just. He didn't have to make that choice, but he did. And good on him. Cowards don't resist the calling of their empire building overlords, Ali did. It was also a completely racist empire builder and thus you can see where he was coming from. White men in ivory towers enslaving at home and enslaving abroad.
The man was very brave on that basis.
You know Miles your right, Clay was a real hero to all Americans.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
He was broke whilst in exile and lost his best years, he is no coward. He took the harder option because no way were the US going to put him on the front line and risk the embarrassment of him being killed. He could have joined and taken the easy option and come back with the title and millions but he turned that all down.
Dont give me what happen while in jail crap ,if you are a citizen and called up you go fight or whatever you are told to do.
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR = COWARD.
THE END.
Utter bollocks.
You get your head blown off for a fabricated cause and see who has the last laugh. You would likely be swallowing your own intestines in a nation that has nothing to do with you.
I might not like Ali for his religious nonsense, but his decision was moral and just. He didn't have to make that choice, but he did. And good on him. Cowards don't resist the calling of their empire building overlords, Ali did. It was also a completely racist empire builder and thus you can see where he was coming from. White men in ivory towers enslaving at home and enslaving abroad.
The man was very brave on that basis.
You know Miles your right, Clay was a real hero to all Americans.
Don't be so retarded. You lost your argument, move on and chew grass.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
The Great Joe Louis was HW champion and fought for his country , so he was greater in and out of the ring. A real hero a man for all ages .;)
To be fair, Louis never did any real "fighting" and was never expected to. He did boxing exhibitions and talked to the troops to boost morale. There are tons of celebrities who went over to Iraq to do the same thing, and we don't say that they were over there fighting for their country.
With Muhammad Ali, he was going to be handed a rifle and dropped in a jungle to kill or be killed.
Yes i agree with you totally he was a coward for not answering the call up.
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
You think all the people before him who went to Nam wanted to ? i think not , but they did their duty without question , all those who didnt, got rightly sent to prison.
As for him beating Joe , i dont remember anyone in this thread saying anything other than some thought Joe was the greatest ever, due to his resume in his era.
For me Clay was a coward who hid behind a religion he had adopted.
He was happy to be American when he was taking the riches , but not when called apon to serve them , what a fucking hypocrite.
He was broke whilst in exile and lost his best years, he is no coward. He took the harder option because no way were the US going to put him on the front line and risk the embarrassment of him being killed. He could have joined and taken the easy option and come back with the title and millions but he turned that all down.
Dont give me what happen while in jail crap ,if you are a citizen and called up you go fight or whatever you are told to do.
CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR = COWARD.
THE END.
Utter bollocks.
You get your head blown off for a fabricated cause and see who has the last laugh. You would likely be swallowing your own intestines in a nation that has nothing to do with you.
I might not like Ali for his religious nonsense, but his decision was moral and just. He didn't have to make that choice, but he did. And good on him. Cowards don't resist the calling of their empire building overlords, Ali did. It was also a completely racist empire builder and thus you can see where he was coming from. White men in ivory towers enslaving at home and enslaving abroad.
The man was very brave on that basis.
You know Miles your right, Clay was a real hero to all Americans.
Don't be so retarded. You lost your argument, move on and chew grass.
it wasnt an argument on my part just my opinion.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Opinion and argument frequently differ, oftentimes they are easily exchanged. You know that you are wrong.
Go to war strong Dark Al. We laugh at you from afar, but go to war and die for your pathetic cause you masculine non-black form you, pathetic bastard.
Just me being nice. He seems like Lyle. Too bloated with a big head and a racist heart.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gandalf
Opinion and argument frequently differ, oftentimes they are easily exchanged. You know that you are wrong.
Go to war strong Dark Al. We laugh at you from afar, but go to war and die for your pathetic cause you masculine non-black form you, pathetic bastard.
Just me being nice. He seems like Lyle. Too bloated with a big head and a racist heart.
A very interesting view you have of me , and i will leave it at that.
To answer the origional question in the thread.
Id say quite a few.
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
At least as many as Quitaly Clinchko.
;D
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Re: From how many fights should Ali have been DQ'ed for holding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
So you would go to war for a cause you do not believe in? That is not being a coward that is courageous. He gave up his title and millions of dollars for a cause he believed in. He was proved right.
Why is it that the people who say that they hate the stuff surrounding Ali always mention it the most? Ali beats Joe Louis too fast, quick and slick.
Save me the whining, Joe Louis gave up years of his prime to be in the service. Joe could have had 30 or more title defenses had it not been for World War II!
"He was proved right"....by who? Vietnam was there to be won were it not for the "intellectuals" & flower children....bunch of Trotsky, Che Guavera loving bastards. Look what those "make love not war" bullshitters have wrought on society!
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The problem with this argument is with the Nation of Islam. They were corrupt and devious in their ways and they had influences over Ali in ways we will probably never know. If it was simply that Ali refused to fight for a country that didn't treat him fairly then fair play to him. He doesn't lose pts just because Louis didn't refuse because while they both lost years of their careers for different reasons but they both made choices. The thing is that Ali said no to being pimped out to a war and he suffered the consequences for that decision. This is what added to Ali's popularity, he was defiant in the face of bullcrap and whether right or wrong that won him supporters from all walks of life. Ali didn't fall in line with what he was being told and that stance gave people who were discriminated against a sense of dignity an defiance that can't be articulated. I remember on the Ali vs Holmes documentary there was a story where one guy asked an older black gentleman why he picked Ali to beat Holmes and the guy answered along the lines of "because Ali gave me my dignity". Whether you agree or not is your choice, or even if you don't understand it that is why people have that larger than life view of Ali. That's why he transcended boxing and despite LEGITIMATE arguments that he is not the best, some people aren't trying to hear it no matter what. I'm not saying its right but I have no problem understanding it at all. For all of his bullshit, Ali gave people hope because he was a public black figure who told the govt no when that just didn't happen often.
