Ortiz v Murray could be on the Khan v Maidana undercard!

[ono]

I like Murray but have been burnt by thinking these undefeated fighters are world class when they are brutally exposed when they get there like Kevin Mitchell and Alex Arthur. (I hope Cleverly does not end the same way.)

who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funny

yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round

he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level

Exactly Murray's resume is so shite ( no fault of his own ) he hasn't even faced anyone near the level of Cook or Gomez.

i dont think you are giving him anywhere near the credit he deserves

he has done everything asked and has never even looked anywhere near loosing

This is where your knowledge of John Murray lets you down mate go check his fight against the Didsbury Ice cream man driver called Al Hamidi. Never looked like loosing you say? Just go check that fight out it's on youtube.

i may watch it dude

is it really a massive dent in his record?

every post i read on here is suggesting John Murray has no chance, well i think it is my knowledge of John Murray that seems to be better than anyone elses because he does have a chance, a very good chance and im looking forward to it

Yeah that must be it.

[skel1983]

I like Murray but have been burnt by thinking these undefeated fighters are world class when they are brutally exposed when they get there like Kevin Mitchell and Alex Arthur. (I hope Cleverly does not end the same way.)

who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funny

yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round

he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level

Exactly Murray's resume is so shite ( no fault of his own ) he hasn't even faced anyone near the level of Cook or Gomez.

i dont think you are giving him anywhere near the credit he deserves

he has done everything asked and has never even looked anywhere near loosing

This is where your knowledge of John Murray lets you down mate go check his fight against the Didsbury Ice cream man driver called Al Hamidi. Never looked like loosing you say? Just go check that fight out it's on youtube.

i may watch it dude

is it really a massive dent in his record?

every post i read on here is suggesting John Murray has no chance, well i think it is my knowledge of John Murray that seems to be better than anyone elses because he does have a chance, a very good chance and im looking forward to it

Yes that must be it, yesterday according to your knowledge he has passed every test and beat everyone and never look like loosing.

[erics44]

I like Murray but have been burnt by thinking these undefeated fighters are world class when they are brutally exposed when they get there like Kevin Mitchell and Alex Arthur. (I hope Cleverly does not end the same way.)

who was arthur brutally exposed by? cook? gomez? ha funny

yes mitchell lost to katsidis, i dont think it ends his world class hopes tho, it was his first big fight and having been caught he tried to out brawl an experienced brawler of the highest brawling league, maybe with a bit more experience at a higher level he might have got through the round

he'll come again and could very well succeed at world level

Exactly Murray's resume is so shite ( no fault of his own ) he hasn't even faced anyone near the level of Cook or Gomez.

i dont think you are giving him anywhere near the credit he deserves

he has done everything asked and has never even looked anywhere near loosing

This is where your knowledge of John Murray lets you down mate go check his fight against the Didsbury Ice cream man driver called Al Hamidi. Never looked like loosing you say? Just go check that fight out it's on youtube.

i may watch it dude

is it really a massive dent in his record?

every post i read on here is suggesting John Murray has no chance, well i think it is my knowledge of John Murray that seems to be better than anyone elses because he does have a chance, a very good chance and im looking forward to it

Yes that must be it, yesterday according to your knowledge he has passed every test and beat everyone and never look like loosing.

i dont think you could be anymore negative about it

yesterday i was right, today im right, john murray has a very good chance at world level

[amat]

I know it's Americans who are called daft but how many types does England have like Eric and Hammer stashed away?

I like John Murray, I haven't seen either of those fights but it's clear he isn't as talented as someone like Ortiz. I think the big thing is the weight too. I mean he would have to bully Ortiz and then make him quit but at 140 Ortiz is so much stronger, it probably just wouldn't happen like that. I think he's a very exciting fighter but the way to build him up and make him a better fighter isn't feeding him to the wolves, it's to accelerate his competition level and then like Skel says, let him get a fight with someone world class in 2 years. Very entertaining fighter to watch, like Skel I just think he doesn't have all the tools.

[erics44]

I know it's Americans who are called daft but how many types does England have like Eric and Hammer stashed away?

I like John Murray, I haven't seen either of those fights but it's clear he isn't as talented as someone like Ortiz. I think the big thing is the weight too. I mean he would have to bully Ortiz and then make him quit but at 140 Ortiz is so much stronger, it probably just wouldn't happen like that. I think he's a very exciting fighter but the way to build him up and make him a better fighter isn't feeding him to the wolves, it's to accelerate his competition level and then like Skel says, let him get a fight with someone world class in 2 years. Very entertaining fighter to watch, like Skel I just think he doesn't have all the tools.

no dude its the brits who are daft

rarely do they back their own, take football as a prime example, going into every world cup and european championships all i ever hear off all the fans is how england have no chance of winning anything and how rubbish they are, its so rare you get an english fan backing their team

all over this forum youve got brits slagging ricky hattons record, and slagging david haye and carl froch, and hating amir khan. If this is how they feel why do they watch boxing? these have been our premier fighters over the last few years

John Murray is a good fighter with a good chance at world level and you as american or whatever would be daft to think murray would come over there and be a walk over for a fighter like ortiz.

