Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
JMM is now starting to aged his piss on an oak barrel for the fight... ;D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
JMM is now starting to aged his piss on an oak barrel for the fight... ;D
When I wrote my earlier post about finding no logical reason with regards to this fight happening due to Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez not belonging to the same weight division, I did not put into consideration their weight on fight night (Thanks IamInuit for giving me the idea).
Then I came across this information:
Though Marquez would have to go up to Welterweight (2 weight classses up) to challenge, Pacquiao would outweigh Marquez by no more than around 3 lbs on the night of the fight; Marquez rehydrated to 145 lbs vs. Katsidis, while Pacquiao rehydrated to 148 lbs vs. Margarito.
Does anyone know Manny's weight on fight night against Mosley?
If this information is true, then we have a fair fight. Marquez would just need to dehydrate 1 lb whereas Pacquiao needs to lose 4 lbs.
Wait a minute, it's Manny who is at a disadvantage. ;D
The way I look at it, Oscar was wrong to insist on a CW trying to lure up the smaller guy. I don't blame Manny for that, he didn't really have any bargaining chips. But Oscar did give up those crucial pounds. By contrast with Manny in a similar situation now with Marquez, he is has all the bargaining chips, so is in the wrong. But to make it worse, he isn't willing to give more than a pound back to appease the fans who everyone knows will criticise the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogActually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Since I've been here the argument is this:
It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.
It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.
You don't see the hypocrisy in this? ;)
I believe it was wrong for the Cotto fight to be at a CW and said as much, but it was only a few pounds and so it wasn't a massive thing, significant but far less than what Manny/Marquez is. But I don't believe Cotto should have even conceded what he did as Manny had already proven he could fight at WW. I think it is Manny's best recent win, but the CW's only detract. Cotto could fight at WW, so could Manny, it should have been there.
The Oscar/Hops fight isn't something I agree with either. I hate CW's of this nature. Either Hops comes down or DLH goes up and just allows Hops to come in at what he wants. Still, like with Cotto/Pac it is still marginal and not huge which is what Pac/DLH and Pac/Marquez are.
Now this is consistent. If it's wrong for Pac to fight at catchweights so it is wrong for others. I don't believe in excusing fighters for the same behavior while demonizing others for it. At least you agreed with me and didn't attempt to excuse and praise Oscar for weight draining a 40 year old man for his lineal title.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThe way I look at it, Oscar was wrong to insist on a CW trying to lure up the smaller guy. I don't blame Manny for that, he didn't really have any bargaining chips. But Oscar did give up those crucial pounds. By contrast with Manny in a similar situation now with Marquez, he is has all the bargaining chips, so is in the wrong. But to make it worse, he isn't willing to give more than a pound back to appease the fans who everyone knows will criticise the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogActually no, the argument isn't consistent. You can't pick and choose who to give credit to on the catchweights to some and then discredit it for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar did move down a division. 150 is within the JMW limits and WW is the next step down. Sure, the Forbes fight 3 pounds above that, but Oscar had been at JMW for many years prior and coming back down to WW proper was clearly a BIG sacrifice. He made that compromise and got his Manny fight. Manny compromised by jumping a long way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogFirst off, Oscar didn't move down 1 entire division. He came down from 3 pounds from the Forbes fight which ironically was at a catchweight of 150, while he made a guy that had basically fought his entire career below 130 to jump up another 2 weight classes after moving up from 1 already to fight him. Yeah that's definitely gentlemanly of Oscar.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by milesHaha, 1 pound! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogNo it's 144. He's sacrificing 1 pound from his last fight just like Cotto sacrificed 1 pound from his last fight. Let's say if JMM pulls off the upset, would you give JMM credit or would you discredit that win? Just asking out of curiosity.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I would be totally amazed if he were to win.
Many of us thought Oscar would beat Pac because he was just too big. But Oscar actually went down an entire division to make the fight happen and Pac as brave as he was accepted the challenge and went up two.
