I'm not sure that this was the best way to entice Mayweather to the discussion table....
Discuss.
Printable View
I'm not sure that this was the best way to entice Mayweather to the discussion table....
Discuss.
I look at it this way, it will probably be a perfect last fight for Mayweather and Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
How it will be hyped wise
Mayweather beat Marquez who was Pacquiao's rival, and Shane Mosley who was the lineal 147 champ.
Pacquiao just beat Cotto and Margarito, two people, that people like to say Mayweather ducked.
So therefore, if Pacquiao beats Mayweather, people can say he took apart the lineal 147 pound champ and best p4p in the world. And if Mayweather beats Pacquiao, they'll say he is greater because he beat the guy who decimated the two fighters people say he ducked.
So it's a win win for both, so the filler fights make sense. But only on the outside looking in as if it was a book.
But if knocking out Margarito in brutal fashion would deter Mayweather from fighting someone, he never would have took on Shane.
They should lock floyd up and tell him the only way he can get out of jail is if he fights pac. No wait, he will gladly stay in jail.
I dont know the answer.
Floyd needs to clear up his legal troubles first before the possiblity of a match even takes place.
I just don't see how Mayweather can keep Pac honest. Manny is more explosive, just as fast, punches harder and throws so much more. It's a fight I just struggle to see Mayweather winning. Pac just has too much of everything.
I think deep down, Mayweather probably knows this and seeing what we saw here, he is unlikely to want to step up and face this beast any time soon.
Mayweather signing a contract to fight Pac will in itself earn my respect. But I do think Manny needs to agree to drug testing with no windows. The fight should also be at 147.
Miles that opinion of yours is not base on the fact that pac just whoop margarito is it? Cause Majesty made a good point about how floyd face Shane who just ko'ed Tony.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I bet Pac scared Floyd more.
Pac just beat a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater. Floyd will do what Marquez did against Pac...except 100 times more effectively. You think Floyd is going to war?! You think Floyd doesn't have a plan A, B, and C?! Floyd has the legs to dance ALL NIGHT. He is too slick, too skilled, and too smart. Roach has cherry picked perfect guys for Pac the last few fights. Credit to him for handling his job. But Floyd is the most naturally gifted pure boxer in the game. It will be a great fight...but i see Floyd putting on a master class. Pac needs to take the tests and Floyd needs to clear up his legal issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
Aside from whether Floyd and Manny ever fight, for Floyd to have the equal medal of achievement as Pac has, Floyd would need to be fighting at 160 right now and beating the best there..
That is basically what Pac is doing.. Fighting 2 to 3 classes above where he could have comfortable sat, beat everyone, and still be considered P4P 1.
Mayweather skill wise is as good as you will ever see... But as far as outright accomplishments and balls and thirst for great legacy, Pac is whooping his ass...
(If they don't fight) Unless Mayweather fights at 154 his next fight, then 160,,,, they will both retire with Pac having won the legacy battle... I can find no one on Mayweather list, in their Prime or otherwise, who could step in the ring with Pac at 140 or 147 or 154 and beat him right now...
I don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.
It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.
I thought Manny and his team agreed until the last 24/7 when they said they agree ONLY if they let him have a 7 day window :rolleyes:. So I guess the whole "We agree to the blood tests" that Bob Arum said was just not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Miles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.
It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.
The same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMiles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.
It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.
It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.
You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.
Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.
Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.
Lol @ Pacquiao's titles in 8 different weight classes when he has never officially fought at any of the actual weight's.
However, I agree...A performance like that probably wasn't the best way to entice Floyd to the table - Then again, Floyd happily took on Shane who decimated Margarito worse than Pacquaio did by the sounds of things.
Depends where Floyds head is..usually it's in his ass with all his shit going on outside of boxing.
Pretty much why I gave up following what was happening with this fight and will continue to do so until I hear an OFFICIAL source confirm it.
Whether it will happen or not.. one thing is for sure, floyd or anyone else who literally throws a punch (unlike clottey the human punching bag) against manny pacquiao will not look pretty at the end of the fight. whether you win or not, manny pacquiao will make sure you will walk through hell with him.
Also Floyd Jr also aged a bit, the rock hit by Mosley tells everything, the longer the fight time with Pac ill consider his reflexes/stamina is in downside, asked RJJr. or Mosley :d.
Still Floyd cant be underestimated he can still prove time and time again one of the best in business. still hoping can be made early 2011.
s"I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century." hahahaha! wow! i guess there is no point arguing with you then. keep drinking the kool aid.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThe same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMiles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.
