So why did JMM fight Chris John for 30k instead of Pac for 750k in '05?

Ever since JMM's amazing tko of Katsidis quite a few boxing fans wants to see a 3rd fight between Pac and JMM and the word is that Pac is scared of JMM because of 2 tough fights. I don't believe that. IMO, both of them would have finish a trilogy if JMM took the rematch against Pac in early '05 for 750k instead of Chris John in Indonesia for 30k and losing. If they had fought in early '05 and finish up the trilogy in 06, 07 or 08 there wouldn't be talk of a 3rd fight and how one guy is scared of the other. So basically if anyone knows, tell me why did JMM take a huge paycut and fight some unknown in his country for 35k instead of Pac for 750k? Because JMM wants a 3rd fight badly, but the 3rd fight would have happened in '06, 07, or 08 if he just accepted the rematch in early '05. Bad move financially on JMM's part for fighting John for 30k. Instead Pac went on to fight Morales 3 times.

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Early last year, a proposed deal was on the table for a Marquez rematch versus Pacquiao (they had fought to an exciting draw in April 2004). But instead of taking the $750,000 payday -- and more important, the opportunity and exposure it could have brought -- Beristain reportedly demanded $1.5 million (which was the license fee from HBO for both sides to split).

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Marquezes short of the mark on marketability - boxing - ESPN

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Ever since JMM's amazing tko of Katsidis quite a few boxing fans wants to see a 3rd fight between Pac and JMM and the word is that Pac is scared of JMM because of 2 tough fights. I don't believe that. IMO, both of them would have finish a trilogy if JMM took the rematch against Pac in early '05 for 750k instead of Chris John in Indonesia for 30k and losing. If they had fought in early '05 and finish up the trilogy in 06, 07 or 08 there wouldn't be talk of a 3rd fight and how one guy is scared of the other. So basically if anyone knows, tell me why did JMM take a huge paycut and fight some unknown in his country for 35k instead of Pac for 750k? Because JMM wants a 3rd fight badly, but the 3rd fight would have happened in '06, 07, or 08 if he just accepted the rematch in early '05. Bad move financially on JMM's part for fighting John for 30k. Instead Pac went on to fight Morales 3 times.

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Early last year, a proposed deal was on the table for a Marquez rematch versus Pacquiao (they had fought to an exciting draw in April 2004). But instead of taking the $750,000 payday -- and more important, the opportunity and exposure it could have brought -- Beristain reportedly demanded $1.5 million (which was the license fee from HBO for both sides to split).

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Marquezes short of the mark on marketability - boxing - ESPN

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No idea why but all i know is that JMM was screwed against Chris John, and it took him awhile to get his status up again. And its a shame there wasn't an immediate rematch, because JMM probably would of beaten Manny Pacquiao at that point in there careers.

I think it was a matter of him basically going along with what Beristain wanted. Apparently he (Beristain) didn't think the money was as good as it should have been so he pulled a massive cut off your nose to spite your face move.

However if the show was on the other foot the anti-Pacquaio obsessives would no doubt have hammered him nonstop over it. This has been conveniently forgotten by most of them.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Ever since JMM's amazing tko of Katsidis quite a few boxing fans wants to see a 3rd fight between Pac and JMM and the word is that Pac is scared of JMM because of 2 tough fights. I don't believe that. IMO, both of them would have finish a trilogy if JMM took the rematch against Pac in early '05 for 750k instead of Chris John in Indonesia for 30k and losing. If they had fought in early '05 and finish up the trilogy in 06, 07 or 08 there wouldn't be talk of a 3rd fight and how one guy is scared of the other. So basically if anyone knows, tell me why did JMM take a huge paycut and fight some unknown in his country for 35k instead of Pac for 750k? Because JMM wants a 3rd fight badly, but the 3rd fight would have happened in '06, 07, or 08 if he just accepted the rematch in early '05. Bad move financially on JMM's part for fighting John for 30k. Instead Pac went on to fight Morales 3 times.