Here the big difference is that Manny has grown into the weight, but is only willing to sacrifice a few hundred grammes. Marquez meanwhile is manfully upping two entire divisions.
So in terms of credit I would firstly like to say that Manny has diminished any credit if he gets the win by being such a fascist. Oscar was a complete gentleman in coming down, but Pac has obviously allowed his politics to influence his boxing and he now likes to dictate. If Marquez can somehow overcome this massive weight hurdle then he deserves full credit because he jumped through all the hoops to get to his prize.
144 is horrible really.
I just find it funny that people say pacquiao does not deserve any credit for beating Cotto even though Cotto came in 1 pound less than his previous fight. Whereas JMM negotiated Pac to come in 1 pound lighter than his previous fight and if he does beat Pac, he deserves all the credit?
Like I said, let's have some consistency shall we?;)
The Oscar fight proved that Manny could fight at the 147 limit and that is why critics say that he should have done the same to face Cotto.
I have already explained why Manny loses the chance to gain massive credit if he beats Marquez at 144. He has made no sacrifice to give the fans a more equal playing field. Even Oscar, who we all criticised gave up something, but Manny gives up nothing. Meanwhile Marquez is being asked to jump all the hurdles.
Of course Marquez deserves the credit if he wins and of course Manny should be criticised right now for making the fight at a 144 CW. You don't expect a smaller guy to jump all the hurdles while you jump through none. That isn't credit worthy. Marquez has NO track record at WW. Manny prior to Cotto did, whence criticism of the CW.
The argument is pretty consistent.
Since I've been here the argument is this:
It was wrong for Pac to fight Oscar at 147. Whereas it was right for Oscar to fight 40 year old Hopkins at 156 for his MW title.
It was wrong for Pac to fight and get credit for Cotto at 145 (1 pound less than his last fight). Whereas it will be right for JMM to fight Pac at 144 (1 pound less than his last fight) and deserves all the credit if he wins.
You don't see the hypocrisy in this? ;)
I believe it was wrong for the Cotto fight to be at a CW and said as much, but it was only a few pounds and so it wasn't a massive thing, significant but far less than what Manny/Marquez is. But I don't believe Cotto should have even conceded what he did as Manny had already proven he could fight at WW. I think it is Manny's best recent win, but the CW's only detract. Cotto could fight at WW, so could Manny, it should have been there.
The Oscar/Hops fight isn't something I agree with either. I hate CW's of this nature. Either Hops comes down or DLH goes up and just allows Hops to come in at what he wants. Still, like with Cotto/Pac it is still marginal and not huge which is what Pac/DLH and Pac/Marquez are.
Personally I think Pac could make 135. He doesn't really go above 145 in weight even after the weigh in. If he was cutting weight I don't think 135 would hurt him much at all. 140 IMO would be the ideal place for Pac to be at his best right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMASUX
And for the record I think Marquez has a better chance than anyone else who has fought Pac recently even out of his comfort zone. I repeat Pac CANNOT handle good counter punchers, it's a glaring weakness and JMM is the second best counter puncher in the world, hence the reason Arum had to pay the judges off twice to rob JMM in the past.
I'm not gonna go back and forth with all this weight bullshit...
The fight is on and Nov. 5th can't come soon enough for me.
I'll let JMM do the talking in the ring for me.
Juan como me dijiste una vez en Las Vegas despues de tu pelea contro Victor Polo.
Peleo con el corazon y nunca pierdo la fe, porque la virgencita siempre esta con migo.
Guerra Juan Manuel! Hasta al final...
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Miles, take a pause, are you "fully aware" that Marquez in his own stipulations was pursuing this fight with Pacquiao at a catchweight of 143lbs, right?
I guess then, the hell you are raising and the names you've disparaged along the way... was caused by the "mere" pound that was not granted in making this fight...
I don't know, a pound off of a targeted weight for a fight seem so minimal and inconsequential as to raise such a foul howl!
...some people can really be dramatic if they get their marshmallows afire.
Full text from The Examiner...
