Looking for the roots of terrorism

Nice.

Here's a root cause of terrorism, the collapse of The Ottoman Empire

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

3. He tries to make clear the independent nature of individuals and small groups and disavow us of the notion of cells. That is a military allegory that makes us feel there are similar military rules of engagement, and there are not. They are criminal and psychopathic.

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There are both though! We have home grown terrorists and we have home grown fighters who head back to their birth places to fight for Allah and Mohammad.

Some work single for sure, like that fuckwit in Sydney who killed in the cafe recently. But many also eventually are organized into cells too its a fact,911 was a group of men who broke into 3 organized cells on a timed hit, how can it be seen any other way? It occurs both ways so why only look one way at it I dont really get it?

Unless maybe we are on total crossed purposes here mate and I think you might be talking about and are trying to stem the real dumb from within our western societies getting ideas and heading for the Mosques and disrupting the innocent families there -young angry men eventually going in with the old style like the shaved heads and bother boots of old routine to rout them out in their evil dopey mindless fucking way.Those types of people who get dumbed down enough to attack Muslim women on trains etc.
That has to be your thoughts here?

There are young -------- (you fill in the blanks call em what you like, see what you come up with as a term Id be very interested) men leaving our shores to go and fight against our armies overseas.Thats a fact happened in the Afgan conflict to a minor degree now in Syria ina larger degree, we cant stop them returning back to their birth home to fight for Allah and Mohammads cause of Jihad;its happening,it is an occurrence.
They are not single criminals and physcopaths.

Where they form into groups was the main item and the main question raised here in this journos works.Not if they form into groups.

Im not against him or his works or you being 100% on his side or he fact he so called educated that is a swipe.
Im all for you protecting innocent Muslims who I agree are 97% clear, but why aren't you all for routing out the small percentage that hides among them?

I cant think of any answer for that question, except "they are not hiding in amongst their own religion". I await to stand corrected on that view.

The fundamentalist groups these lads aim at joining have recently stated to these would be soldiers of Allah and Mohammad the last prophet; "Stay in your countries there and spill blood there". Sure some fuckwits will singly get up and do exactly that. Some will be in pairs some in threes or more.

I dont get the one eyed views either way, as if it all has to be viewed one way or the other which somehow makes one view right and one wrong. This is a big subject with many fights on many fronts you cant white wash all occurrences away with one other new found true fact and that was this journalists approach it wasnt just reporting it was nailing a flag in and making a claim. (Just my view,trying to look at it both ways so to speak).

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Andre.

You of all people should know me well enough by now to realise that I am not a subscriber to 'one eye views'. I should then maybe make myself clearer. The article is an interview with an Anthropologist, not the views of a journalist, so already it is presenting another way of looking at something. So yes it wasn't merely reporting, but making a point is not the same as making a claim that seeks to whitewash the argument ? I too do not think that the only point worth making is that potential terrorist are not all just hiding in amongst their own religion, I am merely trying to stop the whole discussion descending into ever decreasing circles of blame and very little headway being made.


"It’s the organized anarchy of it that does more to terrorize than actually carefully planned commando operations"

The threat is unpredictable and in his realm it is his job to try and understand behavioural patterns and then help predict it.

I do not subscribe to the idea of these being staged events with crisis actors like Miles does, I think that is beyond myopic and incredibly offensive. I also do not subscribe to the easy 2 =2 + 4 argument of Kirkland that seeks to solely blame the actions of Western Governments. I also don't think that closing all Mosques is likely to achieve much either except fostering animosity and attacks on all small ethnic and religious groups. And yet I am expected to respond to stuff like this ?


"Im not against him or his works or you being 100% on his side or he fact he so called educated that is a swipe.
Im all for you protecting innocent Muslims who I agree are 97% clear, but why aren't you all for routing out the small percentage that hides among them?"