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Early last year, a proposed deal was on the table for a Marquez rematch versus Pacquiao (they had fought to an exciting draw in April 2004). But instead of taking the $750,000 payday -- and more important, the opportunity and exposure it could have brought -- Beristain reportedly demanded $1.5 million (which was the license fee from HBO for both sides to split).

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Marquezes short of the mark on marketability - boxing - ESPN

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No idea why but all i know is that JMM was screwed against Chris John, and it took him awhile to get his status up again. And its a shame there wasn't an immediate rematch, because JMM probably would of beaten Manny Pacquiao at that point in there careers.

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I agree, but the rematch was offered for a fight in early '05, meaning instead of fighting Morales for the 1st time, Pac would have fought JMM a 2nd time. JMM should have taken it, because he had a very good chance of beating him in '05 in the rematch. People were scratching their heads saying WTF?

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Shaw agrees that passing on the Pacquiao rematch was a huge mistake.
"Absolutely, both for the money and the fact that I believe he would've beat him. And it would've made him a colossal star," he says.

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Shaw agrees with Arum that going to Indonesia was something akin to managerial malpractice.
"I was mortified that they would go over there," he says. "First of all, with no representation, and I was mortified that they would go over there for $30,000. I wouldn't have chased the belt or given up the belt, whatever the case may be."

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yeah, nacho beristain's bonehead move cost marquez a lot of money! beristain felt that since marquez was the champion, he deserved more money than pacquiao whereas they would both get 750K. it was a decision made out of principle on beristain's part and it marquez dearly.

the main reason why marquez accepted a match with chris john in indonesia was the he, marquez, was stripped of his title after the pacquiao fight, and he wanted to get another title. little did he know that to beat chris john in indonesia, you've got to kill him and then you might even just get a draw.

Well I never questioned it, I just questioned why JMM wasn't able to KO Chris John. Who in my opinion is a very average fighter

The moral of the story here kids, is that if you have a big opportunity in any field of business you're in, capitalize on it, never let opportunities slip by.

It still boggles my mind that instead of a 750k payday and fighting on neutral ground in the US, Marquez took a 30k one in a fighter's backyard.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

I think it was a matter of him basically going along with what Beristain wanted. Apparently he (Beristain) didn't think the money was as good as it should have been so he pulled a massive cut off your nose to spite your face move.

However if the show was on the other foot the anti-Pacquaio obsessives would no doubt have hammered him nonstop over it. This has been conveniently forgotten by most of them.

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Yep, people are still saying that Pac waited years for a rematch, because he was scared when 1 was on the table to fight in March of '05, 10 months after they first fought.

So if JMM had taken that fight, the trilogy would have been with JMM and not Morales. And maybe JMM would be making bad beer commercials with Pac for easy income instead of Morales.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbMd4QOsfDA

JMM wanted more money than was put on the table $750k?. JMM came back $1.5 Mil because supposedly Pacquiao was to get $1.4 Mil and JMM said his two belts were worth more. My guess was he and Nacho were thinking he could take Chis John's belt and then come back to the table for more money.

I think anybody complaining Marquez was robbed in the John fight might actually want to go watch it first. There was no way he was robbed. It was a close, hard to score fight that could have gone either way. That's not getting robbed.

Pac is obviously running the show now. If I were him I would price myself out rediculously ;D. Reading these articles, it seems to me JMM is deperate to have the trilogy. I wouldn't be surprise if he accepts a 90/10 purse split deal in favor of Pac for a 147 showdown.

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

It was just a failed negotiation.

