Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?

[ross]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

[Dark Lord Al]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

[ross]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!

They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.

[Dark Lord Al]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!

They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.

Both are active so for the past many years he cant be undisputed champ , as for "simple" Vitali should retire ? Im sure Vitali will choose to retire when he feels he wants to , what that has got to do with Wlad's career I have no idea.
Vitali may be Wlad's brother but he makes his own choices im sure.
So your comment " fucking simple " is not simple is it ross ?
Now NVSemin he is simple.

[ross]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!

They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.

Both are active so for the past many years he cant be undisputed champ , as for "simple" Vitali should retire ? Im sure Vitali will choose to retire when he feels he wants to , what that has got to do with Wlad's career I have no idea.
Vitali may be Wlad's brother but he makes his own choices im sure.
So your comment " fucking simple " is not simple is it ross ?
Now NVSemin he is simple.

If Vitali doesnt retire, there is always someone around who would beat Wlad. If they dont ever fight, Wlad can never be remembered as the best of this era.

[Dark Lord Al]

Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?

What has Wlad acomplished?

Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.

Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?

Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!

They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.

Both are active so for the past many years he cant be undisputed champ , as for "simple" Vitali should retire ? Im sure Vitali will choose to retire when he feels he wants to , what that has got to do with Wlad's career I have no idea.
Vitali may be Wlad's brother but he makes his own choices im sure.
So your comment " fucking simple " is not simple is it ross ?
Now NVSemin he is simple.

If Vitali doesnt retire, there is always someone around who would beat Wlad. If they dont ever fight, Wlad can never be remembered as the best of this era.

I don't disagree with that at all. but its silly to say " simple " Vitali retires like its Wlad's choice.

[ross]

So you rank Vitali higher than Wlad?

[DavilaJones]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

[ross]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

Your missing my point.

Wlad isnt the best in the division, Vitali is. Dont believe me, prove me wrong. Oh you cant.

Yes, Wlad has managed to stay undefeated for a few years but hes still not the undisputed best and im not JUST on about having Vitalis belt as well but the uncertainty of who would win if they fought. His dominance can always be disputed because while his brother is active and winning and they dont fight there is always that dispute over who is better.

Vitali has that fight with a known quantity Lennox Lewis and he gave him his hardest fight. Could Wlad have done that? I doubt it.

[Violent Demise]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

Your missing my point.

Wlad isnt the best in the division, Vitali is. Dont believe me, prove me wrong. Oh you cant.

Yes, Wlad has managed to stay undefeated for a few years but hes still not the undisputed best and im not JUST on about having Vitalis belt as well but the uncertainty of who would win if they fought. His dominance can always be disputed because while his brother is active and winning and they dont fight there is always that dispute over who is better.

Vitali has that fight with a known quantity Lennox Lewis and he gave him his hardest fight. Could Wlad have done that? I doubt it.

That right that Vitali landed in the 2nd that badly hurt Lewis would of dropped him if it was Wlad who landed it

[ross]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

Your missing my point.

Wlad isnt the best in the division, Vitali is. Dont believe me, prove me wrong. Oh you cant.

Yes, Wlad has managed to stay undefeated for a few years but hes still not the undisputed best and im not JUST on about having Vitalis belt as well but the uncertainty of who would win if they fought. His dominance can always be disputed because while his brother is active and winning and they dont fight there is always that dispute over who is better.

Vitali has that fight with a known quantity Lennox Lewis and he gave him his hardest fight. Could Wlad have done that? I doubt it.

That right that Vitali landed in the 2nd that badly hurt Lewis would of dropped him if it was Wlad who landed it

You reckon Wlad would have had the balls to stand in punching range without holding and leaning?

Also, conversly. The uppercut that Lewis landed in the 5th would have put Wlad to sleep.

We all know its more important to be tough than hit hard.

[Violent Demise]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

Your missing my point.

Wlad isnt the best in the division, Vitali is. Dont believe me, prove me wrong. Oh you cant.

Yes, Wlad has managed to stay undefeated for a few years but hes still not the undisputed best and im not JUST on about having Vitalis belt as well but the uncertainty of who would win if they fought. His dominance can always be disputed because while his brother is active and winning and they dont fight there is always that dispute over who is better.

Vitali has that fight with a known quantity Lennox Lewis and he gave him his hardest fight. Could Wlad have done that? I doubt it.

That right that Vitali landed in the 2nd that badly hurt Lewis would of dropped him if it was Wlad who landed it

You reckon Wlad would have had the balls to stand in punching range without holding and leaning?

Also, conversly. The uppercut that Lewis landed in the 5th would have put Wlad to sleep.

We all know its more important to be tough than hit hard.

The right came after they had broken up from a clinch. So yeah Wlad would be in a position to catch him with it.

The uppercut in the 5th is irrelevant. Cuz there would be no 5th if it was Wlad who landed in the 2nd

[Spicoli]

I don't rank him in top ten but he is obviously a very skilled guy. Much more than Vitali I believe but I'd much rather watch Vitali fight. Vitalis nerve is a step above. Latley I get the feel if you've seen one Wlad match you've seen them all and while he cannot be faulted for this generation or uncertain talent pool I think he is guilty of 'running up the numbers' in a few recently. I put little stock in quantity over quality or numbers for the sake of numbers.

[DavilaJones]

I would argue that total domination of all his opponents in title defenses is a good accomplishment. You could argue, perhaps successfully too, that his division is weak and because of that he's doing a good job of defending his title.

But if you look at Benny Leonard heck or even Willie Pep better yet what business did Two Ton Tony have being in the ring with Joe Luis?

All I can ask of a champion of a division is to win the fight. I can't ask them to conjure up an almost even match opponent.

Let me propose a question if I may, If the Klitschko brothers fought tooth and nail for their title defenses would people still suggest that the heavyweight division is lacking? We call Manny and Mayweather great (they are mind you) but we recall their hard fights against the likes of Castillo, DLH, Marquez, Morales, Emanual Augustus Burton (personal favourite journeyman :P)

How do we know the boxers they fight are bums and tomato cans if the only gauge we have is their total domination of those boxers?

Your missing my point.

Wlad isnt the best in the division, Vitali is. Dont believe me, prove me wrong. Oh you cant.

Yes, Wlad has managed to stay undefeated for a few years but hes still not the undisputed best and im not JUST on about having Vitalis belt as well but the uncertainty of who would win if they fought. His dominance can always be disputed because while his brother is active and winning and they dont fight there is always that dispute over who is better.

Vitali has that fight with a known quantity Lennox Lewis and he gave him his hardest fight. Could Wlad have done that? I doubt it.

I don't disagree, I too think Vitali is the better one, but my point was more about how we decide how tough his opposition is.