This is extremely disingenuous. IT has become like forum apartheid. Why would you think I was against routing out terrorists? That's crazy and I am getting sick to the back teeth of it to be honest. You try and take a balanced approach and you get labelled a bleeding heart liberal (not by you). Yes I get pissed with people using terms like "so called educated" because it took that guy 6 or 7 years of hard work to get recognised for his expertise and I love education. I work in education and people pay thousands of pounds to better themselves and expand their brain, mind, experience and intellect, often whilst working long hours and sometimes bringing up a family, and so I will not so easily dismiss them with some mislead notion that the academic life is an easy one. Many Anthropologists live for years in tribal societies and have just as many valid spiritual, mental and life experiences as you. Ryan spent years studying immigration at a very high level and yet he is dismissed because people like to make themselves self appointed experts or rely on half baked ideas and hearsay.


I always try to look at things from more than one fixed point of view and I regret any suggestion that I do otherwise. I am not angry ;D or preaching:-\ Or hounding anyone. but please people stop assuming any alternative view is some kind of attack or bleeding hearted liberal capitulation. It's impossible to have a discussion when people have already filled in your half of the conversation before you open your mouth.

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Ok we are on the same page.
Im all for routing out these fuckers where there meet.
In reality here in Australia, ASIO are doing that undercover within Islam and that is the only way to find out who is stepping out of their back doors for private meetings and grooming their kids for war against us here in the west.

I 've never been with the close all mosques idea either. That would bring open warfare onto our streets if you think about the stages and where it would all lead.

Thing is here in the forum,I've pointed out that its a fact we know where these lads are coming from here and it is the other side of homegrown terrorism, I belive the Anthropologist fellow who went and interviewed terrorists interviewed ones that strike at home not the already organised system of recruting from within the religion and there was no mention of that or that those lines do cross at times as seen in 911.

My beliefs about it stem from the arrests out here and where they actually found these fellows,I think its right to go in after them.

People out there whos main aim is to protect the rights of individuals to practice what they like above everything else and belive the goverment is trying to form more controls over everyone through fear of this religion etc are jaded. They ignore real threats,real facts to prove their points and will try to dump others into the reverse group to theirs politically and the reverse occurs too then they both lose focus in the blame game, meanwhile the physical threat to us all is still building its reserves and numbers from within.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

If you want to know what they're angry about you could try asking the fucking terrorists, or even just listen to what they say. Other than the gys upset about cartoons in every single case it's because of us interfering in their countries (9/11 guys) Israel killing people in neighbouring countries/Palestinians (9/11 and most terrorist attacks previous to that), us invading Afghanistan/Iraq and killing hundreds of thousands ( 99.something percent of attacks since 2001.) Case in point. The people giving interviews to bystanders after they knifed that British soldier. And so on.

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@Kirkland Laing that may well be true for the genesis of many of the groups and the attacks they carry out however for me it can't be the definitive reason to explain Islamic extremism as there are things that don't fit.
Boko Haram for instance are not engaging in Anti-Western activities.
ISIS were happy to have no involvement and conflict with the US.

There is more to terrorism than just blow back against countries that have interfered.
If it were simply that then as I said before we would also be having a spate of international terrorist groups emanating from South and Central America.

There are a multitude of reasons for the spate of Islamic extremist groups and I think that an anti-west agenda is just one of those reasons. For some groups it is the primary reason, yet for others it doesn't really feature at all. So for me it isn't a satisfactory (complete) explanation.

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For over half a century now Saudi Arabia has been funding radical Islam all over the world. The Saudi brand of Islam, Wahaabism, is pretty indistinguishable from the brand practiced under ISIS. Saudi have funded the building of mosques all over the Muslim world including Nigeria, Pakistan, Britain and so on and they in most cases get radical Waahabi imans preaching in them as part of the deal.

Fundamentalist Islam used to be a minority thing but due to Saudi money it's becoming the dominant strain of religion. Preachers funded by Saudi and Gulf state money are all over the world and the internet preaching hate. This is the ideological foundation of groups like Al Quaeda and ISIS.

If we didn't involve ourselves in their part of the world they'd be far too busy fighting amongst themselves to bother about us (see Syria pre our involvement) but once we get involved then some of them are going to respond violently.