Pac or JMM aint scared of fighting anybody. Only idiots would say these two are afriad of fighting when they've already gone at it twice.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

PSL,

WTF do you mean by saying pacquiao "is running the show now"? when did the mythical p4p list become a world title? i think pacquiao and his fans are taking this p4p ranking a little too literal and serious! when hopkins was p4p 1, or when others were number one p4p, you didn't hear them say they're running the show now. and so what if he's no.1 of the "p4p world title", fans could give a fuck about that. they just want to see good fights not some prima donna bragging that "he's in control now", bullshit.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

PSL,

WTF do you mean by saying pacquiao "is running the show now"? when did the mythical p4p list become a world title? i think pacquiao and his fans are taking this p4p ranking a little too literal and serious! when hopkins was p4p 1, or when others were number one p4p, you didn't hear them say they're running the show now. and so what if he's no.1 of the "p4p world title", fans could give a fuck about that. they just want to see good fights not some prima donna bragging that "he's in control now", bullshit.

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PSL wasn't or anyone in this thread was talking about p4p titles or being p4p no. 1. And it's true Pacquiao is running the show now. As in negotiations for fights and conditions will be in his favor and on his terms. That's pretty much "running the show." The other guy that has that kind of power in the boxing game is Mayweather. They are the 2 faces of boxing right at this moment. They have the leverage to dictate terms to other opponents they face.

That's how it is in the game. De la Hoya ran the show when he was around as did Leonard before him and so did Ray Robinson before him also. Whoever has the leverage will use it. Boxing is a business and that's how business works. The same also applies to politics and war.

LOL of course Pacquaio is running the show. He's a bigger draw than JMM and that's all that matters. Bigger draw than Hopkins ever was too fwiw.

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

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Me saying it should be fucking good enough. But here you go. Read it all. You'll see a third party with nothing to do with this confirm it.

Why Marquez-Pacquiao 2 didn't happen

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

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Me saying it should be fucking good enough. But here you go. Read it all. You'll see a third party with nothing to do with this confirm it.

Why Marquez-Pacquiao 2 didn't happen

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Thanks for the link. Sure shed some light on the situation.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

LOL of course Pacquaio is running the show. He's a bigger draw than JMM and that's all that matters. Bigger draw than Hopkins ever was too fwiw.

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Yeah I thought it was funny that milmascaras would argue Pac running the show. That's how it is with the bigger draw and the guy with leverage.

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

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What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

VD no doubt that Beristein is not a good Manager then a Trainer, they could beat Pacquiao for the second time, and it could stop the Pac express if they were really confident to beat this guy they should accept the P750K rather going to Chris Johns turf and losing.

remember prior to Pac-Marquez I, Marquez cant even get a $650K purse without Pacquiao even with his 2 championpionship belts, he defeated Medina and Gainer still on that time Marquez is virtually unknown than Barrera and Morales, Team Marques should take the 750k.

i think the weight will be the main stumbling block in why this fight doesn't happen. Pac will insist 147, Marquez will want 140 or lower.

I personallty think the fight should be at 140.

I would expact pac to win even though I am a marquez fan. Jaun has been in a lot of wars and is getting older.

I think the fight could happen but to make it happen I think Jaun will have to agree to pacquiao's terms which will make the fight unfair in Pac's favour. But why would that surprise anyone?

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The moral of the story here kids, is that if you have a big opportunity in any field of business you're in, capitalize on it, never let opportunities slip by.

It still boggles my mind that instead of a 750k payday and fighting on neutral ground in the US, Marquez took a 30k one in a fighter's backyard.

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Don't forget Beristain turned down a half-million career high payday to face Naz (you can find all the details/facts in my "ridiculous" Naz-Marquez thread. Hope this helps ;))

He's had a reputation as a shit manager for ages.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Very interesting. Not calling you a liar, but do you have any links to confirm that JMM was lowball in the rematch?

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Me saying it should be fucking good enough. But here you go. Read it all. You'll see a third party with nothing to do with this confirm it.

Why Marquez-Pacquiao 2 didn't happen

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That don't explain away Beristain's idiotic managment. Even Gary Shaw is subtely calling him an idiot there.

Shaw agrees with Arum that going to Indonesia was something akin to managerial malpractice.

