Lucian Bute

[amat]

Did you read my post

I gave all the reasons why I don't think it is going to end early, and I definitely find Miranda to be a better fighter and more durable then everyone save Andrade and that was a shock, the same guy went 12 and took every punch he had cleanly. I just think it will be a decision win for Bute or a late stoppage if anything, that's all. I believe it took 7 full rounds for Pavlik to break him down and no way Bute is going to fight that type of fight.

[Nameless]

Did you read my post

I gave all the reasons why I don't think it is going to end early, and I definitely find Miranda to be a better fighter and more durable then everyone save Andrade and that was a shock, the same guy went 12 and took every punch he had cleanly. I just think it will be a decision win for Bute or a late stoppage if anything, that's all. I believe it took 7 full rounds for Pavlik to break him down and no way Bute is going to fight that type of fight.

Yes I did read it,

The thing is: Bute packs more or less the same kind of power as Pavlik (at least, in the same range). The only difference is that Bute is faster and will land clean more punches than what Pavlik did. Based on that, I doubt Miranda will survive more than 7 rounds. Anyway, the answer in more or less 48 hours

[amat]

We'll see but I think you're using generalizations as reasons here. Bute is a boxer-first while Pavlik was a pure pressure guy. Look at Cotto-Margarito then Margarito-Cotto. Cotto probably landed just as many punches as Mosley but the difference was that Mosley didn't give Margarito the chance to come forward. If Bute chooses to do the smart thing, fight a range fight and outbox Miranda then I just don't see the early knockout coming by way of anything but the one special shot. Pavlik came out and blasted with Miranda, Ward came in and got in his kitchen and bullied him and he only got a decision out of it, Bute won't be fighting as aggressively as either of those guys imo because that's just not his style of fighting.

[Rantcatrat]

We'll see but I think you're using generalizations as reasons here. Bute is a boxer-first while Pavlik was a pure pressure guy. Look at Cotto-Margarito then Margarito-Cotto. Cotto probably landed just as many punches as Mosley but the difference was that Mosley didn't give Margarito the chance to come forward. If Bute chooses to do the smart thing, fight a range fight and outbox Miranda then I just don't see the early knockout coming by way of anything but the one special shot. Pavlik came out and blasted with Miranda, Ward came in and got in his kitchen and bullied him and he only got a decision out of it, Bute won't be fighting as aggressively as either of those guys imo because that's just not his style of fighting.

What's your take on Bute now, Amat?

The guy is as accurate as any with his punches.

[Kev]

We'll see but I think you're using generalizations as reasons here. Bute is a boxer-first while Pavlik was a pure pressure guy. Look at Cotto-Margarito then Margarito-Cotto. Cotto probably landed just as many punches as Mosley but the difference was that Mosley didn't give Margarito the chance to come forward. If Bute chooses to do the smart thing, fight a range fight and outbox Miranda then I just don't see the early knockout coming by way of anything but the one special shot. Pavlik came out and blasted with Miranda, Ward came in and got in his kitchen and bullied him and he only got a decision out of it, Bute won't be fighting as aggressively as either of those guys imo because that's just not his style of fighting.

What's your take on Bute now, Amat?

The guy is as accurate as any with his punches.

I can't speak for Amat, but generally I think it's easier to knock guys out when they are standing in front of you with their hands on their hips.

Miranda is done, his arua has been destroyed and he's an easy nights work for most of the top guys, especially those with boxing skills, which Bute undeniably has.

I must admit I think Carl Froch would have a harder time with Miranda, as he needs to go to war with fighters, and that gives Edison the kind of fight he wants.

But Bute is a very solid fighter no denying that.

I just don't like him because a) he's Canadian, b) Ice and CFH rate him and think he beats Froch, and c) The Ring rates him higher than Andre Ward and Carl Froch even though both have beaten better opposition.