Marquez wants Manny Pacquiao to meet him at 143 pounds for 'Trilogy' fight - National Fight Sports | Examiner.com
What are the rules regarding a minumum weight if they weren't officially fighting for a belt, anyone know? I just can't see any reason Marquez should put on one pound to fight Pacquiao, it does nothing for him whatsoever. I don't see him beating Pacquiao(again imo) at 140 or above as it is, but if Marquez in fact HAD to weigh 140? It puts him at a clear disadvantage. He had Manny's number and may still do, but Pacquiao has undoubtedly become a bigger stronger fighter since they met last, and Marquez is ancient for a featherweight. Id love to see another great fight between these two, and it indeed is as good a fight out there for Pacquiao barring Mayweather or Martinez. Would absolutely hate to see Marquez get stopped for the first time trying to fight a welterweight again though.
people are making this thing a complicated one where in fact its quite simple.
Manny Pacquiao was able to manhandle bigger fellas at Weltweweight not because he became a big dude himself. The heaviest he has weigh in a fight is 148lbs. He was able to destroy them big fellas because of his speed and power w/c he already have from the start. People (except Hatton) are being beaten up to 12 rounds while at the lower weights only the three Mexicans Morales, Marquez and Barrera have reached 12 rounds
Manny Pacquiao is not so much bigger than Marquez. only people w/c made up their mind to descredit Pacquiao thinks Pac is a lot bigger. Mosley towers over Pacquiao if you all didnt noticed.
--
Both JMM and PAC are 145 to 148 lbs fighters at fight night.
Noone said Manny is beating guys his own size, or that he is much bigger than Marquez. The fact is that very few fighters in history have been able to RETAIN their speed and power while moving up several weight classes. Marquez has already shown that he can not, for instance. However since Pacquiao has actually beaten all of his willing adversaries in a higher weight class, the best fight for him is now against a man his own size in Marquez. I imagine most people simply feel it would be most impressive and make for the best fight, if he were to meet Marquez at a weight they are both comfortable and effective at.Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_lang
I think he is barking mad. The man would sell his own leg to get another fight with Pacquiao, he has certainly sold his weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by KananKrusQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
Miles, take a pause, are you "fully aware" that Marquez in his own stipulations was pursuing this fight with Pacquiao at a catchweight of 143lbs, right?
I guess then, the hell you are raising and the names you've disparaged along the way... was caused by the "mere" pound that was not granted in making this fight...
I don't know, a pound off of a targeted weight for a fight seem so minimal and inconsequential as to raise such a foul howl!
...some people can really be dramatic if they get their marshmallows afire.
Full text from The Examiner...
Marquez wants Manny Pacquiao to meet him at 143 pounds for 'Trilogy' fight - National Fight Sports | Examiner.com
He knows more than I do, so I am just going to have to assume that he knows what he is doing, but I am extremely uneasy about this CW business. Manny has all the balls firmly in his court whilst Marquez simply has big balls.
This is such a nonsense argument.
Manny and Marquez are the same size appox and as has been said earlier what matters is the weight they actually fight at, not weigh in at.
There will be no more than a couple pounds natural weight difference either way, certainly nowhere the 17 lb disasvantage Manny overcame to batter Margarito.
I just love the mental gymnastics and ridiculous logic you haters have to spout at us in order to avoid the obvious elephant in the room.
Manny was able to move up and beat Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley because right now he is a better fighter than Marquez.
All of this weight bullshit is just a weak attempt to veil the obvious.
Manny is a beast at welterweight, it's where he now belongs. If Marquez wants to challenge him for a third time he should do what Manny has had to do and move up for fuck's sake.
All of this 'Manny must move down for it to be a fair fight' is just a display of your true feelings, being that you just want to see Manny lose.
Modern day 141. Armstrong's day it didn't matter. He won the welter crown when he weighed in at 135.Weight is one of the biggest cop outs in boxing. In a 17 division system it’s even more of a joke. This is an era where welter weights are fighting at lightweight and middle weights are fighting at welter. This absurd notion that Manny is some kind of giant against Marquez is just that. It’s actually borderline comical.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Is the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.