"I was mortified that they would go over there," he says. "First of all, with no representation, and I was mortified that they would go over there for $30,000. I wouldn't have chased the belt or given up the belt, whatever the case may be."

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

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What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

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The "They", is the crap Bernstain is trying to sell which comes from Marquez' Promoter. Shaw was just trying to get Marquez pants. Since Marquez wouldn't fight Pacquiao, Arum was trying to get Marquez to fight Morales. But the fools went off on their own to Indonesia and would still have lost without point deductions. The negotiation failure was all on Marquez and really had little to do with Pacquiao.

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

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Seems to me Juanita is giving a fuck about it. If Pacquiao says "bow down and beg like a lil' bitch that you are", Juanita will do it in a heartbeat. Yes, right now, he is that desperate. And the other thing, Manny won a flyweight championship for christ sake. I'm sure his larger opponents wouldn't mind climbing down a pound or two for multi-million dollar deal ey?

Common sense compadre. ;)

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by fan johnny

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Bunch of fucking idiots with incomplete facts. Here's the actual facts. Marquez made $650,000 for the first Pacquiao fight. He was promised $1.2 million for the rematch. Which he accepted. Than they try to come at him with $750,000. While Pacquiao was to make close to 2 million. The first fight was on HBO Championship boxing. The second was to be PPV. Yet they only giving him $100,000 more than the first fight? A fight in which he didn't lose. Not to mentioned he was the one holding 2 belts. Fuck that. Marquez was not going to let them get over on him like that. I would of walked in his position too. People calling Marquez greedy are straight morons. Asking for what was promised to you ain't being greedy.

Marquez defended twice more after the rematch didn't happen. He was than stripped by the idiot IBF for not facing his mandatory. Which was the crap fighter known as Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym. Since he was no longer IBF champion. The dumb ass WBA took away his Super Champion status. Leaving Marquez belt less. It was than that he accepted the $30,000 to go to Indonesia and face the regular WBA champion Chris John. Getting robbed was not exactly something he or any fighter can plan for

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Who are you talking about? "They" Marquez was under Top Rank at the time. Nacho was Marquez's adviser. Murad Muhammad was Pacquiao promoter/manager. Pacquiao had a number of advisors and among them was Roach. The "purse" was 1.8 Million split between the parties. i.e. $900K each. Pacquiao ended up with a little over $300K from the purse. If Marquez only ended up with $100K, it went to his people. After that fight Marquez left Top Rank. After the Chris John fight Marquez was with GBP. Perhaps you have read what Pacquiao made from the first fight where people included his Philippine television rights and the like. I read a number of inaccurate figures quoteing Pacquiao earned $750k not the $650K you state. The reason I know this is because I followed some articles when Pacquiao was suing Murad Muhammad for screwing him out of his purse money. Murad Muhammad posted a lot and HBO also posted the purse split which was a first. (sorry don't have the link) I never believed what Murad Muhammad was saying because after that, they split up even though Murad Muhammad had an exclusive contract with Pacquiao.

I watched that fight with Chris John and there was no robbery. Marquez relies on counter punching for his offense. Chris John is an outside boxer and did exactly that beating Marquez in a points fight. It was a horribly boring fight. Marquez didn't do squat to earn a victory. He lost just as he lost to Mayweather.

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What the hell are you talking about is more like it? I ain't talking about there purses in the first fight. I'm talking about why the 2nd fight didn't happen right away. Marquez was promised over a million dollars. They try to short him almost half a million. For a fight that was gonna be on PPV. And he was the champion.

And the John fight was a robbery. If you think those point deductions were legit than you need to go buy some muthafukkin glasses.

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The "They", is the crap Bernstain is trying to sell which comes from Marquez' Promoter. Shaw was just trying to get Marquez pants. Since Marquez wouldn't fight Pacquiao, Arum was trying to get Marquez to fight Morales. But the fools went off on their own to Indonesia and would still have lost without point deductions. The negotiation failure was all on Marquez dd really had little to do with Pacquiao.