Ortiz lost to maidana, who in turn lost to kotelnik, is that really good enough form to say murray would be a walk over?

Murray will step up and when he does i am looking forward to it

[JazMerkin]

I know it's Americans who are called daft but how many types does England have like Eric and Hammer stashed away?

I like John Murray, I haven't seen either of those fights but it's clear he isn't as talented as someone like Ortiz. I think the big thing is the weight too. I mean he would have to bully Ortiz and then make him quit but at 140 Ortiz is so much stronger, it probably just wouldn't happen like that. I think he's a very exciting fighter but the way to build him up and make him a better fighter isn't feeding him to the wolves, it's to accelerate his competition level and then like Skel says, let him get a fight with someone world class in 2 years. Very entertaining fighter to watch, like Skel I just think he doesn't have all the tools.

no dude its the brits who are daft

rarely do they back their own, take football as a prime example, going into every world cup and european championships all i ever hear off all the fans is how england have no chance of winning anything and how rubbish they are, its so rare you get an english fan backing their team

all over this forum youve got brits slagging ricky hattons record, and slagging david haye and carl froch, and hating amir khan. If this is how they feel why do they watch boxing? these have been our premier fighters over the last few years

John Murray is a good fighter with a good chance at world level and you as american or whatever would be daft to think murray would come over there and be a walk over for a fighter like ortiz.

Ortiz lost to maidana, who in turn lost to kotelnik, is that really good enough form to say murray would be a walk over?

Murray will step up and when he does i am looking forward to it

Jesus man, you make Hammer look like Nat Fleischer!

I've bolded only the stupidest parts of your post here, which is hard because there's some right comedy gold in there.

Ortiz losing to Maidana & his loss to Kotelnik has no bearing on anything. I'd take both those guys to beat Murray at 140, Maidana would stop him horribly & Murray's style is tailor made for Kotelnik, even he might stop him. Ortiz is bigger, stronger, faster & more technically skilled. Murray has heart, but that won't get you past the other guy just being all-round physically better.

I love the comment about why watch boxing? Some people actually appreciate the sport of boxing, and will root for fighters they enjoy watching over guys who happen to have been born in the same country. Not to say I don't often favour a Brit, but if I think a fighter is a cock such as Froch, I'm not going to root for him.

As for the comment about nobody thinking we'll win the World Cup

Yeah, we're really restrained and pessimistic every time a big tournament rolls around

[erics44]

I know it's Americans who are called daft but how many types does England have like Eric and Hammer stashed away?

I like John Murray, I haven't seen either of those fights but it's clear he isn't as talented as someone like Ortiz. I think the big thing is the weight too. I mean he would have to bully Ortiz and then make him quit but at 140 Ortiz is so much stronger, it probably just wouldn't happen like that. I think he's a very exciting fighter but the way to build him up and make him a better fighter isn't feeding him to the wolves, it's to accelerate his competition level and then like Skel says, let him get a fight with someone world class in 2 years. Very entertaining fighter to watch, like Skel I just think he doesn't have all the tools.

no dude its the brits who are daft

rarely do they back their own, take football as a prime example, going into every world cup and european championships all i ever hear off all the fans is how england have no chance of winning anything and how rubbish they are, its so rare you get an english fan backing their team

all over this forum youve got brits slagging ricky hattons record, and slagging david haye and carl froch, and hating amir khan. If this is how they feel why do they watch boxing? these have been our premier fighters over the last few years

John Murray is a good fighter with a good chance at world level and you as american or whatever would be daft to think murray would come over there and be a walk over for a fighter like ortiz.

Ortiz lost to maidana, who in turn lost to kotelnik, is that really good enough form to say murray would be a walk over?

Murray will step up and when he does i am looking forward to it

Jesus man, you make Hammer look like Nat Fleischer!

I've bolded only the stupidest parts of your post here, which is hard because there's some right comedy gold in there.

Ortiz losing to Maidana & his loss to Kotelnik has no bearing on anything. I'd take both those guys to beat Murray at 140, Maidana would stop him horribly & Murray's style is tailor made for Kotelnik, even he might stop him. Ortiz is bigger, stronger, faster & more technically skilled. Murray has heart, but that won't get you past the other guy just being all-round physically better.

I love the comment about why watch boxing? Some people actually appreciate the sport of boxing, and will root for fighters they enjoy watching over guys who happen to have been born in the same country. Not to say I don't often favour a Brit, but if I think a fighter is a cock such as Froch, I'm not going to root for him.