[ICB]

We'll see but I think you're using generalizations as reasons here. Bute is a boxer-first while Pavlik was a pure pressure guy. Look at Cotto-Margarito then Margarito-Cotto. Cotto probably landed just as many punches as Mosley but the difference was that Mosley didn't give Margarito the chance to come forward. If Bute chooses to do the smart thing, fight a range fight and outbox Miranda then I just don't see the early knockout coming by way of anything but the one special shot. Pavlik came out and blasted with Miranda, Ward came in and got in his kitchen and bullied him and he only got a decision out of it, Bute won't be fighting as aggressively as either of those guys imo because that's just not his style of fighting.

What's your take on Bute now, Amat?

The guy is as accurate as any with his punches.

I can't speak for Amat, but generally I think it's easier to knock guys out when they are standing in front of you with their hands on their hips.

Miranda is done, his arua has been destroyed and he's an easy nights work for most of the top guys, especially those with boxing skills, which Bute undeniably has.

I must admit I think Carl Froch would have a harder time with Miranda, as he needs to go to war with fighters, and that gives Edison the kind of fight he wants.

But Bute is a very solid fighter no denying that.

I just don't like him because a) he's Canadian, b) Ice and CFH rate him and think he beats Froch, and c) The Ring rates him higher than Andre Ward and Carl Froch even though both have beaten better opposition.

Bilbo you say you don't like Nonito Donaire, because he only has one good win. And you think his ranking is a joke which i agree on, then why do you think Andre Ward should be number 1 then ?

His only good win is against Mikkel Kessler, who hasn't been fighting good fighters since 2007. Not to mention all the headbutts and ETC, outside of Mikkel Kessler who is there ? Edison Miranda who he went 12 rounds who Lucian Bute destroyed in 3 ?

Yes Mikkel Kessler is better than any fighter on Lucian Bute's resume, but thats only one win. Lucian Bute overall has the better record aswell as being a world champion since 2007.

As for Carl Froch well in my opinion he lost to Andre Dirrell, so not going by the record books and just my opinion, i don't think he's higher than Lucian Bute. But opposition wise he is i agree, but theres more to it than that.

You got too look at skill, title reigns, ETC. And skill wise Carl Froch is probably not even in the top 10 regarding Super Middleweights.

You also have to look at it this way, how would Carl Froch fare against the other top Super Middleweights ? because many people think he's the 2nd worst fighter in this tournament.

But i do agree he has beaten better opposition.

[amat]

Plus the headbutts

That's not even close to the reason Kessler lost that fight to Ward, not even close. Also, for what it's worth I thought Miranda won the second round of that fight with Bute, not that it's worth much.

[Kev]

What's your take on Bute now, Amat?

The guy is as accurate as any with his punches.

I can't speak for Amat, but generally I think it's easier to knock guys out when they are standing in front of you with their hands on their hips.

Miranda is done, his arua has been destroyed and he's an easy nights work for most of the top guys, especially those with boxing skills, which Bute undeniably has.

I must admit I think Carl Froch would have a harder time with Miranda, as he needs to go to war with fighters, and that gives Edison the kind of fight he wants.

But Bute is a very solid fighter no denying that.

I just don't like him because a) he's Canadian, b) Ice and CFH rate him and think he beats Froch, and c) The Ring rates him higher than Andre Ward and Carl Froch even though both have beaten better opposition.

Bilbo you say you don't like Nonito Donaire, because he only has one good win. And you think his ranking is a joke which i agree on, then why do you think Andre Ward should be number 1 then ?

His only good win is against Mikkel Kessler, who hasn't been fighting good fighters since 2007. Not to mention all the headbutts and ETC, outside of Mikkel Kessler who is there ? Edison Miranda who he went 12 rounds who Lucian Bute destroyed in 3 ?

Yes Mikkel Kessler is better than any fighter on Lucian Bute's resume, but thats only one win. Lucian Bute overall has the better record aswell as being a world champion since 2007.