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Nacho is known as an honorable man. He does not bullshit around. His words carry more weight than Mr. Yesterday I was lying today Im telling the truth Bob Arum. Only a fool takes Arums word as truth. The man lies so much its damn near language to him. Facts are very clear in this matter. Basking in the glow of a great fight which was Marquez-Pacquiao 1. Arum HBO and the Marquez camp quickly agreed to a rematch where both fighters would get 1.2 million. It was than that the Pacquiao people approached Arum and told him he didnt wish to fight Marquez again so quickly. He instead wanted to face Erik Morales who was coming off a loss in his 3rd fight with Barrera and who many believe was on the decline. Thats when Arum went back on his word and low balled Marquez. Knowing that the proud Marquez was not gonna let himself be lied to and would most likely decline. Which he did.

To find out why JMM fought Chris John offshore in Indonesia for 30K rather than fight Pac for 750K after the first fight, one would be better off going straight to the horse's mouth.

Checking out the post fight interview gives you an insight unto the minds of the horses themselves! (pardon the pun) The interview is the one Larry Merchant conducted for both fighters... and with little imagination, you get a real feel for emotions that goes with the responses that both Pac and JMM were saying regarding a rematch right after their brutal encounter.

Anyone a bit techie (I am not one) or maybe PacStraightLeft, can provide for a viewable version... perhaps

The video tho' that I have viewed was an HBO telecast included in a Filipino broadcast/ABS CBN and had bits with Chino Trinidad in it.

Both men then had interpreters with them handling their responses for the HBO telecast. I zoomed in to the bit were both men were asked about their willingness for a rematch. Pac and JMM both said yes to a rematch but it is in the verbiage where the telltale is.


It goes as follows...

Pac VS JMM Post Fight Interviews

Larry Merchant to Pacquiao: You were supposed to fight Erik Morales if you won this fight, since it’s a draw, do you want to do a rematch?

Manny Pacquiao through an interpreter: There should really be a rematch! so they will know who really is the best between the two of us, who really is the winner between the two of us!

Larry Merchant to Marquez: Do you want a rematch?

Juan Manuel Marquez through an interpreter: Yes. I don’t feel I need a rematch, because I feel I won this fight! But if we need to do it again, I feel I want it, let’s do it!

Curiously, it was JMM who actually said that he did not need a rematch since he felt he'd already won it, while Pac on the other hand was itching to get it on again, just to establish once and for all who really won the fight. At that moment, (IMO), he felt that he was robbed of a win, and he was not alone with that thought, Harold Lederman, providing HBO's unofficial scorecard, had Pacquiao winning, seven rounds to five, 115-110.

Draw your own conclusion, as to mine... my impression is that one was angry (Pac), while the other one was relieved (JMM).

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Originally Posted by jdonaher1

I think anybody complaining Marquez was robbed in the John fight might actually want to go watch it first. There was no way he was robbed. It was a close, hard to score fight that could have gone either way. That's not getting robbed.

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milmascaras1 has obviously never seen the fight. I was hoping somebody would chime in with something actually pertaining to the fight, not just some bogus opinion about how the fight might have gone.

folds,

yes i have seen the fight and it was a total robbery. but i guess that's what happens when you go to asia to fight. you practically have to kill their fighters to get any kind of decision. chris john is an overrated punk. all he did was run from marquez all night. marquez easily and clearly won that fight. if you think john won the fight, you must like slappers cause all john did was stay carefully away from marquez and somehow, surprise, got a hometown decision.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

To find out why JMM fought Chris John offshore in Indonesia for 30K rather than fight Pac for 750K after the first fight, one would be better off going straight to the horse's mouth.

Checking out the post fight interview gives you an insight unto the minds of the horses themselves! (pardon the pun) The interview is the one Larry Merchant conducted for both fighters... and with little imagination, you get a real feel for emotions that goes with the responses that both Pac and JMM were saying regarding a rematch right after their brutal encounter.