It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.
It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.
You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.
Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.
Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.
So many people didn't know how Mayweather would keep Mosley honest, but he totally nullified Shane's offense. One I might add that destroyed Margarito even worse than Pacquiao.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Mayweather doesn't beat guys with just his speed, it's his timing his defense. Manny needs to be faster than you to win, he needs to be allowed to fight his fight, and he looks great when he is allowed to do his style of fight, but his last few opponents have been picked to make him look exceptionally good. When was the last time we saw him against a skilled counter punching type fighter? Marquez and Barrera, and in both those second fights Pacquiao didn't look all that impressive offensively. Look how much faster and better Mayweather is than them.
People are getting too caught up on the wrong aspects of speed when they think Mayweather-pacquiao. Pacquiao isn't any faster on the outside than Mosley was, I'm sorry but he didn't look all that fast last night except when he was throwing combinations, and you need a relatively stationary target to throw combinations the way he does. I mean look at Marquez he is tireless in there ring and a great combination puncher, his offensive almost rivaled Pacquiao's when they fought, but he couldn't get off at all on Floyd because Floyd either landed a stiff jab before he ever good started or danced away. Watch the last half of Pacquiao-Cotto fight when Cotto is moving and PAcquiao can't get off combinations the same way because he had a moving opponent, the same thing happened with Mosley against Cotto as well, but you take a guy like Floyd who won't be moving away because he has to and Manny will not look good offensively at all.
The fact Pac is a southpaw triples his chances alone compared to most of Mayweathers opponents mentioned..
But Taeth is right about Mayweathers defence making ANY output fighter look slow and inaccurate.. He is possibly the best fighter of any era at nullifying his opponents offence..
It's Pac's angles and stance that hold him in decent stead...
The question is whether he can win enough rounds... Like Cotto v Margarito.. Cotto won a lot of rounds simply from landing meaningful counterpuches and having better ring generalship.. Mayweather is the best in the business regarding that. 10 times better than Cotto...
Roach would just need a gameplan to win rounds... The rest after that would be gravy.,
To win against Mayweather, you need speed, enough power to damage him, throw LOAD of combo and enough stamina to last 12 round. Pac brings that to the table and even more. At some point, Mayweather will have to open up and he will get tagged. Moseley did nicely till the 4-5th when he started to run out of gas and to seriously decrease his work rate otherwise he would have had a chance. It won't happen with Pac. PErsonally, I quite like his chances in that duel, I am not counting Mayweather's out but I definitely think Pacman could win that one.
I am officially a Pac nuthugger. I am totally high on the guy. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by zhubins"I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century." hahahaha! wow! i guess there is no point arguing with you then. keep drinking the kool aid.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThe same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMiles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.
It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.
It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.
You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.
Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.
Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.
Mosley was gassed after two against Floyd and I would agree that it was all down to Floyd adjusting had it not been for the Mora performance as well. Mosley looked gassed for half of that too.
Pacquiao doesn't gas, he just keeps that pressure on you. It would be harder to land clean against Floyd, but Floyd isn't superman. Hatton was keeping him semi honest for half the fight and Hatton isn't a patch on Manny. Manny has two hands, is faster, stronger, has better chin. And good point Diz, he's also a southpaw, which Mayweather hasn't always looked the most comfortable against.
He is a monster. He will destroy you if you go to war with him and he will outwork you if you cover up and wait. He's just too good right now.
It very well could be... the last nail to seal the doom for this purported matchup. A fight like this, the Pac performance, could evince a few shakes and and a few rattle-balls for the one in dire effort of keeping the "0", and the fight every fans dreamabout' may very well be as pronounced as ever, a "Maynever"!
There is so much wasted energy in the air in giving PBF Jr the justification, all hollowed to everyone but they, in avoiding a fight with Pac. Everyone needs to just remove the pass they voluntarily provide to coax this guy to prove his perceived greatness in the ring! Where it really holds true!
Come off the imaginary pedestal Floyd Jr., sign and just fight...
I'd go the Roy Jones Jr route to give a "horse's mouth" perspective on this topic.
RJJ on....
Manny Pacquiao vs Floyd Mayweather Latest News
I don't see how this could do anything but entice Floyd more. Pac beat the shit out of Tony like everyone thought he would before everyone got caught up in24-7's and what not. Shane beat the crap out of Margo too but had that discredited after for this reason and that reason. But before the Floyd fight oh boy Shane was gonna this and that. What I'm saying is i thought Floyd would beat Pac before and I still do. Pac is probably a better fighter and a lot funner to watch but floyd's the better boxer and will never fight off of his weight. The amount of people that will now believe Pac can beat him just got larger ..... So that much better for both of them really. If Floyd ever wants his chance to prove how good he is against a guy most will think he can't beat then here it is. Or he could fight Amir khan ha ha ha !!!!