As for Carl Froch well in my opinion he lost to Andre Dirrell, so not going by the record books and just my opinion, i don't think he's higher than Lucian Bute. But opposition wise he is i agree, but theres more to it than that.

You got too look at skill, title reigns, ETC. And skill wise Carl Froch is probably not even in the top 10 regarding Super Middleweights.

You also have to look at it this way, how would Carl Froch fare against the other top Super Middleweights ? because many people think he's the 2nd worst fighter in this tournament.

But i do agree he has beaten better opposition.

Kessler was the Ring champ and as close as the division had to a lineal champ, he was considered the man, and Ward beat the man. He's also beaten Miranda too for what it's worth so all Bute has done that Ward hasn't imo is gone 1-1 with Andrade.

You could argue that Froch lost to Dirrell, but you can make just a legitimate argument that Bute was knocked out by Librado Andrade.

And Dirrell's resume with a win over Artur Abraham, tops by some margin Andrades.

You may not like the fact that Froch got the W against Dirrell, but the fact is wins over Pascal, Taylor and Dirrell are all bigger than any opponent Bute has faced let alone beat.

The only names on Bute's resume are second tier fighters like Bika, Andrade (with whom you could argue he is 1-1) and Berrio.

If he's rated at number 1, it's on potential not acomplishments.

Clearly Froch has beaten the better guys, and Ward beat the man in the division. It shouldn't be an argument imo, Bute should be number 3.

[Eloking]

But Bute is a very solid fighter no denying that.

I just don't like him because a) he's Canadian

Huh?

b) Ice and CFH rate him and think he beats Froch, and c) The Ring rates him higher than Andre Ward and Carl Froch even though both have beaten better opposition.

I think a match between Bute and the winner of the Super Six seem pretty much unavoidable now (and others too while we're at it). Interbox and HBO are interested in that match-up. So either way we'll both be fixed about Bute's value soon.

[CFH]

We'll see but I think you're using generalizations as reasons here. Bute is a boxer-first while Pavlik was a pure pressure guy. Look at Cotto-Margarito then Margarito-Cotto. Cotto probably landed just as many punches as Mosley but the difference was that Mosley didn't give Margarito the chance to come forward. If Bute chooses to do the smart thing, fight a range fight and outbox Miranda then I just don't see the early knockout coming by way of anything but the one special shot. Pavlik came out and blasted with Miranda, Ward came in and got in his kitchen and bullied him and he only got a decision out of it, Bute won't be fighting as aggressively as either of those guys imo because that's just not his style of fighting.

What's your take on Bute now, Amat?

The guy is as accurate as any with his punches.

I can't speak for Amat, but generally I think it's easier to knock guys out when they are standing in front of you with their hands on their hips.

Miranda is done, his arua has been destroyed and he's an easy nights work for most of the top guys, especially those with boxing skills, which Bute undeniably has.

I must admit I think Carl Froch would have a harder time with Miranda, as he needs to go to war with fighters, and that gives Edison the kind of fight he wants.

But Bute is a very solid fighter no denying that.

I just don't like him because a) he's Canadian, b) Ice and CFH rate him and think he beats Froch, and c) The Ring rates him higher than Andre Ward and Carl Froch even though both have beaten better opposition.

Oddly enough, I don't like many Canadian fighters either.

[amat]

Honestly I still feel the same. I think it's a misconception that I am anti-Bute, I've said many many times that he's the second best fighter in the division imo. Like I said, it would take the one special shot. I even predicted a later round stoppage.

The fight really didn't go much differently then I anticipated it was just the chin of Miranda is shit. Previously, with the exception of the second AA fight (and AA has special power, much different then Bute), the only times Miranda had been KO'd was when he was worn down first.

Still though, he doesn't have an inside game which is a bit worrisome especially with Ward in the division. I was hoping to see him tested a bit more with Miranda, he took a couple right hands but nothing extremely clean and now that Pavlik lost it doesn't look like he is going to be tested in the division until the tournament ends or at least the first round ends.