< David Haye vs. Monte Barrett > It's go time... Let's talk it out.

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Haye was sloppy as shit...He swung for the fences too many times...He kept that left arm of his way too low...He did not look to be overly fast most of the time.....

One time he tried to slug with eithr Klitschko he would end up on his back....Especially Vitaly who likes to toy with opponents...This guy is no threat to either sorry...amd I can see the "It was only his first real HW bout" bullshit coming already

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Daxx I assume you've seen Lennox Lewis vs Shannon Briggs - didn't Lewis look sloppy at times in that fight when Briggs was swinging wildly early on?
Yes he did but did he look the same way in his next fight? No.

Point is you can't base everything on 1 fight - Haye was overeager once he had his man hurt while Barrett was fighting desperate.

I'm convinced haye will box against Klitschko or someone more threatning as he has done in the past.

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I admittedly not seen much of pre-Maccarinelli Haye, maybe you can point out a fight where Haye boxes. I'd like to see it.

As for Vitali Klitschko, I think people are assuming he is back to his best based on 1 fight.

Yes he controlled the fight and did a good job but Peter just didn't turn up or seemed void of any hunger, desire or motivation.

Peter would have lost to alot of Heavyweights that night simply cause he looked like he hadn't trained and was one of the slowest Heavyweights I have ever seen in the history of the sport - he made Matt Skelton seem light footed.

We will have definate answers about how good Vitali is when he faces a stern test in Gomez - another former Cruiserweight king.
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For me Haye boxed well the 1st 2 rounds and avoided jabs from Barrett and dodged some hefty looking blows. Haye did get caught a couple of times but took them well - it is a boxing match so people are going to get hit.
From the 3rd it got a bit reckless and intruth very entertaining. Barrett was a desperate man and Haye was trying to find the finishing punch.

It was only the last knockdown that Haye landed on the button - all the other knockdowns seemeed to be grazing blows - which is testiment to Hayes power.

Haye has now Ko'd 2 Heavyweights and I expect the next fight to be a greater test - the winner of arreola vs Walker would be good or even Eddie Chambers for the rounds.


Entertainment in a Heavyweight fight - at long last.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by WelshDevilRob

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Haye was sloppy as shit...He swung for the fences too many times...He kept that left arm of his way too low...He did not look to be overly fast most of the time.....

One time he tried to slug with eithr Klitschko he would end up on his back....Especially Vitaly who likes to toy with opponents...This guy is no threat to either sorry...amd I can see the "It was only his first real HW bout" bullshit coming already

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Daxx I assume you've seen Lennox Lewis vs Shannon Briggs - didn't Lewis look sloppy at times in that fight when Briggs was swinging wildly early on?
Yes he did but did he look the same way in his next fight? No.

Point is you can't base everything on 1 fight - Haye was overeager once he had his man hurt while Barrett was fighting desperate.

I'm convinced haye will box against Klitschko or someone more threatning as he has done in the past.

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I admittedly not seen much of pre-Maccarinelli Haye, maybe you can point out a fight where Haye boxes. I'd like to see it.

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The Fragomeni fight he boxed for long periods and picked his punches due to the Italians gloves being in such a high guard. Fragomeni fought coming forward behind a very tight guard - meaning Haye had to move and pick his shots.

He also took his time against Mormeck but that was mainly due to weight issues.

IMO Haye looked kinda bad last night. He won yes, but look very non-poised doing so.

He will not reach the top fighting like that. It was his first fight at heavy so I am willing to look past it for now.

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

IMO Haye looked kinda bad last night. He won yes, but look very non-poised doing so.

He will not reach the top fighting like that. It was his first fight at heavy so I am willing to look past it for now.

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He looked erratic.The thing is he needs to refine and tighten up his deficiency's NOW before he gets in with the higher tier.Its an entirely different ball game now.Barret,even at this stage was a good showcase intro but Haye has alot of work to do.Power will take you places but his lack of defense is glaring,backing straight,hands down....and that leaping in with that right.Barret was touching him in spots.