As for the comment about nobody thinking we'll win the World Cup

Yeah, we're really restrained and pessimistic every time a big tournament rolls around

you seem to be upset that i have the opinion that murray could beat ortiz?

tell me the truth, before the world cup if someone said to you can england win it what would your reply have been?

[skel1983]

Eric why is he bothered if Ortiz beat Murray? You seem to have another agenda mate, you seem to pissed when a Brit fighter gets dismissed when being talked about at world level

I say how I see it, like Jaz I don't care where there from I am a boxing fan not a British patriot who gets dressed in my Union Jack tux and start claiming we have a gem on our hands when he can't even stop a super featherweight yourkshire man and needs the ref to stop it for him, this sounds like I am hating on John Murray far from it the guy is pure class but I don't talk shit because he is from the Uk.

John Murray is a decent pro whose style will come unstuck at world level especailly against someone like Ortiz, Murray hasn't even fought a top 40 fighter imo, hopefully he signs with Warren get him in with Mitchell and we will see what sort of level he is at.

But like i keep saying when he is struggling to get rid of European bums with 7 defeats and super featherweight English title holders and only stopping them because they are not fireing back and the ref is stepping in, he wasn't hurting these last two lads and they were basic fighters,John Murrays style at world level would only be succesful if he had some pop or some killer body shots but he just hasn't got the power for that, Ortiz and such woud and could out box him but they would also beat him at his own game he is not strong/powerful enough at that level to bully the likes of Ortiz/Marquez/Diaz/Rios.

[erics44]

Eric why is he bothered if Ortiz beat Murray? You seem to have another agenda mate, you seem to pissed when a Brit fighter gets dismissed when being talked about at world level

read back through the thread dude, you said he would loose i said i thought he would win, and you got upset because i said you were wrong

you still seem upset that i think he could win

and all this about liking boxing for boxing, thats all very very nice, well done

[JazMerkin]

I know it's Americans who are called daft but how many types does England have like Eric and Hammer stashed away?

I like John Murray, I haven't seen either of those fights but it's clear he isn't as talented as someone like Ortiz. I think the big thing is the weight too. I mean he would have to bully Ortiz and then make him quit but at 140 Ortiz is so much stronger, it probably just wouldn't happen like that. I think he's a very exciting fighter but the way to build him up and make him a better fighter isn't feeding him to the wolves, it's to accelerate his competition level and then like Skel says, let him get a fight with someone world class in 2 years. Very entertaining fighter to watch, like Skel I just think he doesn't have all the tools.

no dude its the brits who are daft

rarely do they back their own, take football as a prime example, going into every world cup and european championships all i ever hear off all the fans is how england have no chance of winning anything and how rubbish they are, its so rare you get an english fan backing their team

all over this forum youve got brits slagging ricky hattons record, and slagging david haye and carl froch, and hating amir khan. If this is how they feel why do they watch boxing? these have been our premier fighters over the last few years

John Murray is a good fighter with a good chance at world level and you as american or whatever would be daft to think murray would come over there and be a walk over for a fighter like ortiz.

Ortiz lost to maidana, who in turn lost to kotelnik, is that really good enough form to say murray would be a walk over?

Murray will step up and when he does i am looking forward to it

Jesus man, you make Hammer look like Nat Fleischer!

I've bolded only the stupidest parts of your post here, which is hard because there's some right comedy gold in there.

Ortiz losing to Maidana & his loss to Kotelnik has no bearing on anything. I'd take both those guys to beat Murray at 140, Maidana would stop him horribly & Murray's style is tailor made for Kotelnik, even he might stop him. Ortiz is bigger, stronger, faster & more technically skilled. Murray has heart, but that won't get you past the other guy just being all-round physically better.

I love the comment about why watch boxing? Some people actually appreciate the sport of boxing, and will root for fighters they enjoy watching over guys who happen to have been born in the same country. Not to say I don't often favour a Brit, but if I think a fighter is a cock such as Froch, I'm not going to root for him.

As for the comment about nobody thinking we'll win the World Cup

Yeah, we're really restrained and pessimistic every time a big tournament rolls around

you seem to be upset that i have the opinion that murray could beat ortiz?

tell me the truth, before the world cup if someone said to you can england win it what would your reply have been?

Mate, your post couldn't upset me, I just think you're our new comic foil here, spouting silly opinions with half-baked justfications so I thought I'd join in the debate. Can you name some kind of skills/attributes that Murray has over Ortiz to beat him? As I said Ortiz is bigger, stronger, faster & more skilled.