All the points on each side of the conversation are what make this fight so compelling. The answer is only in one place - in the ring.
Both are superb athletes. Floyd's timing, balance and boxing intelligence give him he advantage, is my opinion.
As always, and as one poster has already recognized - a victory over Floyd for Pac would be huge for Pac and for boxing history. A victory over Manny by Mayweather ... ho hum, what did you expect?
That is an indication, if not a measure, of a sort of subconscious recognition by the boxing world that we do take Floyd's greatness for granted. All the conversation about who can beat him, and how he can be beaten, is rather academic.
I'm not saying Floy'd unbeatable. Not at all.
I'm saying that Floyd is the guy. Hope to see him prove it against Pac ... in the ring.
Welcome to the club. :vd:;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesI am officially a Pac nuthugger. I am totally high on the guy. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by zhubins"I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century." hahahaha! wow! i guess there is no point arguing with you then. keep drinking the kool aid.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThe same can be said about Floyds recent opponents too. Marquez at WW? Mosley at 39? Hatton at WW? etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinMiles it seems like you are basing your prediction on Manny's recent fights. Truth be told...while credit has to be given for his wins, his last few fights have been against fighters with either big questions or tailor made for his style...or both. The last truly great, prime fighter Pac fought was Marquez. Juan showed that a skilled counter puncher will give Pac fits. Pac has had to fight primarily one way in his recent fights...because his opponents come to him. He has also had a CLEAR speed advantage in his recent fights. While Pac will be a tremendous challenge for Floyd...Mayweather is much too complete a fighter. Can Manny adjust in a middle of a fight? He hasn't had too. But Floyd has tremendous intelligence to go along with his skill. He can adjust numerous times in a match. You say Floyd cannot pot shot Manny?! Of course he can. How frustrated will Pac get when he doesn't have the incredibly easy target to hit like Margerito? How will Pac react when he gets countered with perfect combos and then misses because Floyd's defense is so good? How will he react when Floyd, who is as good IF NOT A BETTER conditioned athlete than him doesn't tire out because he hasn't had to kill himself to lose weight? No question Floyd would also face challenges. But if i had to put my money against who can adapt in a huge fight better...i would never bet against Mayweather.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesI don't really regard this fight as going up in weight. 150 is closer to 147 than 154 and that means we've pretty much had 3 Pac fights on the trot at WW. Margarito is perhaps the biggest, but I don't think it's such a big deal. So, I regard it as Manny maintaining his WW form rather than this as an serious attempt at 154.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboIt's kind of relative though. Manny is amazing because he is a little man moving up and beating up much bigger guys. If a guy in the same natural weight class as the bigger guy does the same job beating him up as Manny does however it is maybe regarded a little less.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
In relative terms Manny's performance against a much bigger Margarito was amazing. In absolute terms it wasn't much more onesided than Sugar Shanes, and he didn't brutally KO him like Shane did. We all saw how much trouble Shane posed to Floyd. Outside of one big punch, not much.
I think Floyd will win, but I'd love Manny to pull the upset. He is a legend.
Interestingly I think if Manny beats Floyd he will get far more plaudits for it than if Floyd beats Manny. Honestly, even if Floyd does beat Manny most every round, his critics will still point to Pac's leaky defence, the 'fact' that Marquez beat him twice, and that this result 'was what every really knowledgeable person about the sport of boxing knew would happen'....
I regard Pac's win as more impressive because he did it in the purest way. Just boxing. No holding whatsoever and with no limitations in output. Mosley can't throw a hundred punches a round and Manny does it against everyone. To do that round after round is more impressive to me than stopping Margarito in 8. Also, this was a Margarito seemingly in shape and Pac even eased up in the final two rounds. Mosley hits harder than Manny IMO, but he cannot sustain that kind of output along with the power. We saw that with Mosley against Mayweather, a great second round, but afterwards shut out. Mosley at 39 just does not have the footwork and stamina that Manny has. Manny has advantages over Mayweather that Mosley doesn't have, and I also think Manny has the legs that Floyd just doesn't quite have anymore.