I still can't get over it.

What the hell was it all about ?

Anyone got a vid so I could watch it again I would appreciate it :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouu_zPXZB48

I scored the ring entrance 10-8 even though a punch wasn't landed.

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Originally Posted by GuyIncognito76

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by GuyIncognito76

Remember the good old days when fights used to be on at 10pm? What the hell is the point of putting it on just before midnight, surely you must get a smaller audience? It can't be for US TV 'cause I doubt they give a shit.

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It's not for US TV because it wasn't broadcast in the US.

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I knew you didn't give a shit!

I'm taking a letter...

Dear Mr Obama... ;D

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Hey man i didn't say I didn't watch it....................
;)
I am interested to see if Haye can bring some excitement into the HW division.

Lol, poor guy thats embarassing as hell. I think he should have taken the full eight before springing up.

You guys are way to tough on Haye.. I mean cmon already, I agree that Haye will never have a shot at beating Vitali until he is so past it he cant walk..

But Daxx Wlad dosent brawl at all, The worst thing Haye could do is try to box with him, the way to beat Wlad is to hit him at different angles and press him and make him uncomfortable, so Haye fighting a bit erratic against Wlad isint a bad thing since Wlad likes to clinch and pull straight back, thats why Haye is gonna knock him out silly..

Vitali has a super human chin and likes it controlled or messy he isint afraid to engage and isint going to pullback he will stand his ground and keep punching, he wont runaway like a scared rabbit which is Wlads move..

he handled it well and recovered nicely;)

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by piye

Lot of criticism considering he knocked the guy down five times. and was unhurt and dragged into a brawl.

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Well you just added to things...By trying to act as though the criticizim is un warrented just opened a huge point and a point that was already being made...

1. Knocking down Barrett 5 times is not really a huge thing...he was KO'd by Couser....a second rate journeyman

2. If he can be made to fight Barretts fight and not allow himself to remain poised and stick to HIS game plan against a gate keeper WTF is he supposed to do against Vitaly?....Are you going to say that if he was in a fight with Vitaly he would handle himself different because he knows he would have to?...Or some other bullshit.....

Haye was sloppy...Had nothing to do with Barrett...Haye swung for the fences far to often throughout the bout.....His damn left was so low he might as well of not even had one for defense because if he kept it that low against Vitaly...The Dr would take his head off with a straight right....

I agree Haye will create some excitement in the HW division...His trash talk alone will draw fans but fact is he is not on the level of either Klitschko...Both are too big....Vitaly if he choose to "Drag Haye into a brawl"...would not go down 5 times...(Not at all)....he would muscle Haye anywhere he wants....

Truth is IMO Sam Peter KO's Haye the first time he connects with a right to the head full tilt.....

Haye has a future but he is not ready to fight atop the HW division....The real big guys are too strong for Haye and the fact he is so easily "Drawn into a brawl"....He would be his own worst enemy

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Seems as though you are letting your emotions get the better of you. I have watched Hayes entire career as I purchased his career set have you? ok well anyway I know that he can stick to a game plan he allowed himself to be dragged into a brawl as he knew he would win. He would not take the same mentality into the ring with either Klitscho brother.

JT whenever a fighter hypes himself up as much as Haye he's going to be looked at more closely. Haye has been hyped by himself and his fans and from what I saw he wanted to have a show last night and for the most part he did but he also showed off some flaws.


My question is this: Do you want boxing fans to tell you what they see or do you want them to help you hype up your favorite fighter?


Haye KO'd Monte Barrett, it's what was expected of him....it doesn't mean in doing so that there are no flaws in Haye's game or that he fought a picture perfect match....he didn't and he'd be lying to everyone if he said otherwise.