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For real, bang on the money.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

@Andre Don't forget that Greenbeanz is the one that created this thread -
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gies-evil.html

I think he takes a very balanced and objective view mate. He never makes excuses for the acts, he doesn't deny that there is a problem of an extremist strand in Islam. Yet he also doesn't make sweeping statements that are anti Islamic.
Also, when discussing the causes of Islamic extremism he is balanced in that he can see,and has often said, that the causes are more complex than those often put forward. Saying that he doesn't want all the mosques closed doesn't mean he is in denial that there is an issue that needs addressing.

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Sure, and me pointing out some factual events and a whole section of terrorism the Anthropologist fellow omitted doesnt make me the reverse to him or anti education either.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by ryanman

@Andre Don't forget that Greenbeanz is the one that created this thread -
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gies-evil.html

I think he takes a very balanced and objective view mate. He never makes excuses for the acts, he doesn't deny that there is a problem of an extremist strand in Islam. Yet he also doesn't make sweeping statements that are anti Islamic.
Also, when discussing the causes of Islamic extremism he is balanced in that he can see,and has often said, that the causes are more complex than those often put forward. Saying that he doesn't want all the mosques closed doesn't mean he is in denial that there is an issue that needs addressing.

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Sure, and me pointing out some factual events and a whole section of terrorism the Anthropologist fellow omitted doesnt make me the reverse to him or anti education either.

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Of course not but terms like "so called educated" can hardly be interpreted as a ringing endorsement of education either. I can not speak for Ryan or anyone else, but it is certainly not my intention to polarise debate, far from it. I have never suggested people disagreeing must somehow take the reverse position of any point that I am making, or an argument I agree with, but it is something that I have thrown in my face everyday. People seem unable or unwilling to tolerate anything but one extreme or another. Life in my experience is never ever that simple.

there is a real threat, and there are those who will not offer solutions. To them the obsession is to at all costs remain altruistic and humane which I too am all for, but solutions are being avoided at the real expense of foregone time, losing the jump on it day by day as it builds globally. I have advocated seriously coming up with strategies similar to what @Andre has suggested as well, to rout out the maybe 1% of extremist cells/groups among them as well. I have suggested (and even taken a small bit of action here in Turkey with) fantastic strategies of community outreach, relationship building, working together with imams to identify individuals who may be overheard or observed speaking about planning violent acts, etc. or exhibiting in the opinion of an imam a dangerous extremist behavior, calls for violent jihad against innocent people, etc. But there are those who will say there is some problem or other with this, and yet will offer no solution of their own. Its easy to sit back singing Kum-Ba-Ya and say what the solution is NOT, that is the contrarian's way of not sticking one's neck out and offering a solution.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

there is a real threat, and there are those who will not offer solutions. To them the obsession is to at all costs remain altruistic and humane which I too am all for, but solutions are being avoided at the real expense of foregone time, losing the jump on it day by day as it builds globally. I have advocated seriously coming up with strategies similar to what @Andre has suggested as well, to rout out the maybe 1% of extremist cells/groups among them as well. I have suggested (and even taken a small bit of action here in Turkey with) fantastic strategies of community outreach, relationship building, working together with imams to identify individuals who may be overheard or observed speaking about planning violent acts, etc. or exhibiting in the opinion of an imam a dangerous extremist behavior, calls for violent jihad against innocent people, etc. But there are those who will say there is some problem or other with this, and yet will offer no solution of their own. Its easy to sit back singing Kum-Ba-Ya and say what the solution is NOT, that is the contrarian's way of not sticking one's neck out and offering a solution.

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Within seconds

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by ryanman

@Andre Don't forget that Greenbeanz is the one that created this thread -
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gies-evil.html

I think he takes a very balanced and objective view mate. He never makes excuses for the acts, he doesn't deny that there is a problem of an extremist strand in Islam. Yet he also doesn't make sweeping statements that are anti Islamic.
Also, when discussing the causes of Islamic extremism he is balanced in that he can see,and has often said, that the causes are more complex than those often put forward. Saying that he doesn't want all the mosques closed doesn't mean he is in denial that there is an issue that needs addressing.

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Sure, and me pointing out some factual events and a whole section of terrorism the Anthropologist fellow omitted doesnt make me the reverse to him or anti education either.