It's the output that is the difference for me. Manny won't throw a hundred punches a round against Floyd, but Floyd just cannot let his hands go like Manny and it will tell on the cards. Manny can pepper the arms, the body all night long and you can be sure that if Floyd does open up then Manny will be just as quick in making it tell. Floyd cannot potshot his way to victory against Manny IMO and if he does open up will take a lot of damage along the way.
It doesn't matter that Floyd won't be easy to hit, Pac has the stamina to keep plugging away. You hit the arms, gloves, whatever is available, Floyd has to open up at some stage and Pac is quick enough to make it count when it matters. And he doesn't relent. If an old Mosley can do that to Floyd in the second just imagine what Pac could do. He is quicker than Mosley and wouldn't shoot his load. Mosley hits harder, but Manny throws more and is more accurate.
You talk about getting countered with perfect combos, but Floyd doesn't really throw combos. The most you will ever see is a 3 punch combo. Manny has now shown that even the big WW's cannot move him, and he is going to be put in his place by Floyd? I just don't see it.
Pac has the better footwork, combination punching, power, and possibly even handspeed too. I am sold on Manny Pac and readily admit that he is the greatest fighter of this century. Floyd at nigh on 34 and with fading footwork, is simply not good enough to keep this beast off of him and potshot his way to victory.
Manny will mess up Floyd in a way few would ever expect unless he goes the Clottey route. Manny at these weights is a slicing, wrecking machine. If he doesn't fell you, he will slice you up. It's up to Floyd how he chooses to go out, but I think he would sooner put his fingers in his ears and pretend he doesn't even know who Manny Pacquiao is rather than end his career with defeat.
What Floyd doesn't have is balls. I hope he grows some in time for the third negotiation.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinPac just beat a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater. Floyd will do what Marquez did against Pac...except 100 times more effectively. You think Floyd is going to war?! You think Floyd doesn't have a plan A, B, and C?! Floyd has the legs to dance ALL NIGHT. He is too slick, too skilled, and too smart. Roach has cherry picked perfect guys for Pac the last few fights. Credit to him for handling his job. But Floyd is the most naturally gifted pure boxer in the game. It will be a great fight...but i see Floyd putting on a master class. Pac needs to take the tests and Floyd needs to clear up his legal issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Floyd doesn't want any of Pacquiao....I must say if the fight does happen, I'll be buying it and having a good old time watching Floyd get stomped.
You don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
I have to admit, the way Oscar did it was a lot more impressive tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerYou don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
+1 Oscar doesn't get the respect he deserves.
His competition was amazing and he liked to fight the best.
He kept losing them though.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcore_crash
guys mayweather doesnt wish to fight anyone who poses a real threat to his ZERO!!!!, he never fought cotto, margarito, pac or a better version of mosley when they were all knocking at his door.....he instead fought a limited hatton then a smaller slowed marquez.....stateing that everyone wanted him to fight marquez because marquez is p4p best hahaha.......he fought shane once shane was on his longest inactive period of his career and nearly 40, even then shane nearly ko'd him. he fought a downward oscar with stamina problems and lessing speed.....quite frankly the last 3-4 years he's taken the lesser options, the fights where he's big fav to win......when all around him there where hungry, tough, dangerous challengers......he does a great job of not taking the fights that carry a tough nights works where its close to a 50/50 call......at this stage now even if he fights pac and wins i still hold pac higher in the all tim list
Quote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULL
You can pick holes in Manny's recent fights as well. He fought an already downtrodden Hatton...a Hatton who was already dismantled by Floyd earlier. He fought a past it and weight drained Oscar...the same Oscar who Floyd fought earlier at 154 and was more of a live body. He fought a mentally and physically damaged Cotto...a fighter who never truly recovered form the illegal beat down from Margo. He fought one of the most punch shy fighters in Clottey. And last night he fought a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater...who already is mentally weakened after his whole illegal wraps thing. He did most of this at catch weights...to insure that his already past it opponents would be further weakened. No question he would give Floyd a great fight...but Floyd would do what Marquez did to Pac...except 100 times better. Stop drinking the kool aid.
I can agree with you that. But Hatton was best undefeated at 140 not 147 and ODLH was out of scope for Pacquiao on that time he was a 135lbs out of his league. As far i remember ODLH called and challenged Pac, who is Pacquiao on that time to call an ODLH?.Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinQuote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULL
You can pick holes in Manny's recent fights as well. He fought an already downtrodden Hatton...a Hatton who was already dismantled by Floyd earlier. He fought a past it and weight drained Oscar...the same Oscar who Floyd fought earlier at 154 and was more of a live body. He fought a mentally and physically damaged Cotto...a fighter who never truly recovered form the illegal beat down from Margo. He fought one of the most punch shy fighters in Clottey. And last night he fought a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater...who already is mentally weakened after his whole illegal wraps thing. He did most of this at catch weights...to insure that his already past it opponents would be further weakened. No question he would give Floyd a great fight...but Floyd would do what Marquez did to Pac...except 100 times better. Stop drinking the kool aid.