There is a difference in being truthful and being a hater or a nut hugger....I am happy Haye won but I forsee trouble for him in the future and not with Wlad or Vitali but with maybe a guy like James Toney or someone else...we'll just have to see who he fights next and what route to a title he wants to take.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

JT whenever a fighter hypes himself up as much as Haye he's going to be looked at more closely. Haye has been hyped by himself and his fans and from what I saw he wanted to have a show last night and for the most part he did but he also showed off some flaws.


My question is this: Do you want boxing fans to tell you what they see or do you want them to help you hype up your favorite fighter?


Haye KO'd Monte Barrett, it's what was expected of him....it doesn't mean in doing so that there are no flaws in Haye's game or that he fought a picture perfect match....he didn't and he'd be lying to everyone if he said otherwise.


There is a difference in being truthful and being a hater or a nut hugger....I am happy Haye won but I forsee trouble for him in the future and not with Wlad or Vitali but with maybe a guy like James Toney or someone else...we'll just have to see who he fights next and what route to a title he wants to take.

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I agree 100% Haye should stay the hell away from Toney at this point, james would have a blast picking him apart and countering.. David is still growing and maturing as a fighter..Haye has tremendous upside and is great for the division..

No way does Haye have a snowballs chance in hell against Vitali if he is healthy

I think the best choices for Haye to fight, beat, and continue his growth as a fighter are as follows: Ray Austin, Kali Meehan, Dominick Guinn and Friday Ahunaya.

After a win or two at that level he then needs to step up to: Sultan Ibragimov, Jameel McCline, Luan Krasniqi, Sergei Lyakhovich, Eddie Chambers, John Ruiz and Cris Arreola.

And after a win or three there (having fought anywehere from 2-4 fights)he can then take on Wlad or Vitali or whoever else is there.

All those fighters have different attributes, skills, strengths, and weaknesses and therefore will tell us a lot about Haye.

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by piye

Lot of criticism considering he knocked the guy down five times. and was unhurt and dragged into a brawl.

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Well you just added to things...By trying to act as though the criticizim is un warrented just opened a huge point and a point that was already being made...

1. Knocking down Barrett 5 times is not really a huge thing...he was KO'd by Couser....a second rate journeyman

2. If he can be made to fight Barretts fight and not allow himself to remain poised and stick to HIS game plan against a gate keeper WTF is he supposed to do against Vitaly?....Are you going to say that if he was in a fight with Vitaly he would handle himself different because he knows he would have to?...Or some other bullshit.....

Haye was sloppy...Had nothing to do with Barrett...Haye swung for the fences far to often throughout the bout.....His damn left was so low he might as well of not even had one for defense because if he kept it that low against Vitaly...The Dr would take his head off with a straight right....

I agree Haye will create some excitement in the HW division...His trash talk alone will draw fans but fact is he is not on the level of either Klitschko...Both are too big....Vitaly if he choose to "Drag Haye into a brawl"...would not go down 5 times...(Not at all)....he would muscle Haye anywhere he wants....

Truth is IMO Sam Peter KO's Haye the first time he connects with a right to the head full tilt.....

Haye has a future but he is not ready to fight atop the HW division....The real big guys are too strong for Haye and the fact he is so easily "Drawn into a brawl"....He would be his own worst enemy

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Seems as though you are letting your emotions get the better of you. I have watched Hayes entire career as I purchased his career set have you? ok well anyway I know that he can stick to a game plan he allowed himself to be dragged into a brawl as he knew he would win. He would not take the same mentality into the ring with either Klitscho brother.

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No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

You guys are way to tough on Haye.. I mean cmon already, I agree that Haye will never have a shot at beating Vitali until he is so past it he cant walk..

But Daxx Wlad dosent brawl at all, The worst thing Haye could do is try to box with him, the way to beat Wlad is to hit him at different angles and press him and make him uncomfortable, so Haye fighting a bit erratic against Wlad isint a bad thing since Wlad likes to clinch and pull straight back, thats why Haye is gonna knock him out silly..

