Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?

[ross]

Wlad is better than his brother now but at their best Vitali may have won although he is very robotic he is more sturdy. Wlad is a difficult fighter to beat for any of the greats but I would have him outside of the top ten. Wlad still has a bit more to go.

Any threat and he fights scared.

Against Vitali he'd have tried holding and leaning but against someone his own size who isn't just a punch bag he would wilt.

If Fury fights Wlad next year and wins, does this wipe out any notion of Wlad ever being a top heavy in history?

[Master]

Wlad is better than his brother now but at their best Vitali may have won although he is very robotic he is more sturdy. Wlad is a difficult fighter to beat for any of the greats but I would have him outside of the top ten. Wlad still has a bit more to go.

Any threat and he fights scared.

Against Vitali he'd have tried holding and leaning but against someone his own size who isn't just a punch bag he would wilt.

If Fury fights Wlad next year and wins, does this wipe out any notion of Wlad ever being a top heavy in history?

Wlad was very disappointing against Povetkin but his consistency against the crap that is out there has to be admired. Joe Louis and Holmes had it but it is very difficult to stay motivated and be consistent. This is why I have Wlad that high.

[ross]

Wlad is better than his brother now but at their best Vitali may have won although he is very robotic he is more sturdy. Wlad is a difficult fighter to beat for any of the greats but I would have him outside of the top ten. Wlad still has a bit more to go.

Any threat and he fights scared.

Against Vitali he'd have tried holding and leaning but against someone his own size who isn't just a punch bag he would wilt.

If Fury fights Wlad next year and wins, does this wipe out any notion of Wlad ever being a top heavy in history?

Wlad was very disappointing against Povetkin but his consistency against the crap that is out there has to be admired. Joe Louis and Holmes had it but it is very difficult to stay motivated and be consistent. This is why I have Wlad that high.

I agree with that but its not as impressive as doing that as THE only heavyweight champ.

Lets imagine Vitali didnt exist.

Would Wlad go for unification? How long would he last as unified champ?

[El Kabong]

I agree with that but its not as impressive as doing that as THE only heavyweight champ.

Lets imagine Vitali didnt exist.

Would Wlad go for unification? How long would he last as unified champ?

OK, let's imagine Vitali doesn't exist and Wlad fights everyone he's fought AND everyone Vitali has fought since his comeback.

Do YOU see anyone beating Wlad? I sure as shit don't. Cris Arreola would have been dangerous for a round or 4 but second half of the fight, no way. Briggs is always dangerous for A big punch, but Wlad doesn't give opportunities to land the 1 big punch. Adamek would have been easy, Wlad could beat Sam Peter a third time no problem, Kevin Johnson offered nothing I think Wlad would have had an easier time with him, and Stiverne? Meh...another guy looking for 1 shot.

[ross]

All ifs and buts.

He needs to either fight and beat Vitali or Vitali to retire right now so Wlad has a chance to win his title and defend all of them. While Vitali is around Wlad isnt the best because they refuse to fight each other. I belive Vitali wins but regardless, that unkown is holding back any real regard or legacy because in the future it will always be questioned because of his brother.

[Dark Lord Al]

Wlad is better than his brother now but at their best Vitali may have won although he is very robotic he is more sturdy. Wlad is a difficult fighter to beat for any of the greats but I would have him outside of the top ten. Wlad still has a bit more to go.

Any threat and he fights scared.

Against Vitali he'd have tried holding and leaning but against someone his own size who isn't just a punch bag he would wilt.

If Fury fights Wlad next year and wins, does this wipe out any notion of Wlad ever being a top heavy in history?

Lyles logic is all ifs and buts ? however yours isn't ?

[ross]

Wlad is better than his brother now but at their best Vitali may have won although he is very robotic he is more sturdy. Wlad is a difficult fighter to beat for any of the greats but I would have him outside of the top ten. Wlad still has a bit more to go.

Any threat and he fights scared.

Against Vitali he'd have tried holding and leaning but against someone his own size who isn't just a punch bag he would wilt.

If Fury fights Wlad next year and wins, does this wipe out any notion of Wlad ever being a top heavy in history?

Lyles logic is all ifs and buts ? however yours isn't ?

He was on about what could have been, what could have happened.

Im asking about something that may well happen in the near future.

If the Haye fight actually goes ahead, Fury wins and becomes the biggest name and money opponent for Wlad. Wlad will be pressured and hug and hold and lose.

Would this instantly wipe out any notion that Wlad is such a great fighter?

Even if you dont agree with anything iv just said. If Fury beats Wlad where does that leave Wlad in all time rankings?

[Dark Lord Al]

Wlad is better than his brother now but at their best Vitali may have won although he is very robotic he is more sturdy. Wlad is a difficult fighter to beat for any of the greats but I would have him outside of the top ten. Wlad still has a bit more to go.

Any threat and he fights scared.

Against Vitali he'd have tried holding and leaning but against someone his own size who isn't just a punch bag he would wilt.

If Fury fights Wlad next year and wins, does this wipe out any notion of Wlad ever being a top heavy in history?

Lyles logic is all ifs and buts ? however yours isn't ?

He was on about what could have been, what could have happened.

Im asking about something that may well happen in the near future.

If the Haye fight actually goes ahead, Fury wins and becomes the biggest name and money opponent for Wlad. Wlad will be pressured and hug and hold and lose.

Would this instantly wipe out any notion that Wlad is such a great fighter?

Even if you dont agree with anything iv just said. If Fury beats Wlad where does that leave Wlad in all time rankings?

Well we will have to wait and see who wins the Haye fight , then see if the match is made , then evaluate things from there .
I think fury gets KOED by the first puncher he meets.
but we will have to wait .
If a 37 year old Wlad loses tomorrow it doesn't overshadow his reign as champ , he has been a good champ if not the most exciting.

[DavilaJones]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

[ross]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

[Dark Lord Al]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

[ross]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!

They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.

[DavilaJones]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

[ross]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

Your missing my point.

Wlad isnt the best in the division, Vitali is. Dont believe me, prove me wrong. Oh you cant.

Yes, Wlad has managed to stay undefeated for a few years but hes still not the undisputed best and im not JUST on about having Vitalis belt as well but the uncertainty of who would win if they fought. His dominance can always be disputed because while his brother is active and winning and they dont fight there is always that dispute over who is better.

Vitali has that fight with a known quantity Lennox Lewis and he gave him his hardest fight. Could Wlad have done that? I doubt it.

[armin]

Who knows on the right night he beats any of em, just as he looses to any of em on the wrong night . All these threads are is pure speculation and yeah they're fun but to mock someone cause they possibly put them in the top ten or not even in the top thirty is stupid, its all subjective and unprovable. Even if wlad wasn't allowed to grab and hug as much as he does he's very formidable, people say he's not nimble and shit, he was nimble enough for haye, who only landed a handful punches and people view him as a quick heavy. As for tyson fury, wlad got legitly smoked only by sanders, a big puncher, purity and brewster he dominated till his stamina betrayed him, wlad wouldn't have had to get off the canvas to beat a nevin pajkic because he would have never even made it to the canvas, if that fight ever comes off wlad smokes fury.