J.M. Marquez vs Mosely at 147

[Majesty]

Mosley beats Marquez, but Marquez gives Pacquiao a tougher fight than Mosley .

I think so too, boxing is really strange that way.

I just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.

I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.

Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.

Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.

Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.

I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.

And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.

Do people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.

See I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"

But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.

If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.

I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.

But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.

I think this is a ridiculous viewpoint frankly. Manny has had to move to where the challenges are so why not Marquez? When Manny fought Miguel Cotto, he negotiated a catchweight where Cotto gave up one single pound from his ideal fighting weight, and the haters wents nuts and screamed that Manny was forcing his opponents to lose on the scales.

Yet for Marquez they expect Manny to move down two divisions to give J Manuel the best possible chance and don't see the sheer hypocrisy of such a position.

Manny is fighting at welterweight now. He's the guy with holding all the cards so why in the world should he move back down to lightweight or light welter to give Marquez a rematch with a better chance? People literally hate on Manny for asking Cotto to drop a single pound, and believe he is weight draining his opponents, yet because he won't drop two entire divisions to face Marquez in a rematch they see him as forcing Marquez up to a weight where he is too heavy, thus losing on the scales again.

He cannot win. You expect Manny to be a yoyo who goes up and down the weight classes fighting opponents at the best weight for them.

He is the champion and the guy that everybody wants to beat. They want him they have to go to where he is.

Manny had to over-eat to make 144, so he doesn't have to be a full welterweight, they use this to hype his fights like he can barely even make weight that high, yet if he is asked to move down in weight its a stretch for him? How does that make sense? All of his fights at welterweight, the astounding hype about them is that he barely makes 144, and that he not a welterweight, but if you say "why not a fight at 140 or even 138" its a stretch too far and a disadvantage for Pacquiao? How is that? he can move down with no problem while not disadvantaging himself and if anything he'd be fighting people more his size instead of the 'more dangerous bigger guys' as they are hyped. He can obviously make that weight, to say that Marquez "has" to move up to get a fight with him otherwise he is at a disadvantage is basically like saying that being on even terms with Marquez is a disadvantage for him.

THAT is not such a ridiculous notion, this is why he will not fight Marquez on even terms, because he is playing the same game other boxers are criticized for by wanting to make a fighter like Marquez come up to fight him instead of fighting him on even terms. If he is the "best" as people say he is for the love of challenge and number 1 p4p then shouldnt he be able to fight Marquez at any weight he can make without a disadvantage? You can't tell me Pacquiao can't make 138 or at LEAST 140 and be weight drained. it's just the simple fact that on even terms, Marquez is a bigger problem for Pacquiao and he doesn't want to take that risk given the position he's in and the demands he can make. That's just how it is. And he should be criticized like the rest of the boxers that have been in his position and been guilty of the same things.

[Kev]

Mosley beats Marquez, but Marquez gives Pacquiao a tougher fight than Mosley .

I think so too, boxing is really strange that way.

I just don't get this at all. How people can think Mosley is not finished enought to beat J M Marquez, but is too shot to beat Manny is such a weird contradiction.

I think BOTH fighters are a legitimate test for Manny.

Manny is far more to Mosley's liking than Floyd and Mora. I think Mosley would always have had trouble with Sergio Mora, and I don't think any version of Mosley beat Floyd either.

Pacquaio Mosley will be a very entertaining fight.

Marquez may yet get another shot if he keeps winning. But to me Marquez is scraping past guys like Diaz, Katsidis and Casamayor in wars, guys that Mosley would just destroy.

I think Marquez looks a much easier propositon for Pacquaio now at 147 than Mosley does.

And Manny sure as hell isn't going to move down another weight class to help Marquez out, and why should he? Mosley at 147 is a better fight than Marquez at 147 imo.

Do people disagree with this? Mosley is 'comfortable' at welterweight (I dont think he struggles to get there, but he does dry himself up alot). Marquez isn't. JMM is a boxer getting old and obviously can't/doesn't want to cut weight anymore, so he's fighting in higher divisions while chasing Pac.

See I think the problem is people compare "Well Mosley is a better fight at 147 for Pacquiao than Marquez"

But the real thing is, Pacquiao would ONLY fight Marquez if it was at 147, even though he can easily make 140 and probably make 138 too since he barely makes 147 and usually many pounds under it on fight day. So basically Pacquiao isn't going to fight Marquez unless he has an advantage of some type.

If the question was "Marquez at 138" or "Mosley at 147" who gives Pacquiao a tougher fight, then Marquez would be the obvious answer and fight choice. But Manny doesn't want any part of Marquez south of 147. thus why people are comparing Marquez at 147 and say if Pacquiao MUST fight at 147, then Mosley will give him a better challenge then Marquez would by moving up and putting himself at such a disadvantage for the fight.