Vitali has a super human chin and likes it controlled or messy he isint afraid to engage and isint going to pullback he will stand his ground and keep punching, he wont runaway like a scared rabbit which is Wlads move..

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Vitaly and Wlad are two different machines agreed on that but Wlad has a better chin then most give credit for...BUT with that being said...China chin or no china chin...

Haye gives Wlad an opening to connect with some rights flush he will go down....

What has Haye done to prove his chin is anybetter then..Brewster, Brock, McCline, Botha...he is also the first man to crack the jaw of then Iron chinnes Ray Mercer...

If those men fell why would Haye be any different?....Wlad hits a hell of a lot harder then Carl Thompson I promise that...And the it was early in his career excuse that guys use does not fly....Experience does not make your chin more durable....

Who is to say Wlad even allows Haye in enough to get off....With his left so low all it would take is one mistake...

Just my opinion JT...

But as for him beating Vitaly.....Like you said...Vitaly would have to be so crippled he could not even walk

I saw the fight today, and DAMN, Barrett nailed him with a left hook when Haye was down. That was an ugly ugly cheapshot! :-\

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Originally Posted by Formerly D@vid Leeder

I saw the fight today, and DAMN, Barrett nailed him with a left hook when Haye was down. That was an ugly ugly cheapshot! :-\

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....that was my favorite part of the whole fight ;D

A bit harsh...in contrast, my favorite part was when Haye dropped Barrett and Barrett literally slid across the ropes, nosefirst!

Haye delivered what was expected, a knockout. Wasnt overly impressed with him to be honest but given the occasion and who was sat ringside he can be forgiven for trying a little too hard.

Against the smaller guys like Barrett, Sam Peter I'd prefer to see him get behind that ramrod jab and bust people up. Im affraid that wont work againt Vitali or Wlad though, he'll have to go in against them all guns blazing, kill or be killed.

Cant wait.

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Well you just added to things...By trying to act as though the criticizim is un warrented just opened a huge point and a point that was already being made...

1. Knocking down Barrett 5 times is not really a huge thing...he was KO'd by Couser....a second rate journeyman

2. If he can be made to fight Barretts fight and not allow himself to remain poised and stick to HIS game plan against a gate keeper WTF is he supposed to do against Vitaly?....Are you going to say that if he was in a fight with Vitaly he would handle himself different because he knows he would have to?...Or some other bullshit.....

Haye was sloppy...Had nothing to do with Barrett...Haye swung for the fences far to often throughout the bout.....His damn left was so low he might as well of not even had one for defense because if he kept it that low against Vitaly...The Dr would take his head off with a straight right....

I agree Haye will create some excitement in the HW division...His trash talk alone will draw fans but fact is he is not on the level of either Klitschko...Both are too big....Vitaly if he choose to "Drag Haye into a brawl"...would not go down 5 times...(Not at all)....he would muscle Haye anywhere he wants....

Truth is IMO Sam Peter KO's Haye the first time he connects with a right to the head full tilt.....

Haye has a future but he is not ready to fight atop the HW division....The real big guys are too strong for Haye and the fact he is so easily "Drawn into a brawl"....He would be his own worst enemy

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Seems as though you are letting your emotions get the better of you. I have watched Hayes entire career as I purchased his career set have you? ok well anyway I know that he can stick to a game plan he allowed himself to be dragged into a brawl as he knew he would win. He would not take the same mentality into the ring with either Klitscho brother.

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No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

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Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by piye

Seems as though you are letting your emotions get the better of you. I have watched Hayes entire career as I purchased his career set have you? ok well anyway I know that he can stick to a game plan he allowed himself to be dragged into a brawl as he knew he would win. He would not take the same mentality into the ring with either Klitscho brother.