If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.
What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.
It is an immediate disadvantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
For those of us who speak and believe English should be the only language of the forum...
John and I once said in Las Vegas after your fight against Victor Polo.
I fight with heart and never lose faith, because the virgin is always with me.
Juan Manuel Guerra! Until the end ...
He's agreed to come down to 144. That's in line with the other fighters Manny fought, like Cotto and Margarito who you all said were massively weight drained corpses as a result of this cruel, manipulative cheating by team Pacman.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIs the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.
If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.
What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.
It is an immediate disadvantage.
How can you with a straight face claim it was wrong for Manny to fight bigger guys at catchweight as the advantage was too strongly in his favour and now when he himself is giving up weight argue that once again it is in his favour.
The point you are missing is that the reason you always think it favours Pac is because of the result, i.e he destroys everybody he fights.
Now to unbiased observer this would be a sign of his greatness, but as you have already rejected that notion 'a priori' you have to reject that self evident conclusion and instead go with weight manipulation. Manny is amazing at 147 because he merely adjusts to the weight better than Marquez who, despite being better than Manny cannot fight bigger men as well because of some unfortunate makeup in his biochemistry,
It's absurd.
Both men will likely weigh in within a pound of each on the night, you are just already making excuses to detract from Manny's coming win.
JMM when he rehydrates is probably close to 142 or something like that, i just think he's more shopworn now. But im still hoping my boy gives him a good go.
My goodness.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboHe's agreed to come down to 144. That's in line with the other fighters Manny fought, like Cotto and Margarito who you all said were massively weight drained corpses as a result of this cruel, manipulative cheating by team Pacman.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIs the fight not at 144, what are you arguing about Bilbo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
You have your wish, a man who has grown into the weight with speed and power fighting another man way out of his ideal weight.
If it was to be a fair fight then Marquez would be allowed to weigh in at 140 and Manny the same, they could then rehydrate to what they like. But what we have here instead is a man quite used to weighing in at this weight and another man who isn't and has no track record at the weight.
What I propose is an even playing field. One man comes down and another man goes up, but what we now have is one man who has built his frame and is used to the weight and another man who now has to start from scratch much like against PBF.
It is an immediate disadvantage.
How can you with a straight face claim it was wrong for Manny to fight bigger guys at catchweight as the advantage was too strongly in his favour and now when he himself is giving up weight argue that once again it is in his favour.
The point you are missing is that the reason you always think it favours Pac is because of the result, i.e he destroys everybody he fights.
Now to unbiased observer this would be a sign of his greatness, but as you have already rejected that notion 'a priori' you have to reject that self evident conclusion and instead go with weight manipulation. Manny is amazing at 147 because he merely adjusts to the weight better than Marquez who, despite being better than Manny cannot fight bigger men as well because of some unfortunate makeup in his biochemistry,
It's absurd.
Both men will likely weigh in within a pound of each on the night, you are just already making excuses to detract from Manny's coming win.
He has agreed to 'come down' to 144 you say. That is not coming down, his own camp says he eats children to maintain his current bodyweight. The man could very easily make 140. The only way to equal things out is have both fighters compromise and settle with an equal day before weigh in as that is all we have, that weight would be 140.
All we have here is an unequal weigh in. Manny has been practicing this weight game with the big plodders for 2 years, Marquez hasn't. Okay, maybe they come in at similar weights, but one has been preparing for it for 2 years, the other has done it only once.
Manny has all the natural advantages. Manny IS the bigger and stronger fighter. Marquez is the far more intelligent, but that has been partly nullified with this CW nonsense.
As long as the fight happens I'm happy. That and I hope it's for the middleweight Diamond Belt, that would really make it worth it.
asi se habla coño!!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
What makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
That statement should have already settled the argument but I don't think they still understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Oscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerWhat makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.
Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.
Did you ever mention that Oscar will be weight drained BEFORE he fought Manny? Or did you just based that opinion after seeing how Manny dominated Oscar? If it had been more of a competitive fight because Manny did not carry his speed and power at that weight, would you still have thought that Oscar was weight drained?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerWhat makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.
Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.
Let's say Manny went down to 140 and was dominated by Juan Manuel. Would you say that Manny has been weight drained because he hasn't fought at that weight for some time? I don't think so.
No issues between men who want to fight... now as for "questionable men" with the faint of heart... that is a whole different ball of wax.
Pac goes believing he'd win against Margarito.
With 150lbs set as the weight limit, Manny came in very light at 144.6 giving away so much weight disadvantage. Did it matter? I guess not! Incidentally Antonio Margarito weighed the maximum 150 lbs and the rest is history.
Now, fast forward. Marquez, the brilliant Mexican warrior believes he has never lost to Pac, including this third one scheduled in early November. Should the catch weight issues/discrepancies matter? It should not!
He should just follow Pac's lead towards his perspective regarding weight issues.
He definitely matches Pacquiao's confidence at winning this fight, why not go with that strong belief to match Pac's indifference to indiscretions towards weight disadvantages? They'd weigh almost equal fight night anyway!
'Thing is... I see much of the apprehension "only" from nervous fans really, rather than from the protagonists. LOL!
Have I been spreading the Oscar weight drained argument? It was certainly a reason, but as I have highlighted it was not the sole reason for the win. It was about two fighters making a compromise and that is what all of my arguments are about. Compromises. One with too much power compromising with the other. With the new Manny fight there is NO compromise.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerDid you ever mention that Oscar will be weight drained BEFORE he fought Manny? Or did you just based that opinion after seeing how Manny dominated Oscar? If it had been more of a competitive fight because Manny did not carry his speed and power at that weight, would you still have thought that Oscar is weight drained?Quote:
Originally Posted by milesOscar fought at 154 for nigh on a decade. Eventually he saw more opportunities by boiling down. He did so first with Forbes and looked crap. He further continued this by fighting Manny. That's weight drained.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerWhat makes you think that Pacquiao can easily make 140? You are asking him to lose 5 lbs!!! This is the same 5 lbs that Oscar lose when he fought Manny and you described him as weight drained. Like what someone said, where is the consistency?Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Now Pac has fought at WW for about 2 years max. Are you telling me that he has the same issues that Oscar had? Oscar fought at 154 for years and eventually fought Manny at 147. And you are telling me that asking Manny who weighs in at 145 is unable to lose a few pounds? Plus who is telling us that Manny eats babies to maintain weight? His own team.
Who was asking for consistency? GB? I gave it to him, he was satisfied. Julius Rains? He is retarded, I laugh at him. Bilbo, sure he is worth a debate. But otherwise, you are talking crap.
Let's say Manny went down to 140 and was dominated by Juan Manuel. Would you say that Manny has been weight drained because he hasn't fought at that weight for some time? I don't think so.
If Manny were to fight at 140, it would be called fair. Otherwise he is simply a fascist and his new job simply gave him the confidence to be so.
Like what I said in my early post, if this fight is at 140 Manny will have to lose 5 lbs whereas Juan Manuel will just need to gain 1-2 lbs to be within that same division. And we are just talking about weight-in weight which is more of theatrics. Their actual weight on fight night will not be that much different probably a difference of only 3 lbs. Them fighting at 144 (weight-in) just means that both of them do not need to dehydrate that much to meet the requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
It's like both of them already 'almost' rehydrated at the weight-in.
I like it. Winner also becomes "Super Ultimate Champion"...Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
If they both come into the ring at the same weight then I can't complain really, but Marquez having to weigh in so much heavier than at any time beyond Mayweather and being so much older makes me fear the worst.
As a boxing fan, all I want to see is good fights and that basically means a few compromises to give the fans a great fight and in return the fighters take home their massive paychecks.
What I don't like is fighters who have become too powerful picking and choosing their opponents and playing games with weights. And that is what Manny has become. In time it will cloud his greatness.