I think that's the initial point people want to get to, but initially lose it so they say "Mosley would beat Marquez at 147 so he is better for Manny at 147" ignoring the whole styles make fights thing, when what all this really comes down to, is the weight. Manny doesn't want Marquez at any class south of 147. So if it comes down to that, then yes Mosley is the better fight because Mosley won't be entering the fight at a disadvantage or outside of his weight class.

But in terms of WHO would give Pacquiao a tougher fight, Marquez would always give him a tougher fight than Mosley would, but Pacquiao has to get the gull to want to fight him at 138 for that to happen, and he doesn't. So Mosley is what people shall get.

I think this is a ridiculous viewpoint frankly. Manny has had to move to where the challenges are so why not Marquez? When Manny fought Miguel Cotto, he negotiated a catchweight where Cotto gave up one single pound from his ideal fighting weight, and the haters wents nuts and screamed that Manny was forcing his opponents to lose on the scales.

Yet for Marquez they expect Manny to move down two divisions to give J Manuel the best possible chance and don't see the sheer hypocrisy of such a position.

Manny is fighting at welterweight now. He's the guy with holding all the cards so why in the world should he move back down to lightweight or light welter to give Marquez a rematch with a better chance? People literally hate on Manny for asking Cotto to drop a single pound, and believe he is weight draining his opponents, yet because he won't drop two entire divisions to face Marquez in a rematch they see him as forcing Marquez up to a weight where he is too heavy, thus losing on the scales again.

He cannot win. You expect Manny to be a yoyo who goes up and down the weight classes fighting opponents at the best weight for them.

He is the champion and the guy that everybody wants to beat. They want him they have to go to where he is.

Manny had to over-eat to make 144, so he doesn't have to be a full welterweight, they use this to hype his fights like he can barely even make weight that high, yet if he is asked to move down in weight its a stretch for him? How does that make sense? All of his fights at welterweight, the astounding hype about them is that he barely makes 144, and that he not a welterweight, but if you say "why not a fight at 140 or even 138" its a stretch too far and a disadvantage for Pacquiao? How is that? he can move down with no problem while not disadvantaging himself and if anything he'd be fighting people more his size instead of the 'more dangerous bigger guys' as they are hyped. He can obviously make that weight, to say that Marquez "has" to move up to get a fight with him otherwise he is at a disadvantage is basically like saying that being on even terms with Marquez is a disadvantage for him.

THAT is not such a ridiculous notion, this is why he will not fight Marquez on even terms, because he is playing the same game other boxers are criticized for by wanting to make a fighter like Marquez come up to fight him instead of fighting him on even terms. If he is the "best" as people say he is for the love of challenge and number 1 p4p then shouldnt he be able to fight Marquez at any weight he can make without a disadvantage? You can't tell me Pacquiao can't make 138 or at LEAST 140 and be weight drained. it's just the simple fact that on even terms, Marquez is a bigger problem for Pacquiao and he doesn't want to take that risk given the position he's in and the demands he can make. That's just how it is. And he should be criticized like the rest of the boxers that have been in his position and been guilty of the same things.

Well if Manny is a natural 138 lber and has no advantage being heavier why can't Marquez fight him at 147, seeing as they are both the same size and all?

It is completely illogical to say that Manny would not be disadvantaged in any way by moving down two weight classes whilst saying it is unfair for Marquez to have to fight him at 147 where he will be disadvantaged. How will he be disadvantaged at 147 if Manny gains nothing from the extra weight?

I think it's clear to see that Manny has looked sensational since moving to welter and that this is where he performs best.

[Ant Live]

MOsley vs JMM today at 147?
Mosley! The weight advantage will be to much. Skill vs skills, JMM will win that "argument". But Mosley is to smart to not us his advantage on a much smaller opponent. Besides Mosley has a good chin. Always did. And if Diaz can't stand for 8 or 9 rounds, Mosley can't have that puncher chance, even if he gets outbox for 12 rounds. And we all know that JMM gets hit and touch the canvas quite a few times.

Mosley vs JMM in the prime at any weight(catchweight) 140?
Mosley! JMM skills is superb but Mosley in his prime was a beast himself. Mosley in his prime was KOing people like that was the only way to win. Mosley KO percentage in his first 40 fights(before Forrest) was like 90%. JMM would have just been another victim.