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No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

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Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

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I've pretty much seen all his fights, and his beiggest deficiency (and still is) is his stamina. Fragommeni laid down one blue print on how to beat him and that was to pressurre him til he was uncomfortable, some of the bigger guys will be able to stand up to his shots until his engine fails.

He likes to fight in his comfort zone, and I think I heard a discussion between him and Booth between rounds about how many punches he threw as if they had set a limit.

He's an exciting fighter, and I hopie he keeps winning til he gets his shot as Haye-Klitchko could be a big event in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

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Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

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I've pretty much seen all his fights, and his beiggest deficiency (and still is) is his stamina. Fragommeni laid down one blue print on how to beat him and that was to pressurre him til he was uncomfortable, some of the bigger guys will be able to stand up to his shots until his engine fails.

He likes to fight in his comfort zone, and I think I heard a discussion between him and Booth between rounds about how many punches he threw as if they had set a limit.

He's an exciting fighter, and I hopie he keeps winning til he gets his shot as Haye-Klitchko could be a big event in Europe.

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I agree with what you have said here and you appear to have made a decision based upon what you have witnessed across multiple fights and not just one single fight.

Booth has been counting his punches per round for a while now.. i think back to the Abdoul fight (schooling in public session).

I don't think his stamina is a big problem.. the majority of his fights wont last 6 rounds - win or lose.

I think Barrett (although possibly drunk) came to fight. And is a lot faster than many "better" heavyweights Haye might face.

Speed doesn't mean much without control and accuracy

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Lyle

JT whenever a fighter hypes himself up as much as Haye he's going to be looked at more closely. Haye has been hyped by himself and his fans and from what I saw he wanted to have a show last night and for the most part he did but he also showed off some flaws.


My question is this: Do you want boxing fans to tell you what they see or do you want them to help you hype up your favorite fighter?


Haye KO'd Monte Barrett, it's what was expected of him....it doesn't mean in doing so that there are no flaws in Haye's game or that he fought a picture perfect match....he didn't and he'd be lying to everyone if he said otherwise.


There is a difference in being truthful and being a hater or a nut hugger....I am happy Haye won but I forsee trouble for him in the future and not with Wlad or Vitali but with maybe a guy like James Toney or someone else...we'll just have to see who he fights next and what route to a title he wants to take.

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I agree 100% Haye should stay the hell away from Toney at this point, james would have a blast picking him apart and countering.. David is still growing and maturing as a fighter..Haye has tremendous upside and is great for the division..

No way does Haye have a snowballs chance in hell against Vitali if he is healthy

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I don't know I love James Toney he's a legend but he's looked bad in recent outings. We can't really tell anything from the fight with Rahman as it was over before it began but Toney looked God awful against that Bachelder bum and pretty terrible against Sam Peter in their rematch. He hardly impressive in the first Rahman fight either.

I don't think he'll get past Thompson to be honest, I think he's just about ready to retire now.

I can't see him beating David Haye at this stage in his career. I'd love to see him [ut an ass whupping on the Hayemaker but the Toney that stopped Holyfield, that beat up Jirov and owned John Ruiz is sadly long gone imo.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by Lyle

JT whenever a fighter hypes himself up as much as Haye he's going to be looked at more closely. Haye has been hyped by himself and his fans and from what I saw he wanted to have a show last night and for the most part he did but he also showed off some flaws.


My question is this: Do you want boxing fans to tell you what they see or do you want them to help you hype up your favorite fighter?


Haye KO'd Monte Barrett, it's what was expected of him....it doesn't mean in doing so that there are no flaws in Haye's game or that he fought a picture perfect match....he didn't and he'd be lying to everyone if he said otherwise.


There is a difference in being truthful and being a hater or a nut hugger....I am happy Haye won but I forsee trouble for him in the future and not with Wlad or Vitali but with maybe a guy like James Toney or someone else...we'll just have to see who he fights next and what route to a title he wants to take.