Anyone a bit techie (I am not one) or maybe PacStraightLeft, can provide for a viewable version... perhaps

The video tho' that I have viewed was an HBO telecast included in a Filipino broadcast/ABS CBN and had bits with Chino Trinidad in it.

Both men then had interpreters with them handling their responses for the HBO telecast. I zoomed in to the bit were both men were asked about their willingness for a rematch. Pac and JMM both said yes to a rematch but it is in the verbiage where the telltale is.


It goes as follows...

Pac VS JMM Post Fight Interviews

Larry Merchant to Pacquiao: You were supposed to fight Erik Morales if you won this fight, since it’s a draw, do you want to do a rematch?

Manny Pacquiao through an interpreter: There should really be a rematch! so they will know who really is the best between the two of us, who really is the winner between the two of us!

Larry Merchant to Marquez: Do you want a rematch?

Juan Manuel Marquez through an interpreter: Yes. I don’t feel I need a rematch, because I feel I won this fight! But if we need to do it again, I feel I want it, let’s do it!

Curiously, it was JMM who actually said that he did not need a rematch since he felt he'd already won it, while Pac on the other hand was itching to get it on again, just to establish once and for all who really won the fight. At that moment, (IMO), he felt that he was robbed of a win, and he was not alone with that thought, Harold Lederman, providing HBO's unofficial scorecard, had Pacquiao winning, seven rounds to five, 115-110.

Draw your own conclusion, as to mine... my impression is that one was angry (Pac), while the other one was relieved (JMM).

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I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that ;)

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Originally Posted by milmascaras1

who gives a fuck who is "running the show". pacquiao uses this "running the show" crap to get unfair advantages at catchweights. this is bullshit and most of you pactards know it!!! all pacquiao is, is a prima donna who has to have advantages over his opponents. by the way, when has he ever faced a younger, fast, in his prime boxer? he's slowly beginning to get recognized as a damn fraud along with freddie roach and bob arum. deceiving the public with these fantastic wins over weight drained fighters but won't fight fighters like marquez, alexander, bradley or other fast, young fighters.

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Easy, if his opponents think it's unfair. Then don't sign the deal. Simple as.

And Pac is doing the same thing of "running the show" that legends such as De La Hoya and Chavez did. You know weight draining their opponents for the titles. Must have learned it from them.;)

Pacquiao has been on the other end when someone else was "running the show". He had to agree to the terms of ODLH and go up two weight divisions in order to have the chance to fight him. And he was at a disadvantage with regards to the purse split which was understandable. Now that he is THAT MAN, I can't blame him for taking advantage of it.

If his opponents agree to the terms of the Pacquiao camp, then so be it. But the rewards will be several-fold if they manage to defeat him. Manny can't stay on top forever. At some point, he will fade and another boxer will emerge on top and will continue the same behavior. That's the cycle of life in boxing.

Does anyone have a link to the post fight interview??
Because if I remember correctly, the interpreter did not do so good a job.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that ;)

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I understand that Marquez held two belts at that time... but with Pac, there was never a need for him to win belts in order for him to get big fights.

The belts only became important for Pac once he was in the pursuit of attaining the novelty of having the most belts in multi-weight categories. Marquez' belts were meaningless to Pacquiao, and actually, Michael Buffet introduced Pac as the recognized people's featherweight champion (whatever that means).

After the announcement of the draw, Buffet even mentioned that both protagonists keep their own respective belts. By all intents and purposes, Pac was the draw, and "the one" being groomed to further boxing, than it was the other way around. Marquez, if he had won, would have easily taken Pac's place and possibly a match win against Morales', Pac's prospective next opponent, could have cemented his niche in the pay-per-view market.

Likewise, at this point in time, it was Marquez who needed to painstakingly add aggressiveness to his staple counter style fighting, not only to get this fight hitched against hot prospect Pacquiao, but also in order for him to increase marketability for future interests.