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Of course not but terms like "so called educated" can hardly be interpreted as a ringing endorsement of education either. I can not speak for Ryan or anyone else, but it is certainly not my intention to polarise debate, far from it. I have never suggested people disagreeing must somehow take the reverse position of any point that I am making, or an argument I agree with, but it is something that I have thrown in my face everyday. People seem unable or unwilling to tolerate anything but one extreme or another. Life in my experience is never ever that simple.

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Did I write so called educated? I couldnt find where I did that? ,if it was me, then i would of been pointing out this fellow aimed at one part of terrorism and then painted the whole scene from that one point. Thats how I read it, but I am uneducated :cool:.;D

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

there is a real threat, and there are those who will not offer solutions. To them the obsession is to at all costs remain altruistic and humane which I too am all for, but solutions are being avoided at the real expense of foregone time, losing the jump on it day by day as it builds globally. I have advocated seriously coming up with strategies similar to what @Andre has suggested as well, to rout out the maybe 1% of extremist cells/groups among them as well. I have suggested (and even taken a small bit of action here in Turkey with) fantastic strategies of community outreach, relationship building, working together with imams to identify individuals who may be overheard or observed speaking about planning violent acts, etc. or exhibiting in the opinion of an imam a dangerous extremist behavior, calls for violent jihad against innocent people, etc. But there are those who will say there is some problem or other with this, and yet will offer no solution of their own. Its easy to sit back singing Kum-Ba-Ya and say what the solution is NOT, that is the contrarian's way of not sticking one's neck out and offering a solution.

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It is merely your assertion that is my obsession. It is quite obvious that in reality the one thing I could not be so easily labelled as, is a pussy footer. While it is lovely to hear you boasting about your "fantastic strategies" in a country and religion that apparently is not your own, It's quite difficult to believe much that you say. When you can bring yourself to address me in person then maybe others will start to see promise in your new found ambassadorial role. I offer no easy solutions because I am not so arrogant or naive to think that is within my ability. Did you mention to your Muslim friends your desire to shut all the Mosques in Europe or your desire to personally vet the English speaking ability of all Immigrants to the UK and USA or your desire to do unspeakable things and rub pork fat into the mouths of Terrorists or your Bwaaahhhaaahaaing every faith and religion and their gullible followers?

You can call me a bleeding heart liberal until you are blue in the face and dismiss me as a do gooder or some other nefarious bullshit reduction, but it won't make your own argument any stronger and it certainly will do nothing to let things move forward.

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

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Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

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Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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Shh you are only allowed to whisper these things! You will get us all killed.

There are some governments and western religious orders that also need to be closed down too if the truth is known.

Fruit cakes everywhere these days.

Indonesia really worries me for both reasons.

;D you are fucking fruit cake too btw.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

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Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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Shh you are only allowed to whisper these things! You will get us all killed.

There are some governments and western religious orders that also need to be closed down too if the truth is known.

Fruit cakes everywhere these days.

Indonesia really worries me for both reasons.

;D you are fucking fruit cake too btw.

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YES and packed with currants, candied cherries, and the most purple MULBERRIES :cool:

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

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Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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Shh you are only allowed to whisper these things! You will get us all killed.

There are some governments and western religious orders that also need to be closed down too if the truth is known.

Fruit cakes everywhere these days.

Indonesia really worries me for both reasons.

;D you are fucking fruit cake too btw.

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YES and packed with currants, candied cherries, and the most purple MULBERRIES :cool:

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And Nuts.

Ive started my own religion. It's one where people don't get violently offended by the actions of others, where priests don't fiddle with kids and where countries don't need to be partitioned because they have different imaginary friends.

It's a non-prophet organisation.

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Originally Posted by Andre

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Originally Posted by ryanman

@Andre Don't forget that Greenbeanz is the one that created this thread -
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...gies-evil.html

I think he takes a very balanced and objective view mate. He never makes excuses for the acts, he doesn't deny that there is a problem of an extremist strand in Islam. Yet he also doesn't make sweeping statements that are anti Islamic.
Also, when discussing the causes of Islamic extremism he is balanced in that he can see,and has often said, that the causes are more complex than those often put forward. Saying that he doesn't want all the mosques closed doesn't mean he is in denial that there is an issue that needs addressing.