Margo was best at 147 he was beaten bu Daniel Santos @ 154 couple yrs ago thats hes on welters for almost of his career. As somebody said on other forum a 3 lbs leeway from his last best at 147. Still Marg accepted @ 150 and looks good before the fight.
What ever youd said Floyd Jr never a Cotto, Marga, Clottey.. Pac a 135 ish fighter who fights a catch 147lbr fighter fought IMO far more dangerous than a 38 year old easily stamina drained Mosley, 135 lbr Marquez, or a Baldomir.
Floyd is absulotely the best till now no doubt but the longer the much awaited fight between him and Pac @ 147. I'l give a slight edge over speed & power, activity and age with Pac while technical dept il go with Floyd Jr. 50/50 for both.
Sarcasm?Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyI have to admit, the way Oscar did it was a lot more impressive tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerYou don't think that's an excellent feat as it is. So why doesn't someone try that the way Manny did it, go up that several weight division and fight some of them at a catchweight? Do you think somebody will achieve that in our lifetime?Quote:
Originally Posted by Althugz
Bhop's liver shot fake or not was more impressive? Im just validating mate im almost sure its a joke :)
Both need each other for the same reasons...
Both have detractors who constantly say they beat past it fighters, or people on the down, or weight drained, or inactive, or whatever else... Mayweather did hand pick his opponents of late, but I don't believe any of the more "legitimate" opponents out there would have caused him much more problems....
Skill and potential wise, you cannot take a single thing away from him, regardless of opponent....
And we're find the same thing with Pac... Even his win over Margarito is played down as a fight against someone who was weight drained and previously battered..
Fact is, Pac and Mayweather are in a different league than everyone else.. There is no other opponent out there that will do half the credit to each others legacy and credibility, than a win over the other... Neither will get that respect from beating anyone else...
But the fight has gotta happen soon. If for nothing else, than to keep the haters from immediately justifying the win either way by saying the other has gotten old and slowed etc...
The fact is, Pac is in absolutely sensational form and although physically he may not be what he once was, he more than makes up for that by being in his absolute prime regarding skill and overall boxing smart..
Mayweather, although may have slowed a bit as well and lost a bit of his athleticism, still maintains everything that made him so incredible and unbeatable over the past decade... His incredible intelligence, defence, will power, and ability to have every fighter he's faced pretty much play right into his gameplan...
We wait much longer, and the haters will be ready to stomp out the honour of any victory, with the same nonsense they bring out for ever other opponent Manny or Floyd have faced..
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubinQuote:
Originally Posted by NUCLEAR BULL
You can pick holes in Manny's recent fights as well. He fought an already downtrodden Hatton...a Hatton who was already dismantled by Floyd earlier. He fought a past it and weight drained Oscar...the same Oscar who Floyd fought earlier at 154 and was more of a live body. He fought a mentally and physically damaged Cotto...a fighter who never truly recovered form the illegal beat down from Margo. He fought one of the most punch shy fighters in Clottey. And last night he fought a one dimensional, slow as molasses cheater...who already is mentally weakened after his whole illegal wraps thing. He did most of this at catch weights...to insure that his already past it opponents would be further weakened. No question he would give Floyd a great fight...but Floyd would do what Marquez did to Pac...except 100 times better. Stop drinking the kool aid.
and yet still mayweather does everything he can to not fight pac, atleast pacman fought cotto and margarito while being the much smaller man......look i think mayweathers fav to win the fight if it happens but the fact he's doing all he can to not take the fight shows what type of man he is.......its got to be 80/20 in his favour to win or he deems it to close
I think this fight IF it happens looks a lot like Hatton-PBF. Difference is Pac has better stamina, more power, probably a better chin.
Pac outworks Floyd for a win, or gets timed and walks into a shot that puts him to sleep. Either way should be a great fight.
Personally, I think Pac has PBF's number. Hatton gave Floyd fits for about the first 7 rounds, and Pac is faster and will have a better game plan.
I think the key to beating PBF is to punch at his throat, don't aim for his head. He will either duck into, or get hit in the chest/throat area.