Better fight for Pacman?
Tough to choose. Cause right now, at any weight, Manny would ko JMM. Just the simply knock downs would change to KNOCKED OUT! That's at 140 or even worst, 147. Not saying that it would be any easy fight. JMM maybe the only fighter that use counter punching against Manny effectively. Effectively cause Cotto was on the run and in survival mode. And IMO, that's the style thats gives Manny more trouble then a striaght forward fighter. On the other hand, Mosley chin can stand longer then JMM. And Mosley was and always will be willing to trade punches if someone is willing to trade with him. Problem is, Manny don't trade. Manny hit, cut and angle, bounce in and out, regroup and repeat. But he gives his opponents a chance to hit him if they are willing to get hit. Mosley is that fighter! And if Mosley hit Manny, and Manny tap his gloves and throw his arms in the air, get ready for Mosley to get the ko with a trading Manny that want to get his hit back.
BTW Mosley by KO rd 8 or 9

[InTheNeutralCorner]

Manny had to over-eat to make 144, so he doesn't have to be a full welterweight, they use this to hype his fights like he can barely even make weight that high, yet if he is asked to move down in weight its a stretch for him? How does that make sense? All of his fights at welterweight, the astounding hype about them is that he barely makes 144, and that he not a welterweight, but if you say "why not a fight at 140 or even 138" its a stretch too far and a disadvantage for Pacquiao? How is that? he can move down with no problem while not disadvantaging himself and if anything he'd be fighting people more his size instead of the 'more dangerous bigger guys' as they are hyped. He can obviously make that weight, to say that Marquez "has" to move up to get a fight with him otherwise he is at a disadvantage is basically like saying that being on even terms with Marquez is a disadvantage for him.

THAT is not such a ridiculous notion, this is why he will not fight Marquez on even terms, because he is playing the same game other boxers are criticized for by wanting to make a fighter like Marquez come up to fight him instead of fighting him on even terms. If he is the "best" as people say he is for the love of challenge and number 1 p4p then shouldnt he be able to fight Marquez at any weight he can make without a disadvantage? You can't tell me Pacquiao can't make 138 or at LEAST 140 and be weight drained. it's just the simple fact that on even terms, Marquez is a bigger problem for Pacquiao and he doesn't want to take that risk given the position he's in and the demands he can make. That's just how it is. And he should be criticized like the rest of the boxers that have been in his position and been guilty of the same things.

Did you not think that Manny having to over-eat to make 144 is just to hyped the fight as what you said? Manny hasn't weighted at 140 and below since his fight with Hatton on May 2009.

Wasn't that what Pac had been doing, going up in weight to challenge heavier fighters rather than have them go down to his weight class? (I almost can hear someone again criticizing Manny for weight draining his opponent by asking him to loss 1 pound.) If Manny can do it and JMM is better than Manny, then he should be able to do it, too.

It's not the end of th world for JMM. He will have a chance after Pacquiao-Mosley but he will be able to make his chance better by fighting a worthy opponent at 140.

[:::PSL:::]

Manny had to over-eat to make 144, so he doesn't have to be a full welterweight, they use this to hype his fights like he can barely even make weight that high, yet if he is asked to move down in weight its a stretch for him? How does that make sense? All of his fights at welterweight, the astounding hype about them is that he barely makes 144, and that he not a welterweight, but if you say "why not a fight at 140 or even 138" its a stretch too far and a disadvantage for Pacquiao? How is that? he can move down with no problem while not disadvantaging himself and if anything he'd be fighting people more his size instead of the 'more dangerous bigger guys' as they are hyped. He can obviously make that weight, to say that Marquez "has" to move up to get a fight with him otherwise he is at a disadvantage is basically like saying that being on even terms with Marquez is a disadvantage for him.

THAT is not such a ridiculous notion, this is why he will not fight Marquez on even terms, because he is playing the same game other boxers are criticized for by wanting to make a fighter like Marquez come up to fight him instead of fighting him on even terms. If he is the "best" as people say he is for the love of challenge and number 1 p4p then shouldnt he be able to fight Marquez at any weight he can make without a disadvantage? You can't tell me Pacquiao can't make 138 or at LEAST 140 and be weight drained. it's just the simple fact that on even terms, Marquez is a bigger problem for Pacquiao and he doesn't want to take that risk given the position he's in and the demands he can make. That's just how it is. And he should be criticized like the rest of the boxers that have been in his position and been guilty of the same things.

Did you not think that Manny having to over-eat to make 144 is just to hyped the fight as what you said? Manny hasn't weighted at 140 and below since his fight with Hatton on May 2009.

Wasn't that what Pac had been doing, going up in weight to challenge heavier fighters rather than have them go down to his weight class? (I almost can hear someone again criticizing Manny for weight draining his opponent by asking him to loss 1 pound.) If Manny can do it and JMM is better than Manny, then he should be able to do it, too.

It's not the end of th world for JMM. He will have a chance after Pacquiao-Mosley but he will be able to make his chance better by fighting a worthy opponent at 140.

...and that's why JMM needs to prove he's a worthy 135+ fighter by fighting Khan or Berto. He doesn't need beat them. I just wanna see him to be atleast competitive against either of those guys. If he achieved that, imo he'll have the strongest case to fight Pac at 147 and ask whatever purse bid he wants. Wearing a t-shirt that says "I BEAT PACQUIAO TWICE" don't cut it.