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Sure, and me pointing out some factual events and a whole section of terrorism the Anthropologist fellow omitted doesnt make me the reverse to him or anti education either.

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Of course not mate.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

---

Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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I thought the same but it's just guess work really for us.
I saw a documentary which had cctv footage inside a supposedly radical Mosque.
At some point two guys came in espousing jihad and were actually confronted and physically removed.
I was surprised and pleased to see that.

No one is denying there is a an issue Brockton. It's just different views, opinions and guesses on the origins of the problem, the nature of the problem, the scale of the problem and the solution to the problem.
I don't see anyone denying an issue and pretending everything is fine (or singing kam-ba-ya) it's just people giving their opinion (which might be different to yours) on the other aspects of the debate. Someone giving a different opinion isn't the same as saying that your not entitled to yours.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

---

Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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I thought the same but it's just guess work really for us.
I saw a documentary which had cctv footage inside a supposedly radical Mosque.
At some point two guys came in espousing jihad and were actually confronted and physically removed.
I was surprised and pleased to see that.

No one is denying there is a an issue Brockton. It's just different views, opinions and guesses on the origins of the problem, the nature of the problem, the scale of the problem and the solution to the problem.
I don't see anyone denying an issue and pretending everything is fine (or singing kam-ba-ya) it's just people giving their opinion (which might be different to yours) on the other aspects of the debate. Someone giving a different opinion isn't the same as saying that your not entitled to yours.

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What makes you right?:mad:
When I am? ;D

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by Andre

Going on our past I'm certain each of our countries would in each main city have deep operatives that have been inside for years.
Im all for them on this occasion its the only way to nip them at the bud.

---

Im all for those operatives, cooperatives, and Scotch Bonnet Sonnets, Sonic Rocket Cell-Busters. :cool:
Also, there are some mosques which should be closed, as every member of them are very audibly espousing violent jihad.

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I thought the same but it's just guess work really for us.
I saw a documentary which had cctv footage inside a supposedly radical Mosque.
At some point two guys came in espousing jihad and were actually confronted and physically removed.
I was surprised and pleased to see that.

No one is denying there is a an issue Brockton. It's just different views, opinions and guesses on the origins of the problem, the nature of the problem, the scale of the problem and the solution to the problem.
I don't see anyone denying an issue and pretending everything is fine (or singing kam-ba-ya) it's just people giving their opinion (which might be different to yours) on the other aspects of the debate. Someone giving a different opinion isn't the same as saying that your not entitled to yours.

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On Point.

I haven't seen anyone deny there is an issue. Kum-Ba-Ya means someone who poo-poo's someone's suggestions of community action/relationship building/working together with imams on the grounds that "don't tell Muslims what to do" etc. but then they themselves offer no solutions and/oradmit they don't have the expertise to find a solution. I think you misinterpreted what I meant by Kum-Ba-Ya. I hope I clarified that now. Stop talking shit about Kum-Ba-Ya its a right good choon mate. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORAtxIVPbuM

The is a wonderful song you haters.;D

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

I haven't seen anyone deny there is an issue. Kum-Ba-Ya means someone who poo-poo's someone's suggestions of community action/relationship building/working together with imams on the grounds that "don't tell Muslims what to do" etc. but then they themselves offer no solutions and/oradmit they don't have the expertise to find a solution. I think you misinterpreted what I meant by Kum-Ba-Ya. I hope I clarified that now. Stop talking shit about Kum-Ba-Ya its a right good choon mate. ;)

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It's just a childish never ending dig and one that you are seeking to impose as a stereotype. Closing all the Mosques in Europe is not working together, it's a dumb thing to say, Just like 29 Million Romanian Immigrants, etc. These were threads you started, not passing comments, It's a free forum and you can say what you like but you don't get the right to shut down debate by insisting that anyone who does not 100% agree with your looney ideas is a hater, or some other PC rubbish. It's weird, I have sensed a disconnect in your recent posting but could not put my finger on it. It is, that the inverse of what you are claiming, is actually true. You really are paranoid, and so over sensitive and bleeding hearted liberal that you can not stand people not pussy footing around you. If it's not adoration it's seen as an attack, that I am afraid is your problem mate and something you are going to have to learn to deal with. I have never put anyone on ignore, or sent you or anyone else bad rep, or any abusive PM's, or solicited other posters to log in onto another anonymous account on my behalf, or threatened other posters by PM, and am not about to do so. So maybe you can give it a rest and let it go, if you have the expertise to manage that. I am sure the forum and the entire Muslim world would be grateful for such a fantastic gesture of reconciliation.