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I agree 100% Haye should stay the hell away from Toney at this point, james would have a blast picking him apart and countering.. David is still growing and maturing as a fighter..Haye has tremendous upside and is great for the division..

No way does Haye have a snowballs chance in hell against Vitali if he is healthy

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I don't know I love James Toney he's a legend but he's looked bad in recent outings. We can't really tell anything from the fight with Rahman as it was over before it began but Toney looked God awful against that Bachelder bum and pretty terrible against Sam Peter in their rematch. He hardly impressive in the first Rahman fight either.

I don't think he'll get past Thompson to be honest, I think he's just about ready to retire now.

I can't see him beating David Haye at this stage in his career. I'd love to see him [ut an ass whupping on the Hayemaker but the Toney that stopped Holyfield, that beat up Jirov and owned John Ruiz is sadly long gone imo.

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Even at this stage I see him ducking and rolling an over anxious Hayes punches and Haye getting tired or losing steam on his punches.. Toney always looks like a sitting duck, rotund and stationary but he makes you miss and then you pay with counters...

...agreed, if you don't throw straight punches James Toney will abuse you with his defense

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I don't know I love James Toney he's a legend but he's looked bad in recent outings. We can't really tell anything from the fight with Rahman as it was over before it began but Toney looked God awful against that Bachelder bum and pretty terrible against Sam Peter in their rematch. He hardly impressive in the first Rahman fight either.

I don't think he'll get past Thompson to be honest, I think he's just about ready to retire now.

I can't see him beating David Haye at this stage in his career. I'd love to see him [ut an ass whupping on the Hayemaker but the Toney that stopped Holyfield, that beat up Jirov and owned John Ruiz is sadly long gone imo.

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Agreed. The Toney of 4-5 years ago could've beaten Haye. But Toney is an old, old fighter at this point.

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Originally Posted by piye

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by piye

Seems as though you are letting your emotions get the better of you. I have watched Hayes entire career as I purchased his career set have you? ok well anyway I know that he can stick to a game plan he allowed himself to be dragged into a brawl as he knew he would win. He would not take the same mentality into the ring with either Klitscho brother.

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No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

---

Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

---

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piye

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

---

Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

---

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

---

The best thing about Haye is.. he accepts and admits his weaknesses. ;)

Haye said: "Barrett's jabs were the equivalent of a cruiserweight’s right hand. That is something I’ve got to get comfortable with.”

“I’m nowhere near the finished article, but I’m getting there. I will be the finished article in a couple of years and I will be unstoppable.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piye

Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

---

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

---

The best thing about Haye is.. he accepts and admits his weaknesses. ;)

Haye said: "Barrett's jabs were the equivalent of a cruiserweight’s right hand. That is something I’ve got to get comfortable with.”

“I’m nowhere near the finished article, but I’m getting there. I will be the finished article in a couple of years and I will be unstoppable.”

---

I have heard Haye after many of his fights and he is almost like PBF...An asshole until the fight and after he is a gent....I do give him credit for admitting his weaknesses...Shows he is not as full of himself as many think...

But with that being said...

Haye pretty much answered much of the debate with Piye...If he can admit a guy like Barretts jabs were like most cruisers right hands just imagine the effect of one of the better punchers..especially Vitaly....

In a way with his statement of knowing it will be a few years he is almost saying that he knows he is not ready for either of the Brothers Grimm...But he is marketing himself

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

---

The best thing about Haye is.. he accepts and admits his weaknesses. ;)

Haye said: "Barrett's jabs were the equivalent of a cruiserweight’s right hand. That is something I’ve got to get comfortable with.”

“I’m nowhere near the finished article, but I’m getting there. I will be the finished article in a couple of years and I will be unstoppable.”

---

I have heard Haye after many of his fights and he is almost like PBF...An asshole until the fight and after he is a gent....I do give him credit for admitting his weaknesses...Shows he is not as full of himself as many think...

But with that being said...