Getting back, JMM was the minor star in this affair, only his huge ego made him think otherwise. This ego up to now, is also part of the reason that JMM rubs Pac the wrong way. Pac in a poor attempt at humor, once said that the reason Marquez lost to PBF despite his drinking his own pee was because he didn't eat his poo to go with it! LOL. Obviously the attempt at humor had pangs of viciousness to it that is almost always less revealed in public.

So the crown meant nothing really if any of neither Pac nor JMM had the bigger thing in mind for a juicier progression into the future. The win was the most coveted in order to stake the bigger claim in the PPV arena in the sport.

Hence, a rematch was first and foremost!

That is if you get the drift...

That dumb mother***er interpreting did a bad job.
Marquez immediately said ,"YES i want a rematch, i feel i won; there is no "revenge" in a fight i won scored as a draw" roughly like that.

Same interpreter getting Chavez REALLY upset backstage Chavez/DLH 2 post fight.
For guess what.... misinterpreting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KananKrus

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I don't think you've read this situation right. Marquez was champion. So it's simply a case of - Pac needed a rematch because he came away with NOTHING. Marquez didn't need a rematch because he still held his titles, and believed he won the fight. Simple as that ;)

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I understand that Marquez held two belts at that time... but with Pac, there was never a need for him to win belts in order for him to get big fights.

The belts only became important for Pac once he was in the pursuit of attaining the novelty of having the most belts in multi-weight categories. Marquez' belts were meaningless to Pacquiao, and actually, Michael Buffet introduced Pac as the recognized people's featherweight champion (whatever that means).

After the announcement of the draw, Buffet even mentioned that both protagonists keep their own respective belts. By all intents and purposes, Pac was the draw, and "the one" being groomed to further boxing, than it was the other way around. Marquez, if he had won, would have easily taken Pac's place and possibly a match win against Morales', Pac's prospective next opponent, could have cemented his niche in the pay-per-view market.

Likewise, at this point in time, it was Marquez who needed to painstakingly add aggressiveness to his staple counter style fighting, not only to get this fight hitched against hot prospect Pacquiao, but also in order for him to increase marketability for future interests.

Getting back, JMM was the minor star in this affair, only his huge ego made him think otherwise. This ego up to now, is also part of the reason that JMM rubs Pac the wrong way. Pac in a poor attempt at humor, once said that the reason Marquez lost to PBF despite his drinking his own pee was because he didn't eat his poo to go with it! LOL. Obviously the attempt at humor had pangs of viciousness to it that is almost always less revealed in public.

So the crown meant nothing really if any of neither Pac nor JMM had the bigger thing in mind for a juicier progression into the future. The win was the most coveted in order to stake the bigger claim in the PPV arena in the sport.

Hence, a rematch was first and foremost!

That is if you get the drift...

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Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise;923290[/QUOTE

Shut the fuck up with that nonsense. At that time Pac very much needed the belts. He wasn't a Super Star yet except in the eyes of his fellow flips and his steroid supplier. He was still making his push. He had popularity. But he wasn't such a big star where he no longer needed the belts. That's just idiotic to say

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You and your foul language gets you nowhere with civilized forumers here, when you have nothing of substance to impart, you resort to abusive language. This is an unacceptable behavior you are exhibiting!

And you having not been given notice, is amazing, since somewhere in your bloodline is someone decent to have curbed your abrasive nature. Seems like aggressive behavior is your only attempt at relevance on some topics, your only stab to contributing for the exchange of ideas... put a lid on it!

Somewhere along the line a problem will come your way and not at all times will your computer keys do the fighting for you!

Flip is a racial term, by addressing people with that derogatory term you have crossed the line, therefore you should be sanctioned or better yet, banned! Censorship calls for it, and moderators should only see it fit to do so otherwise, you and your ilk will someday run roughshod of a decent forum like this.