You ever get the feeling a load of old shit could get get dragged out?
Beanz, Brock already said The shut all mosques was a knee jerk emotional post to what happened.
We all knew it,it got talked out. We all just got to lighten up and refrain from getting personal or all the threads will just go to shit.
Theres a Lets get it on section if you really want to swing or go crazy and post stuff but we are all reasonably chill even there, but it seems those engagements start out here first like it has to be seen.
Why care about BHL I have some tenancies to that side and some to the other big deal,I think the key to engaging on the size of personalities we have here is to really not care. I mean really dont give a fuck what others think, its no great problem you can still respect others right to be opposed to you or your political stances without any underlying hatred then.
Zen; no blame / no fight.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Here's a root cause of terrorism, the collapse of The Ottoman Empire

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If the Ottoman Empire still ruled the Middle East they'd be the ones being bombed by the radical nutters.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Here's a root cause of terrorism, the collapse of The Ottoman Empire

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If the Ottoman Empire still ruled the Middle East they'd be the ones being bombed by the radical nutters.

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Well that was a Sunni Islamic state so maybe yes, maybe no it depends on if the nutters respected the leader of that Empire.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Here's a root cause of terrorism, the collapse of The Ottoman Empire

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If the Ottoman Empire still ruled the Middle East they'd be the ones being bombed by the radical nutters.

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Well that was a Sunni Islamic state so maybe yes, maybe no it depends on if the nutters respected the leader of that Empire.

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If you read a bit about the history of the Ottoman empire you'll see they faced insurgencies in almost all the areas they occupied, particularly among the tribes in Mesopotamia (now Iraq and Sunni-region Syria) and what is now Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Here's a root cause of terrorism, the collapse of The Ottoman Empire

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If the Ottoman Empire still ruled the Middle East they'd be the ones being bombed by the radical nutters.

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Well that was a Sunni Islamic state so maybe yes, maybe no it depends on if the nutters respected the leader of that Empire.

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If you read a bit about the history of the Ottoman empire you'll see they faced insurgencies in almost all the areas they occupied, particularly among the tribes in Mesopotamia (now Iraq and Sunni-region Syria) and what is now Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

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I've read about the Middle East as far back as their ancient civilizations they have always ALWAYS fought. The Ottomans would have troubles with the Shia I am sure as well.

Saudi Arabia’s New King Helped Fund Radical Terrorist Groups | Washington Free Beacon

The LEAST surprising headline of the day

The answer to finding these terrorists might be easier than they think, after all Muslims believe there is a magic man in the sky and anyone who believes that is a bit daft regardless. We all know there is no Allah and Mohammed was not his final messenger, but they believe it so why not exploit it?

Just ask them if they are terrorists, and if they say no say "ok you swear on the honour of Allah that you are not a terrorist or have terrorist thoughts"? Swearing to god and the holy bible or whatever doesn't mean shit to most people because most people know that it's all bullshit and don't take it seriously, but I don't think a terrorist would be able to lie on the name of Allah. Say "if you're lying now you also agree that Allah is shite and Mohammad fucked animals", and there's no way they could lie even to protect their own necks, so when they come clean arrest them and it's one less terrorist on the streets.

I've been seriously studying every aspect of terrorism and terrorists the last several years, from socialogical, cultural, psychological aspects. Terrorism is indeed a very complex issue and it's definitely not for amateurs and needs to scrutinized in a very fair and objective manner, in all its complexity and details. After all my years of, sometimes agonizing and sleepless nights, studying this very complex issue, I have come to a conclusion that the root of all terrorism, in whatever form or wherever they may be, is no other than... hold your breaths... is no other than Bob Arum himself! Yes, that infamous fellow who manipulates the world with his guile and deception, is the root cause of all terrorism... as well as the ducking of the greatest boxer in the world...