Haye pretty much answered much of the debate with Piye...If he can admit a guy like Barretts jabs were like most cruisers right hands just imagine the effect of one of the better punchers..especially Vitaly....

In a way with his statement of knowing it will be a few years he is almost saying that he knows he is not ready for either of the Brothers Grimm...But he is marketing himself

---

I wouldn't give him much chance against Vitali (much as in NO chance).. he has a chance against Wlad though.. Haye certainly hits hard enough to exploit anyone with a suspect chin.

We don't know about that at the heavyweight division...sorry KO-ing Monte Barrett doesn't mean much after Couser did it...and to a lesser extent Valuev

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenster

The best thing about Haye is.. he accepts and admits his weaknesses. ;)

Haye said: "Barrett's jabs were the equivalent of a cruiserweight’s right hand. That is something I’ve got to get comfortable with.”

“I’m nowhere near the finished article, but I’m getting there. I will be the finished article in a couple of years and I will be unstoppable.”

---

I have heard Haye after many of his fights and he is almost like PBF...An asshole until the fight and after he is a gent....I do give him credit for admitting his weaknesses...Shows he is not as full of himself as many think...

But with that being said...

Haye pretty much answered much of the debate with Piye...If he can admit a guy like Barretts jabs were like most cruisers right hands just imagine the effect of one of the better punchers..especially Vitaly....

In a way with his statement of knowing it will be a few years he is almost saying that he knows he is not ready for either of the Brothers Grimm...But he is marketing himself

---

I wouldn't give him much chance against Vitali (much as in NO chance).. he has a chance against Wlad though.. Haye certainly hits hard enough to exploit anyone with a suspect chin.

---

You can't call that chin suspect anymore, it got found guilty a long time ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piye

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

No I don't let my emotions get the better of me when assessing a fighter...I go by performances and what they are doing in the ring....You are using fanboy mentality....

You show your fanboy mentality by saying things such as "I have his career set do you?".....As if you are a kid showing off his new bike.....give it a break....If the guy allows someone like Barrett to make them fight his fight then someone the caliber of Vitaly would certainly have no problem....

But just to save you from any further headaches of trying to defend your fighter I will just put it straight..

Haye does not have the punching power to stop Vitaly...(neither does anyone else in the division).....He will not outbox Vitaly...He will not outslug Vitaly....He can not beat Vitaly simple as that

---

Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

---

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

---

Honestly, so you call me a fanboy but then say in the same amount of stupid text that there is no way that this man Vitali can lose right? and every boxing fan knows anything can happen in a ring; in a heavyweight fight a fight can change in one punch but not when Vitali Klitscho is involved is that what your saying? and you accuse me of being a 'fanboy' you just made one of the most rediculous posts I have seen and I don't really feel like communicating with you any more as I am wasting my time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piye

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piye

Oh please. I'm a grown man I'm not a 'fanboy' nor do I follow internet lingo; the purpose of me identifying that I have the David Haye box set was to let you know I have seen every single fight I have many other Box sets also not all of fighters I am a fan of.

Now having watched every fight boxers like Mormeck and Fragomeni (I'm not saying they are better than the Klitscho brothers) had a good enough amount of respect from Haye to ensure he sticks to his game plan until the knockout! My point was just because Haye didn't display that amount of respect here in one fight does not show his inability to stick to a game plan or be calm etc.

You have made an assessment of athletic ability based upon how many fights? where as I have made my assessment based on a career.

---

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

---

Honestly, so you call me a fanboy but then say in the same amount of stupid text that there is no way that this man Vitali can lose right? and every boxing fan knows anything can happen in a ring; in a heavyweight fight a fight can change in one punch but not when Vitali Klitscho is involved is that what your saying? and you accuse me of being a 'fanboy' you just made one of the most rediculous posts I have seen and I don't really feel like communicating with you any more as I am wasting my time.