People did say to me before the most recent World Cup that England could win it & I disagreed but that was due to the quality of players and that I feel the likes of Terry, Lampard & Gerrard have been over-hyped in the EPL. If someone had said to me in 2002 that team could win the World Cup, I would have agreed because the team was more balanced imo & the opposition was on paper weaker. Amazingly it's not all a big anti-Brit conspiracy

[skel1983]

Eric why is he bothered if Ortiz beat Murray? You seem to have another agenda mate, you seem to pissed when a Brit fighter gets dismissed when being talked about at world level

read back through the thread dude, you said he would loose i said i thought he would win, and you got upset because i said you were wrong

you still seem upset that i think he could win

and all this about liking boxing for boxing, thats all very very nice, well done

Upset lol

Mate this is what this place is about opinions and debates, but when your arguement is as weak as yours, the debate like this thread has gone on and on that is all mate, nothing personal.

[erics44]

Mate, your post couldn't upset me, I just think you're our new comic foil here, spouting silly opinions with half-baked justfications so I thought I'd join in the debate. Can you name some kind of skills/attributes that Murray has over Ortiz to beat him? As I said Ortiz is bigger, stronger, faster & more skilled.

People did say to me before the most recent World Cup that England could win it & I disagreed but that was due to the quality of players and that I feel the likes of Terry, Lampard & Gerrard have been over-hyped in the EPL. If someone had said to me in 2002 that team could win the World Cup, I would have agreed because the team was more balanced imo & the opposition was on paper weaker. Amazingly it's not all a big anti-Brit conspiracy

ooo you sound tough, think you are too hard to crack do you?

Murray is a very determind hard man, ortiz heart has been broken before, i think murray could do it again

it was easy to say before the world cup england had no chance or england dont have the players, and to win a world cup you need a lot of luck and a good cumble of the cake, so when it doesnt all go right its an easy easy call

[erics44]

Eric why is he bothered if Ortiz beat Murray? You seem to have another agenda mate, you seem to pissed when a Brit fighter gets dismissed when being talked about at world level

read back through the thread dude, you said he would loose i said i thought he would win, and you got upset because i said you were wrong

you still seem upset that i think he could win

and all this about liking boxing for boxing, thats all very very nice, well done

Upset lol

Mate this is what this place is about opinions and debates, but when your arguement is as weak as yours, the debate like this thread has gone on and on that is all mate, nothing personal.

if you say you wasnt upset then you mustnt have been upset

"but when your arguement is as weak as yours" doesnt sound like someone who is happy with the way the conversation has gone

i think your argument is weak, think about that?

[JazMerkin]

Mate, your post couldn't upset me, I just think you're our new comic foil here, spouting silly opinions with half-baked justfications so I thought I'd join in the debate. Can you name some kind of skills/attributes that Murray has over Ortiz to beat him? As I said Ortiz is bigger, stronger, faster & more skilled.

People did say to me before the most recent World Cup that England could win it & I disagreed but that was due to the quality of players and that I feel the likes of Terry, Lampard & Gerrard have been over-hyped in the EPL. If someone had said to me in 2002 that team could win the World Cup, I would have agreed because the team was more balanced imo & the opposition was on paper weaker. Amazingly it's not all a big anti-Brit conspiracy

ooo you sound tough, think you are too hard to crack do you?

Murray is a very determind hard man, ortiz heart has been broken before, i think murray could do it again

it was easy to say before the world cup england had no chance or england dont have the players, and to win a world cup you need a lot of luck and a good cumble of the cake, so when it doesnt all go right its an easy easy call

Yes I've clearly been working hard to cultivate an image as some hardman haven't I?

Ortiz got broken by the hardest puncher at 140lbs, Murray hasn't shown that he can really crack at 135 & that's not even against stellar opposition.

No, the reason that it was easy to say that England wouldn't win the World Cup was because their top players had failed to perform on the international stage each time they were called upon, while other sides were just better. I'll admit that I didn't see Spain winning it because I felt that they were a bit one-dimensional, so I was clearly wrong there.

[JazMerkin]

Eric why is he bothered if Ortiz beat Murray? You seem to have another agenda mate, you seem to pissed when a Brit fighter gets dismissed when being talked about at world level

read back through the thread dude, you said he would loose i said i thought he would win, and you got upset because i said you were wrong

you still seem upset that i think he could win

and all this about liking boxing for boxing, thats all very very nice, well done

Upset lol

Mate this is what this place is about opinions and debates, but when your arguement is as weak as yours, the debate like this thread has gone on and on that is all mate, nothing personal.

if you say you wasnt upset then you mustnt have been upset

"but when your arguement is as weak as yours" doesnt sound like someone who is happy with the way the conversation has gone

i think your argument is weak, think about that?

Mate, I'm really not trying to take the piss, but how old are you?

This is how debates go. There's no malice in what me & Skel are saying, if anything seems a bit harsh, it's just us taking the piss a bit which we do on this forum. None of us get upset by any of this