Manny has to eat 10,000 calories and eat like a whale in order to hit these marks of 145lbs. It's just an excuse to make JMM fight at a disadvantage. Manny could just eat like a normal human and fight at a weight he wouldn't have to gorge at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?
They should certainly have something in the contract stipulating that on the day neither man be allowed to weigh more than 146 pounds. I just see Marquez putting on that weight as an older man and Manny having already done so as a younger man. Manny is the naturally bigger fighter now. If this wasn't the case then he would have been fighting at LW himself. Manny is a proven WW, whilst Marquez is a proven LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?
Any sensible person can agree that a 140 weigh in would have been fair, what we currently have are the scales turned in Manny's favour. Still, what's done is done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Valid point.
but the problem is. Pacquiao as general knowledge plans on staying at Welterweight and has been 144-145 range at the scales. If he drops for a single fight say at 140 then the routine will be disrupted.
Yeah its a little sacrifice if we intend to satisfy some forum posters who would love to see him lose. but the reality is he could really be affected not just in the one fight that he will take at 140 BUT after this fight when he needs to be 145 again. see the point?
and the heck he needs to do all this against someone who has been chasing him for but not limited to a payday :confused: to add that he had already beaten this fighter makes it EXTREMELY RIDICULOUS :p
1. Roy looks inhuman at 175 went North and beat a Heavyweight went back and got kayoed silly by men not even worth to be mentioned along him legacy wise.
2. Chrys Byrd Went up went down and looks garbage in an embarrasing KO loss.
3. SRL looks out of it going down from his previous bout againts Terry Norris.
** Both men will be 145 to 148 fight night **
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
You typed it like Manny is 25 yrs old :)
Manny Pacquiao is 32 yrs old with almost 60 bouts.
Yeah Marquez is older but what happened to RING age? are we all going for the calendar age for this match?
Do you know what was Margarito's fight night weight? 165 pounds to Manny's 148. Do you know what was JMM's fight night weight against Katsidis? 146 pounds. So Manny on fight night will be 2 pounds heavier more than likely. Don't really see a major weight advantage there.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThey should certainly have something in the contract stipulating that on the day neither man be allowed to weigh more than 146 pounds. I just see Marquez putting on that weight as an older man and Manny having already done so as a younger man. Manny is the naturally bigger fighter now. If this wasn't the case then he would have been fighting at LW himself. Manny is a proven WW, whilst Marquez is a proven LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?
Any sensible person can agree that a 140 weigh in would have been fair, what we currently have are the scales turned in Manny's favour. Still, what's done is done.
On fight night JMM is a welterweight fighting at lightweight. He doesn't have to cut that much weight anymore when he fights at ww, just like Manny. JMM got his ass whooped by Floyd who has never weighed more than 150 pounds upon rehydration was not because of size but because of skill.
So are you going to tell me that Manny will have such a massive weight advantage with 2 pounds? Manny has never weighed more than 148 upon rehydration in his fights.
Manny is not the bigger fighter. He has chosen to fight at a bigger weight. Marquez weighed 148 I think against Katsidis. The weight difference thing to be honest is taxing on the frontal lobe. Their is no weight difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesThey should certainly have something in the contract stipulating that on the day neither man be allowed to weigh more than 146 pounds. I just see Marquez putting on that weight as an older man and Manny having already done so as a younger man. Manny is the naturally bigger fighter now. If this wasn't the case then he would have been fighting at LW himself. Manny is a proven WW, whilst Marquez is a proven LW.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
Marquez can weigh in at 141. My Lord he was a lightweight fighting at feather. At fight time they are a pound or two different. So what?
Any sensible person can agree that a 140 weigh in would have been fair, what we currently have are the scales turned in Manny's favour. Still, what's done is done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Valid point.
but the problem is. Pacquiao as general knowledge plans on staying at Welterweight and has been 144-145 range at the scales. If he drops for a single fight say at 140 then the routine will be disrupted.