---

Your kidding me right?...You are going to pout now because I believe in no uncertain terms could David Haye defeat Vitaly Klitschko....

Lennox Lewis could not put Vitaly down...Are you having us to believe that Haye is even 20% the fighter Lennox was at HW?......I made plenty of reasons why Haye can not beat Vitaly...Have you come up with one on why he can?...No you haven't......So it goes to show again your "Fanboy" mentality because you can not debate it...Sure anything can happen in a HW boxing ring but fact is if the two are healthy and met I see no way Haye can beat him...Lets weight it up

Speed--Haye...Though Vitaly is not exactly a turtle

Power--Vitaly

Chin--Vitaly

Size--Vitaly

Reach--Vitaly

Strength--Vitaly

Boxing ability--Vitaly

So please show me where I am wrong....Funny how not one other poster agrees with you on Haye having a chance against Vitaly....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piye

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Firstoff "Fanboy" is not just internet lingo...There are biased announcers that exibit the same thing at times.....

If you actually believe that I have only seen one of Hayes fights and judge him on that alone then you just add to the Fanboy mentality IMO you are approaching your opinion of Haye with.....

If you actually read everything I said about Haye you would see I never said he always fought like that I used the fight with Barrett as a point on how he can not act if he ever expects to succeed in the HW division and if he is getting overzealous with a guy like Barrett and allowing a guy like Barrett to make him fight that erratic then what will he do when a genuine hard hitting mega HW is in there tapping him...

Fighters like many fans do not seem to realize the power difference between the CW division even the hardest of bangers and that of a 6'5" or 6'6" 245lb HW...or even one at 6'2" and 225lbs...whatis considered a light hitter in the HW ranks can be a power puncher in the CW division....

A fighter taste power he is not used to he can lose control...very easily....add that power coming from a man with skill and control that makes it even more dangerous....

Both klitschkos have that power..they hit hard for even heavyweights...Vitaly is especially brutal when he wants to be...He can also take the punches of the divisions biggest hitters and walk through them....Peter could not phase him..(Regardless of peoples opp of his chin or skill set the man can hit hard)....Lennox who was a huge puncher could not take him off his feet...

Vitaly is skilled...I believe he may have the highest KO% in the sport among champions i know he is over 90%......

He can box...he will be ugly if need be...he has no problem with fighting close nor waiting for the big shot to land......

I don't give a shit if you have seen Hayes fights 200 times and reenacted them in your backyard while drinking beer with your buddies...fact is

Unless Vitaly Klitschko goes in with 2 broke arms....David Haye can not beat the man....

---

Honestly, so you call me a fanboy but then say in the same amount of stupid text that there is no way that this man Vitali can lose right? and every boxing fan knows anything can happen in a ring; in a heavyweight fight a fight can change in one punch but not when Vitali Klitscho is involved is that what your saying? and you accuse me of being a 'fanboy' you just made one of the most rediculous posts I have seen and I don't really feel like communicating with you any more as I am wasting my time.

---

Your kidding me right?...You are going to pout now because I believe in no uncertain terms could David Haye defeat Vitaly Klitschko....

Lennox Lewis could not put Vitaly down...Are you having us to believe that Haye is even 20% the fighter Lennox was at HW?......I made plenty of reasons why Haye can not beat Vitaly...Have you come up with one on why he can?...No you haven't......So it goes to show again your "Fanboy" mentality because you can not debate it...Sure anything can happen in a HW boxing ring but fact is if the two are healthy and met I see no way Haye can beat him...Lets weight it up

Speed--Haye...Though Vitaly is not exactly a turtle

Power--Vitaly

Chin--Vitaly

Size--Vitaly

Reach--Vitaly

Strength--Vitaly

Boxing ability--Vitaly

So please show me where I am wrong....Funny how not one other poster agrees with you on Haye having a chance against Vitaly....

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I agree with you.

haye has no chance against Vitali imo.