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Saudi Arabia’s New King Helped Fund Radical Terrorist Groups | Washington Free Beacon

The LEAST surprising headline of the day

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You do know a dislexic terrorist is going to bomb that Washington news paper believing it to be Washington free Bacon.Obviously its a dig at Muslims and their eating habits.;)

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

The answer to finding these terrorists might be easier than they think, after all Muslims believe there is a magic man in the sky and anyone who believes that is a bit daft regardless. We all know there is no Allah and Mohammed was not his final messenger, but they believe it so why not exploit it?

Just ask them if they are terrorists, and if they say no say "ok you swear on the honour of Allah that you are not a terrorist or have terrorist thoughts"? Swearing to god and the holy bible or whatever doesn't mean shit to most people because most people know that it's all bullshit and don't take it seriously, but I don't think a terrorist would be able to lie on the name of Allah. Say "if you're lying now you also agree that Allah is shite and Mohammad fucked animals", and there's no way they could lie even to protect their own necks, so when they come clean arrest them and it's one less terrorist on the streets.

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But then we would have no excuse to kidnap suspects off the streets of Europe,bag them, fly them to Czechoslovakia in the early evening on government planes and ask them nicely in a country without our jurisdictions and laws; while we pretend to get the paper work organized for them to be brought to a USA military jail for real questioning.
Think of all the jobs we would lose.This is called a war machine, its not called a war lets go ask Allah ;D.

Everyone here is a "moderate" Muslim. Lets have a show of hands. Madness.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpeIS25jhK4

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Everyone here is a "moderate" Muslim. Lets have a show of hands. Madness.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpeIS25jhK4

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I agree that to subscribe to a doctrine in which one man or a group of men remove the need to think for yourself is madness. It is the path of least resistance. This is the problem at the heart of Islam that I have never made any bones about expressing from day one. It is incompatible with the way we think in the west and very much like the views of Christian fundamentalists who seem to also believe that there is no longer any need to follow their own heart, brain, mind or common sense. When there is an accident or tragedy people often reveal remarkable selflessness, courage and kindness and this for me reveals the true nature of humanity, it is what sets us apart from the animals. I found this video on the youtube page of the one you posted. It is remarkable how much fundamentalists have in common, and yet how different these two young men are. While there are also problems with thinking only logically and ignoring our intuition, it is the young atheist lad here who is the balanced one. He is displaying proof that even without a spiritual belief and a reliance on logic, he is clearly in touch with his own heart, mind and common sense (intuition). The Muslim guy has even forgotten how to have a conversation. Dogma and narrow man imposed thinking, has led him to just repeat parrot fashion an argument that makes no relevant sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv071...22327029#t=221

How can any non brainwashed person believe that it is right, or in the interests of Justice or in the service of a beneficent or merciful God to stone someone to death ? Only those who do not listen to their own God given heart could believe such a thing.

Its all so confusing. Wahabi sects are certainly dodgy Wasabi sex is good too.

I should also say that one video is not the most representative way of explaining the thoughts of every moderate Muslim. Remember that the guy who saved all those Jews by hiding them in the fridge in Paris was a Muslim and the Policeman protecting the Charlie Hebdo "blasphemers" who was shot dead, was a muslim. I would be surprised to find that they were fans of stoning. I have expressed reservation and caution from day one about extremes in either direction and using arguments that could be interpreted as xenophobic. Nowhere did I call anyone a xenophobe for expressing uncomfortableness with such irrational ideologies. That is what should set us apart form extremists. The ability to vehemently disagree without acting like a different opinion is blasphemy.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

and the Policeman protecting the Charlie Hebdo "blasphemers" who was shot dead, was a muslim.

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To be fair, that guy was just responding to a shooting: he didn't know who he was protecting or the motive of the shooters.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Its all so confusing. Wahabi sects are certainly dodgy Wasabi sex is good too.

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Wasabi sex ? Horseradish on your bellend does not seem like a great recipe for the food of love :o

Canadian Muslim group funnelled $300K to Hamas-linked charity: Documents | Canad


This is what we're dealing with up here now too. Ughhh. Supporting terrorists morally AND financially.