Yeah its a little sacrifice if we intend to satisfy some forum posters who would love to see him lose. but the reality is he could really be affected not just in the one fight that he will take at 140 BUT after this fight when he needs to be 145 again. see the point?
and the heck he needs to do all this against someone who has been chasing him for but not limited to a payday :confused: to add that he had already beaten this fighter makes it EXTREMELY RIDICULOUS :p
1. Roy looks inhuman at 175 went North and beat a Heavyweight went back and got kayoed silly by men not even worth to be mentioned along him legacy wise.
2. Chrys Byrd Went up went down and looks garbage in an embarrasing KO loss.
3. SRL looks out of it going down from his previous bout againts Terry Norris.
** Both men will be 145 to 148 fight night **
Pac struggles to make 144-145......he eats like 500lb Gorilla.....its hard for him to make that weight. Pac struggles to make 144-145 lets remember that. All this "He's a natural welterweight talk 147" is bullshit. He has a story for the weight that best suits him and gives him the advantage. He has the power to require this.
Pacquiao-134 Diaz-135 (weigh in) Pacquiao-147 Diaz-148 (fight night) 06-2008
Pacquiao-142 Delahoya-145 (weigh in) Pacquiao-148 Delahoya-147 (fight night) 12-2008
Pacquiao-138 Hatton-140 (weigh in) Pacquiao-148 Hatton-152 (fight night) 05-2009
Pacquiao-144 Cotto-145 (weigh in) Fight night weight..? 11-2009
Pacquiao-145 Clottey-147 (weigh in) Fight night...? 03-2010
Pacquiao-144.5 Marg-150
Not buying his routine will be affected. Look at the jump from Delahoya then Hatton then Cotto. Pac makes 140-142 easily. Or he cuts back on his calories. He did it for Hatton.
Excellent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoeyQuote:
Originally Posted by miron_langQuote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Valid point.
but the problem is. Pacquiao as general knowledge plans on staying at Welterweight and has been 144-145 range at the scales. If he drops for a single fight say at 140 then the routine will be disrupted.
Yeah its a little sacrifice if we intend to satisfy some forum posters who would love to see him lose. but the reality is he could really be affected not just in the one fight that he will take at 140 BUT after this fight when he needs to be 145 again. see the point?
and the heck he needs to do all this against someone who has been chasing him for but not limited to a payday :confused: to add that he had already beaten this fighter makes it EXTREMELY RIDICULOUS :p
1. Roy looks inhuman at 175 went North and beat a Heavyweight went back and got kayoed silly by men not even worth to be mentioned along him legacy wise.
2. Chrys Byrd Went up went down and looks garbage in an embarrasing KO loss.
3. SRL looks out of it going down from his previous bout againts Terry Norris.
** Both men will be 145 to 148 fight night **
Pac struggles to make 144-145......he eats like 500lb Gorilla.....its hard for him to make that weight. Pac struggles to make 144-145 lets remember that. All this "He's a natural welterweight talk 147" is bullshit. He has a story for the weight that best suits him and gives him the advantage. He has the power to require this.
Pacquiao-134 Diaz-135 (weigh in) Pacquiao-147 Diaz-148 (fight night) 06-2008
Pacquiao-142 Delahoya-145 (weigh in) Pacquiao-148 Delahoya-147 (fight night) 12-2008
Pacquiao-138 Hatton-140 (weigh in) Pacquiao-148 Hatton-152 (fight night) 05-2009
Pacquiao-144 Cotto-145 (weigh in) Fight night weight..? 11-2009
Pacquiao-145 Clottey-147 (weigh in) Fight night...? 03-2010
Pacquiao-144.5 Marg-150
Not buying his routine will be affected. Look at the jump from Delahoya then Hatton then Cotto. Pac makes 140-142 easily. Or he cuts back on his calories. He did it for Hatton.
You know that for sure?Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiajoey
Can you give an example in the history of this SPORT where the Bigger named Champion being chased in the higher weight moved down for the B-Side opponent?
Even Sugar Ray Leonard moved up to 160 to fight the B-Side opponent in Hagler.
You want Pacquiao to do something that has never been done in this SPORT WTF you guys realize that dont you?